West to use possible military action against Gaddafi

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...sh-troops.html

We'll use military force to free Libya, vows PM: Cameron plans no-fly zone over country and even threatens to send British troops

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/...62_638x436.jpg
Gaddafi and the supposed saint of freedom, Antony Blair (also Middle East Peace Envoy, doing a good job isn't he?)

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David Cameron threatened Colonel Gaddafi with military action last night, promising a no-fly zone and arms shipments to his enemies. The Prime Minister even suggested he could send British troops into Libya as a peacekeeping force to stop Gaddafi’s henchmen massacring democracy campaigners. At a National Security Council meeting yesterday morning, he ordered military chiefs to draw up plans for the no-fly zone. If Gaddafi turned his air force on the rebels, RAF warplanes would be able to intervene.

Mr Cameron’s dramatic move, which may come to define his premiership, came on the day that papers revealed UK forces have trained Libyan troops in Britain and Gaddafi’s son Saif repeated his pledge that the regime would ‘fight to the last bullet’. In another hard-hitting move intended to force Gaddafi to step down, the Pentagon started moving warships in preparation to police a no-fly zone and world leaders imposed a raft of diplomatic and financial sanctions.

Meanwhile, former Prime Minister Tony Blair was condemned for ‘dodgy dealing’ that led to the now infamous ‘deal in the desert’ with Gaddafi in 2004. Mr Cameron’s intervention was designed to pile the pressure on Gaddafi to quit – an outcome many had expected already. But, while the dictator has lost control of much of his country, he still remains in charge of Tripoli, the capital and home to a third of Libya’s people.

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http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/...30_640x326.jpg

Tut tut it didn't take him long to turn into the heir to Blair, but then again we do need to bring freedom and democracy to the oil wells that are placed in Libya do we not? this is none of our business and the idea of us becoming involved is utterly ridiculous, our forces are already utterly overstretched fighting the pointless war in Afghanistan which will result in the same outcome as the British imperial mission there many many decades ago (100+ years) and the same result which met the Soviets; failure.

No 'no fly zones', no military action and lets keep our noses out of it. We haven't got the money, we haven't got the equipment and we haven't got the justification to police the world as the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan show. This comment made me laugh, and its spot on concerning the wests foreign policy in recent years;

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Originally Posted by Mail comment

Brilliant. So we sell arms to the bad guy and now we're going in against them. Where have I heard that before... oh yes, and i think we know how that went.

- Tim, Sydney, Ex UK

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And as for anyone thinking this is a good course of action concerning Libya, when are you signing up then?

Thoughts?

God dammit Cameron is all I can say.

If he starts a war I'm going to egg his house this time.

I can't see what this has to do with us, at least with Afghanistan/Iraq they played up the fact that massive terrorist organisations were based there etc., but surely we can't claim the same necessity over the homeland of TWO terror suspects (Lockerbie bombings) so there really are no grounds for an intervention. Also I know it's the Guardian but still this article is quite interesting along with nearly all of the comments being in agreement with the sentiments published - namely, that a Western intervention would mean far heavier fighting from all angles and prolong what isn't suspected to be a particularly long seige on Tripoli as far as wars and revolutions go

I wonder what David Cameron would do if Iraq came here with their millatry because of the teen protests going out of control.

lol, so hes cutting down the defense and then plans on war?

Hopefully just a threat more than anything

I agree with this :S They are massacaring innocent people over there, and if we don't stop it, who will?

I think essentially most, or all of wars over the last century have been for the right reasons - or at least, what we were told.

World War 1 - to honour a treaty (with Belgium)
World War 2 - To dislodge an evil dictator and secure Europe
Afghanistan/Iraq - To dislodge an evil dictator and secure peace in the region, along with fighting terrorism.

This is along the same lines as the previous 2, and I don't really see what the fuss is about. We may not be Police of the world, but I firmly believe that if another nation requires our help to bring democracy and peace - we should help. Gadaffi is a deluded tyrant and should be removed asap. If we need to help, so be it. This won't be another Iraq or Afghanistan, the revolutionaries just need the extra man power and better equipment. If we do go on, we'd been in and out within a few months AT THE MOST.

