Macedonia referendum: Balkan nation fails to approve EU and NATO membership

So from what I have read, the referendum was to approve three things - changing the name of the country, along with EU and NATO membership. The nationalists urged the public to boycott the referendum (as it needs 50%+ turnout to be valid) and thus with turnout at 36% the referendum is therefore invalid.

Macedonia referendum: Polls close name change vote https://t.co/c98fsxAXWB

— BBC News (World) (@BBCWorld) September 30, 2018

So well done Macedonia. Or should I say the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia. ;)

That said, I wonder if this referendum will be acknowledged as the EU has a habit of totally ignoring referendum outcomes.

When has the eu ever ignored a referendum
aside from the catalonian one

Surely if it's invalid it's meant to be ignored

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Originally Posted by dbgtz

When has the eu ever ignored a referendum
aside from the catalonian one

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French...ferendum,_2005
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_...ferendum,_2005
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty...tion_Bill_2008
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_...ferendum,_2015

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French...ferendum,_2005
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_...ferendum,_2005
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty...tion_Bill_2008
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_...ferendum,_2015

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Despite the result of the referendum, on 13 July 2015 the government of Tsipras reached an agreement with the European authorities for a 3-year-bailout with even harsher austerity conditions as the ones rejected by the voters.

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Lmfao

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French...ferendum,_2005
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_...ferendum,_2005
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty...tion_Bill_2008
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_...ferendum,_2015

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first two saw the treaty fail
3rd one they redid the referendum after addressing their concerns, so what's the issue? if they didn't want it they would have voted no again
4th one is the only one where is somewhat stands, but actually reading about it now it is 100% on the greek government for ignoring it

However the fundamental thing you're not realising is the EU isn't a state and it is not them who ignored the voters, but rather their own respective governments. It is not the their role to get involved in individual countries internal affairs.

I think you've watched too many videos where Farage bangs out the same phrase without actually thinking about it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dbgtz

first two saw the treaty fail
3rd one they redid the referendum after addressing their concerns, so what's the issue? if they didn't want it they would have voted no again
4th one is the only one where is somewhat stands, but actually reading about it now it is 100% on the greek government for ignoring it

However the fundamental thing you're not realising is the EU isn't a state and it is not them who ignored the voters, but rather their own respective governments. It is not the their role to get involved in individual countries internal affairs.

I think you've watched too many videos where Farage bangs out the same phrase without actually thinking about it.

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The Constitution "failed" and was re-written as the Lisbon Treaty so it didn't have to face another referendum lol. The EU openly admitted so.

I think you have a very strange idea of democracy. Democracy is what the people want, not the EU getting it's own way every single time.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

The Constitution "failed" and was re-written as the Lisbon Treaty so it didn't have to face another referendum lol. The EU openly admitted so.

I think you have a very strange idea of democracy. Democracy is what the people want, not the EU getting it's own way every single time.

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So what was became something else? Like the EEC -> EU ;) but on the latter part about "the eu" admitting whatever, I could not find a source so you will have to enlighten me on that

Right but you fail to actually counter my point of that it isn't the EU ignoring anything, it's the governments of member states. And quite frankly if democracy is what the people want then what's your issue with the Irish referendums? It's literally the perfect example of taking the issues into account after the no vote, amending as such and then having the majority of the population in favour of it.

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Originally Posted by dbgtz

So what was became something else? Like the EEC -> EU ;) but on the latter part about "the eu" admitting whatever, I could not find a source so you will have to enlighten me on that

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7453378.stm
https://leave-the-eu.com/eu-quotes/
http://www.politicalscrapbook.co.uk/...eat-eu-quotes/

"The No vote in Ireland has not solved the problems which the Lisbon Treaty is designed to solve... The European Commission believes the remaining ratifications should continue to take their course... The treaty is not dead. I believe the treaty is alive." - Jose Manuel Barroso, EU Commission President

"Naturally we are disappointed, it is a hard blow. Nevertheless, I am convinced that we need this treaty. Therefore we are sticking with our goal for it to come into force. The ratification process must continue." - The then-German Foreign Minister

“[Norway] held a referendum [on the EU] that went the wrong way.” - Lord Hurd, former British Foreign Secretary

“If it’s a Yes we will say “on we go”, and if it’s a No we will say “we continue”.’ - Jean-Claude Juncker, President of the European Council

“The substance of the Constitution is preserved. That is a fact.” - German Chancellor Angela Merkel on the Lisbon Treaty

“They must go on voting until they get it right.” - Jose Manuel Barroso, President of the European Commission

“I believe neither the French nor the Dutch really rejected the constitutional treaty.” - Jean-Claude Juncker, Prime Minister of Luxembourg

“Let’s be clear about this. The rejection of the constitution was a mistake that will have to be corrected.” - Valéry Giscard d’Estaing

“The ‘no’ votes were a demand for more Europe, not less.” - Romano Prodi, former President of the European Commission

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Originally Posted by dbgtz

Right but you fail to actually counter my point of that it isn't the EU ignoring anything, it's the governments of member states. And quite frankly if democracy is what the people want then what's your issue with the Irish referendums? It's literally the perfect example of taking the issues into account after the no vote, amending as such and then having the majority of the population in favour of it.

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The direction of the EU is ultimately made by the Commission, ECJ and the member states in the Council of Ministers. If they accepted a democratic outcome, such as the rejection of the European Constitution, then that would be the end of it. No more integration. But as such, the EU and those pushing European integration never accept no for an answer - so the project marches in regardless, known as the rachet effect.

And as for multiple referendums, I find it strange that you're arguing being made to vote over and over again is perfectly fine yet only before we voted to Leave I recall you arguing that we shouldn't be having a referendum (despite the last one being over 40 years ago) as we were too stupid or something to know enough about it. Yet now you're seemingly in favour of more referendums! - until you get a certain outcome.

Ok but 4real this one IS meant to be ignored right that's the point of invalidating it