It may not be our direct problem, but if we want a peaceful world, sometimes you have to go and help out in places it doesn't concern you.

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Originally Posted by Conservative,

I think essentially most, or all of wars over the last century have been for the right reasons - or at least, what we were told.

World War 1 - to honour a treaty (with Belgium)
World War 2 - To dislodge an evil dictator and secure Europe
Afghanistan/Iraq - To dislodge an evil dictator and secure peace in the region, along with fighting terrorism.

This is along the same lines as the previous 2, and I don't really see what the fuss is about. We may not be Police of the world, but I firmly believe that if another nation requires our help to bring democracy and peace - we should help. Gadaffi is a deluded tyrant and should be removed asap. If we need to help, so be it. This won't be another Iraq or Afghanistan, the revolutionaries just need the extra man power and better equipment. If we do go on, we'd been in and out within a few months AT THE MOST.

It may not be our direct problem, but if we want a peaceful world, sometimes you have to go and help out in places it doesn't concern you.

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So you'd be prepared to go and fight in Iraq/Afghanistan am I right?

A war is only worth it if you are willing to go yourself and in the knowledge that you may die in the process.

And also, in terms of getting rid of dictators - China next then boys? (oh no I forgot, China can defend itself and give us a smack in the face back!)

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Originally Posted by The Don

I agree with this :S They are massacaring innocent people over there, and if we don't stop it, who will?

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Are you planning to sign up anytime soon?

I'm always amazed that the people wanting to go sorting the business of other countries are the ones who happen not to be in the armed forces themselves/have their lines put on the line - why should we police the world, thats one of the exact reasons why 9/11 occured in the first place because the United States has military bases all over the world to sustain its 'empire'.

But morals aside also on whether you think we should or shouldn't, face the fact; the west cannot afford it.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

So you'd be prepared to go and fight in Iraq/Afghanistan am I right?

A war is only worth it if you are willing to go yourself and in the knowledge that you may die in the process.

And also, in terms of getting rid of dictators - China next then boys? (oh no I forgot, China can defend itself and give us a smack in the face back!)



Are you planning to sign up anytime soon?

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I can't for health reasons, but if I could then if I was asked to - yes I would sign up. I wouldn't do it as a first-choice career but if I asked to for the national interest (if I could) I would fight.

And China isn't a dictatorship in which tonnes of innocent people are slaughtered, although I agree China isn't the best at these kind of things.

Isn't Big Daddy Gaddy the only reason Libya's not been an utter pile of toilet filler like so many other north African countries? Besides, he looks like Mufasa how can you not like him

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Originally Posted by Conservative,

I can't for health reasons, but if I could then if I was asked to - yes I would sign up. I wouldn't do it as a first-choice career but if I asked to for the national interest (if I could) I would fight.

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(Medical reasons aside) you don't need to be asked in order to fight, just because you haven't been drafted doesn't mean you cannot just sign up if its such an issue to you. The usual response of 'if i'm asked I will' is a sidestep, because if you are called up you are not given the choice in the first place. Whenever you think of a war, think 'would I go myself' - if the answer is no, then the war isn't worth it and its a question our politicians 'the chickenhawks' need to ask themselves or ask if they feel their sons would be worth the sacrifice.

Strangely enough if they did ask that question, I don't think we'd be in Iraq/Afghanistan let alone contemplating Libya.

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Originally Posted by Conservative,

And China isn't a dictatorship in which tonnes of innocent people are slaughtered, although I agree China isn't the best at these kind of things.

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China has an estimated one million people in political prisoner camps, if you want to worry about dictatorships - worry about China.

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Originally Posted by FlyingJesus

Isn't Big Daddy Gaddy the only reason Libya's not been an utter pile of toilet filler like so many other north African countries? Besides, he looks like Mufasa how can you not like him

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Yeah, and we supported Big Daddy Gaffy just as we did with Saddam Hussein, Osama Bin Laden, Hosni Mubarak, Ben Ali, Robert Mugabe........ the list goes on and on. I mean, I personally think we should trade with everyone regardless and mind our own business, but the people who run the west preach democracy and freedom but not to their puppet dictators.

We then all wonder, why are we so hated?

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

(Medical reasons aside) you don't need to be asked in order to fight, just because you haven't been drafted doesn't mean you cannot just sign up if its such an issue to you. The usual response of 'if i'm asked I will' is a sidestep, because if you are called up you are not given the choice in the first place. Whenever you think of a war, think 'would I go myself' - if the answer is no, then the war isn't worth it and its a question our politicians 'the chickenhawks' need to ask themselves or ask if they feel their sons would be worth the sacrifice.

Strangely enough if they did ask that question, I don't think we'd be in Iraq/Afghanistan let alone contemplating Libya.



China has an estimated one million people in political prisoner camps, if you want to worry about dictatorships - worry about China.



Yeah, and we supported Big Daddy Gaffy just as we did with Saddam Hussein, Osama Bin Laden, Hosni Mubarak, Ben Ali, Robert Mugabe........ the list goes on and on. I mean, I personally think we should trade with everyone regardless and mind our own business, but the people who run the west preach democracy and freedom but not to their puppet dictators.

We then all wonder, why are we so hated?

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At least China doesn't go round open firing on innocent civilians.

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Originally Posted by Conservative,

At least China doesn't go round open firing on innocent civilians.

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Tiananmen Square?

Or what about Operation Shock and Awe which was used during the Iraq war?

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Originally Posted by Conservative,

At least China doesn't go round open firing on innocent civilians.

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Have you not seen Mulan


oh yeah and Tiananmen Square I guess that was pretty harsh too

Oh yeah forgot about Tiannaman square :l

Oh well, I still believe that if we can, we should be bringing peace and democracy to everyone we can.

What because we do it so well lol

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Originally Posted by Conservative,

Oh yeah forgot about Tiannaman square :l

Oh well, I still believe that if we can, we should be bringing peace and democracy to everyone we can.

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Indeed, and the best way we can do that is through non-interventionalism - by setting an example to the rest of the world and not supporting these dictators through foreign aid (which you yourself wanted to retain) and cheap arms deals in return for faked support on the 'war on terror'. We heard Gaddafi yesterday say how the west has betrayed him, and yes he is right. To support a regime for decades and then, when that regime is in trouble for us to invade it and claim 'oh yes, we want you to be free' is pure hypocrisy.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...sh-troops.html

We'll use military force to free Libya, vows PM: Cameron plans no-fly zone over country and even threatens to send British troops

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/...62_638x436.jpg
Gaddafi and the supposed saint of freedom, Antony Blair (also Middle East Peace Envoy, doing a good job isn't he?)




http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/...30_640x326.jpg

Tut tut it didn't take him long to turn into the heir to Blair, but then again we do need to bring freedom and democracy to the oil wells that are placed in Libya do we not? this is none of our business and the idea of us becoming involved is utterly ridiculous, our forces are already utterly overstretched fighting the pointless war in Afghanistan which will result in the same outcome as the British imperial mission there many many decades ago (100+ years) and the same result which met the Soviets; failure.

No 'no fly zones', no military action and lets keep our noses out of it. We haven't got the money, we haven't got the equipment and we haven't got the justification to police the world as the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan show. This comment made me laugh, and its spot on concerning the wests foreign policy in recent years;



And as for anyone thinking this is a good course of action concerning Libya, when are you signing up then?

Thoughts?

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Totally wrong impression of Tony Blair again. He knew exactly who he was dealing with and was the only person that persuaded Gadaffi to give up his WMD and let the inspectors in. You going to criticise this too?. This guy has been in power under successive governments and I thought you were the last person to agree to invade a country purely for a 'regime' change. Tell me is Iran a better country since the Shar went or is it just the same oppressive one party state? It is worrying that they have been threatened with military action so soon.

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

Totally wrong impression of Tony Blair again. He knew exactly who he was dealing with and was the only person that persuaded Gadaffi to give up his WMD and let the inspectors in. You going to criticise this too?. This guy has been in power under successive governments and I thought you were the last person to agree to invade a country purely for a 'regime' change. Tell me is Iran a better country since the Shar went or is it just the same oppressive one party state? It is worrying that they have been threatened with military action so soon.

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Antony Blair does not believe in freedom and democracy across the world hence his support for dictators such as Gaddafi (of which Peter Mandelson was also very close to his son). If he really did believe in democracy/freedom for the Arab world, he would not support the likes of Gaddafi and would order immediate military action/cut off all links with these people. But as usual, its only anti-western regimes which take a hit to the stomach because they won't do our bidding (such as have U.S. military bases on their soil). If you want to police the world and preach freedom/democracy then you cannot just target anti-western regimes. Why do you think we are so hated Rosie? because we are hypocrites.

I didn't agree with regime change and I still don't, i'm not arguing for us to invade Libya I am arguing against it. And as for Iran, like it or not the Iranian government does appear to be elected (also done by western polling organisations) see here; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian..._Organizations

I'd also add, if we do invade - I look forward to seeing you signing up.

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

Totally wrong impression of Tony Blair again. He knew exactly who he was dealing with and was the only person that persuaded Gadaffi to give up his WMD and let the inspectors in. You going to criticise this too?. This guy has been in power under successive governments and I thought you were the last person to agree to invade a country purely for a 'regime' change. Tell me is Iran a better country since the Shar went or is it just the same oppressive one party state? It is worrying that they have been threatened with military action so soon.

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Blair = War criminal. No questions.

But until now Gadaffi has been fairly popular and as stated Libya has been prosperous. However if the people want him out, who are we to say no? It had nothing to do with Blair - the people were happy with Gadaffi, Blair has no part in this. But now the people are not, they want him out, and that seems to be for the best considering Gadaffi is so disillusioned, saying his people love him.

Did you write the sentence below the picture? If so, lol at calling Tony Blair Antony. Just because no one ever, ever calls him by his whole name.

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I think we should keep our noses out - I couldn't give two ***** if Libya is in trouble to be honest - why not sort out this country and give the military (more specifically the RAF) the money and equipment they need, before spending loads on something THAT DOES NOT AFFECT US.

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Originally Posted by Milestone

Did you write the sentence below the picture? If so, lol at calling Tony Blair Antony. Just because no one ever, ever calls him by his whole name.

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I refuse to call him by his PR-introduced name, remember 'Call me Tone' - no thanks Antony. I just find the man and his inner circle repulsive.

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Originally Posted by Milestone

I think we should keep our noses out - I couldn't give two ***** if Libya is in trouble to be honest - why not sort out this country and give the military (more specifically the RAF) the money and equipment they need, before spending loads on something THAT DOES NOT AFFECT US.

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Amen to that.

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Originally Posted by Conservative,

if the people want him out, who are we to say no?

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Who are we to say anything :S it's not our country. People here didn't like Brown being in charge but we didn't expect the armed forces of other countries to come in and destroy the place

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

I refuse to call him by his PR-introduced name, remember 'Call me Tone' - no thanks Antony. I just find the man and his inner circle repulsive.

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Was he ever referred to as Antony before his campaigns?

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Originally Posted by FlyingJesus

Who are we to say anything :S it's not our country. People here didn't like Brown being in charge but we didn't expect the armed forces of other countries to come in and destroy the place



Was he ever referred to as Antony before his campaigns?

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A) As much I'd love to be able to say he was - he wasn't a dictator clinging on to power.
B) We didn't start a revolution to get him out.
C) If we did - the USA probably would've helped if big names called for it.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

Antony Blair does not believe in freedom and democracy across the world hence his support for dictators such as Gaddafi (of which Peter Mandelson was also very close to his son). If he really did believe in democracy/freedom for the Arab world, he would not support the likes of Gaddafi and would order immediate military action/cut off all links with these people. But as usual, its only anti-western regimes which take a hit to the stomach because they won't do our bidding (such as have U.S. military bases on their soil). If you want to police the world and preach freedom/democracy then you cannot just target anti-western regimes. Why do you think we are so hated Rosie? because we are hypocrites.

I didn't agree with regime change and I still don't, i'm not arguing for us to invade Libya I am arguing against it. And as for Iran, like it or not the Iranian government does appear to be elected (also done by western polling organisations) see here; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian..._Organizations

I'd also add, if we do invade - I look forward to seeing you signing up.

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If you feel that Iran is an democracy then so be it. I don't. It's people are totally oppressed Please also don't use silly arguments that if I agree with invasion I should sign up. That is just so crass and naive and comments like that belong in the playground. So are you saying that Tony Blair didn't persuade Gadaffi to give up WMD and let the inspectors in? As you say you find him 'repulsive' and don't give him credit for anything. Luckily lots of other people do.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

So you'd be prepared to go and fight in Iraq/Afghanistan am I right?

A war is only worth it if you are willing to go yourself and in the knowledge that you may die in the process.

And also, in terms of getting rid of dictators - China next then boys? (oh no I forgot, China can defend itself and give us a smack in the face back!)



Are you planning to sign up anytime soon?

I'm always amazed that the people wanting to go sorting the business of other countries are the ones who happen not to be in the armed forces themselves/have their lines put on the line - why should we police the world, thats one of the exact reasons why 9/11 occured in the first place because the United States has military bases all over the world to sustain its 'empire'.

But morals aside also on whether you think we should or shouldn't, face the fact; the west cannot afford it.

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Robbieg is always prepared.. I just need to fit those turrets onto his wheelchair though

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

If you feel that Iran is an democracy then so be it. I don't. It's people are totally oppressed Please also don't use silly arguments that if I agree with invasion I should sign up. That is just so crass and naive and comments like that belong in the playground. So are you saying that Tony Blair didn't persuade Gadaffi to give up WMD and let the inspectors in? As you say you find him 'repulsive' and don't give him credit for anything. Luckily lots of other people do.

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Tony Blair is repulsive. I was too young to remember him persuading Gadaffi to give up WMD or letting inspectors but doesn't change the fact Tony Blair is a war criminal and I don't trust anything him or his supporters say.

I agree with you on Iran though. But it IS democratically elected, it is still a total state of oppression and I think that their leader (his name has escaped my mind) should be removed from power. He is a lunatic. But it doesn't change the fact he is democratically elected and therefore he is actually legitimately there, unless it can be proven he used force to win the election, which I doubt it can be.

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Originally Posted by Stephen!

Robbieg is always prepared.. I just need to fit those turrets onto his wheelchair though

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Lol Stephen :')

Yay, another war we pointlessly enter into! Aren't the Libyans dealing with already? The civilians tends to be taking over towns quicker than what any military action could do. The US and the UK should keep their greasy hands away from action that doesn't concern them.

War, no. Enforced no-fly zone with the co-op of other countries, perhaps but it'll need careful planning.

I dont understand why Britain always sticks their nose into other peoples business, much like America. Why dont they just let that country get on with it, the country is already dealing with it, surely you cant make the same mistake twice after what went on in Iraq/Afghanistan? Its just stupid and annoying, not only are they getting involved in something that doesnt affect them what so ever, but other countries will point the finger at Britain and laugh. There is no need to get involved, otherwise it will turn into America, sticking their noise in everybodies business.

I dont see other countries doing that, they may do it ever so often, but thats in very rare, extreme circumstances, Britain always does it. Why?

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Originally Posted by Communist

I dont understand why Britain always sticks their nose into other peoples business, much like America. Why dont they just let that country get on with it, the country is already dealing with it, surely you cant make the same mistake twice after what went on in Iraq/Afghanistan? Its just stupid and annoying, not only are they getting involved in something that doesnt affect them what so ever, but other countries will point the finger at Britain and laugh. There is no need to get involved, otherwise it will turn into America, sticking their noise in everybodies business.

I dont see other countries doing that, they may do it ever so often, but thats in very rare, extreme circumstances, Britain always does it. Why?

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A fair portion of our oil come from that region, keep that in mind

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Originally Posted by Technologic

A fair portion of our oil come from that region, keep that in mind

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Yes, but then again there are other ways that you can tackle the oil problem aren't there? Plus, seeming as the country is already dealing with the problem, theres just no need to get involved.

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

If you feel that Iran is an democracy then so be it. I don't. It's people are totally oppressed Please also don't use silly arguments that if I agree with invasion I should sign up. That is just so crass and naive and comments like that belong in the playground. So are you saying that Tony Blair didn't persuade Gadaffi to give up WMD and let the inspectors in? As you say you find him 'repulsive' and don't give him credit for anything. Luckily lots of other people do.

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A war is only worth it if you yourself are prepared to go, the fact you are so shy to sign up to Afghanistan/would not sign up to serve in Libya shows to me that like our politicians, you expect other peoples children to die for your causes and your wars - I would sign up if there was a Falklans-type war tommorow to defend British territory from an aggressor and if I refrained from signing up I would know in my heart that I didn't really agree with the war.

I've just shown you poll results, if I said 'no I don't think Labour actually won that much of the vote' you would simply make me out to be mad. The polling shows that he won the election more or less fairly in Iran which is more than can be said for western supported regimes of Egypt, Tunisia, Saudi Arabia and Libya. The same goes for Hamas in Palestine - you may not like the regimes or their stances/political views, but like it or not these governments do appear elected. I simply don't know what to make out concerning Iran, as the words of Ahmadinejad have been twisted by the western world and its media (remember 'wipe Israel off the map'? - he never even said that, so I simply do not know who to believe and after the Blair claims of WMD in Iraq, what reason do I have for believing Blair over Ahmadinejad?).

As for Antony Blair, no I do not feel that paying the tyrant Gaddafi in terms of cheap arms/foreign aid in order to prevent him acquiring WMD is a 'heroic' stance at all. There is nothing nice or good that shines from Blair, he his a compulsive liar with the blood of many many people on his hands. His famed peace concerning Ireland was also a sham, he gave in to terrorists (as did Thatcher I will add) and now they run the government of Northern Ireland while Blair himself pranced around the world espousing the war on terror and how we will never give in to the terrorists.

What is so good about Blairs hypocrisy concerning foreign affairs? do you not understand that this is why we are so hated?

From what I've read, it sounds to me like they're doing well without our help, taking over cities. In fact, I read that they took out a plane? I also read that they fired on a rescue truck because they thought it was Gaffadi's supporters/hired mercenaries coming to attack them. In other words, it'd possibly be risking lives unneccessarily when they're doing fine on their own!

Despite that, in a business sense, they seem to be doing well so what if they win and turn on the West for standing by while Gaffadi ruled with his iron fist? We could end up with another Anti-west country and despite what you say about it having no benefits for Britain, I also read somewhere that oil prices have increased by 2% since the fighting broke out, which is surely a drain on the ordinary British citizen. It'd be more beneficial to help out and strike up a friendship and reap the benefits. Doesn't really sound like a friendship when you just take the benefits but... that's business I suppose.

Sir John Major (former Prime Minister) now warning against possible mustard gas attacks by Gaddafi, in total agreement with the comment below;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...s-warning.html

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Originally Posted by Telegraph comment

jimdigritz - Today 01:50 PM

What's this I read?

Despotic mid-east dictator has WMDs and is willing to use them.

The US & UK feel obliged to enforce a regime change.

The country happens to have massive oil supplies.

All sounds very familiar...

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In reality we aren't all that bothered about chemical attacks on innocent people (only when its our enemies/people who fall out of favour), because it wasn't that long ago that Israel used white phosphorus on the people of Gaza which is not to mention the Israeli WMD programme which it denies existing when we all know that it does thanks to photo evidence.

But shhh about that one!!!

"We think we have the right to enforce democracy, when we're weakening ours every day; what hypocrisy!"

http://www.smartlyrics.com/Song68706...an-lyrics.aspx

Enter Shikari! :D

Pretty much sums up my thoughts.

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Originally Posted by Conservative,

If we do go on, we'd been in and out within a few months AT THE MOST.

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That's what we said about World War One.
And Afghanistan.
And Iraq.

Just sayin', Libya is a powerful country because we decided it'd be fun to sell most of our arms to them.

Not sure why i'm telling you this, but it's always fun to laugh at yourself.
Usually I'm quite an up to date person, but today when someone said 'what should we do about Gaddafi' I replied, 'Sorry, I've never watched Lord of the Rings'
feel free to laugh ):