The rep thing is silly now.. to be honest it was people getting wound up over a few blocks of green because they (and myself) were probably bored and had nothi9ng better to do. Most accept it now!
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The rep thing is silly now.. to be honest it was people getting wound up over a few blocks of green because they (and myself) were probably bored and had nothi9ng better to do. Most accept it now!
Do you know how many times that utterly ridiculous and unthought out statement has been debunked in this week alone? :eusa_wallQuote:
Originally Posted by -Xiangu-
I also like how he completely destroys what he says when he says "+rep." Also, he hasn't been on here to long enough to understand the issues "/Quote:
Originally Posted by 01101101entor
We're not different, and we're not superior. However somehow, some way, there has become a divide where if you're Habbox Staff in a high position you must have automatically sucked your way up there or have no life or be corrupt or be up yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by 01101101entor
There's a Habbox Staff Spam Section type thing.
I definitely agree with the text in bold, but that's largely because the mature members opted to move on. We can't exactly force our members to stay when they feel they have outgrown Habbox.
Honestly, I would have 0 objections to bringing back the notes system. It would mean members wouldn't get notified. But honestly, if people want notes back, bring 'em back. With the stipulation that you can't complain once they are brought back :PQuote:
Originally Posted by GommeInc
Like I said, I was referring to the "forum of old" or the "good old days". The 2004 thing was for effect :P Usernotes were very brief, a link, a rulebreak, a date, and a reason.Quote:
The above is aload of rubbish. The infraction system never existed in 2004... Before the infraction system was a much more direct and personal response using notes. The problem with the infraction system, which to be frank, causes more issues than it solves, is it shows you who infracted you and doesn't tell you a good enough reason other than "disruptive/rude behaviour." The note system didn't tell you that you were in trouble other than a PM which made it obvious, but the note system made it alot more easier to moderate users, because a moderator could look at names and there you have it, a list of notes detailing issues with the member (if any notes are available).
You're absolutely right. And I think that's wrong. However its for a different reason. If I came out and said something rude, the tiniest little thing, sierk would have 22 PMs in his inbox the next morning, all with a link to my post. Members hold staff up to this perfection standard and seem to take a perverse pleasure in finding every rulebreak by a staff and pointing out that they should be setting a better example. The lax environment is gone, not because we ban it, but because our members are annoyed. I had a formal complaint issued against me because I was joking around with someone and banned them for two minutes. Another time I banned a SMod as a joke and someone entirely unrelated issued a complaint about how unprofessional it was. People need to lighten up.Quote:
And if you got banned easily back then (which is still aload of rubbish), how comes myself, Seacat and JackHb are still members when we all were disruptive (granted JackHb and Seacat were staff)? Habbox Forum was far more laid back than it was today; staff could post freely about anything while now they're restricted to make any sort of humour in their posts because obviously you'll get infracted/told off, even when for example, a humourous, appropriate post is looked at as rude and inapproprite, when no one in the right mind would find it offensive, rude or inappropriate other than the moderators, administrators (if they still exist?) and super moderators who lack common sense and reasonability.
[Qipte]No, they're not stricted, they just make themselves seem stricter when infact they're there to look a mess. Most of the rules could be grouped to make one simpler rule which at the same time could be generalised and made simpler. Anything pointless = goes into the pointless post rules, anything rude goes into the swearing, behavioural rules. Why does Habbox have to make new rules out of rules that already existed?[/Quote]
Yeah, well, some of them are a bit redundant, I believe J1MI already took on the task of simplifying the rules and he might be going further with the simplification.
There are staff who can multitask, and plus very few concentrate on the site. I do feel that a lot of the staff have a "do the minimum" mentality, where they do what they need to do to get a decent report and not fired, and assume that's enough. Nobody has a passion for the job anymore.Quote:
Actually, a perfect community would have staff who's main focus is the forum and other staff who's main focus is the site. Looking over the staff list, most of the staff have 2 or more jobs which obviously means that staff member would need more time in their hands, time which doesn't and will not exist.
(A)GMs usually have a larger subject area to focus on. Joshuar manages all things international (although now that all things international have merged, that position is somewhat diminished.) Adzeh deals with all things departmental, assisting the managers, improving departments. Jrh and I deal with all things staff. And 8F8 deals with all things old :PQuote:
This is where Habbox fails most, there are too little staff with too much on their plate. All of the AGMs shouldn't be AGMs, because their jobs are not general. They should just keep to their Manager titles and with those titles (which seems to be the only reason they had AGM in the first place) is to have a say in Habbox matters. In the past, most managers had a say in Habbox issues anyway... If it effected their departments. Now you just get this heap of mess which seems to be staff roles and titles.
A role manager?Quote:
Have you looked into having a Role Manager elected? Because I'm sure one would be able to sort through this heap.
Fair enough, I do expect criticism of everything, but I expect constructive criticism and not a "do it my way or I won't like it at all" ultimatum (which you aren't issuing, but others have.)Quote:
As stated, something is clearly wrong with Habbox that it has become a bit less likeable and for most they only say that because they care about the community they have gotten themselves involved with for a long period of time. Most likeable things would have people criticising it because they have some interest, not all things are black and white :rolleyes:
It was a fairly large jump, it went from 200 to 1000. That was a bit of a shocker to all of us.Quote:
What was it before? Because I believe 500 rep points per rep power would be more adequate. 1000 is a big jump from wherever it was before.
Well, we're considering making the limits more reasonable, with the caveat of taking reputation out of the equation. Otherwise it becomes a neverending circle of you rep me, I rep you, we get higher powers, you rep me, I rep you.Quote:
I used 1000 rep points per rep power because I was of the opinion loads of people had lot, must be my mistake. Maybe having it between 300-800 is better, like 500 rep ponts per rep power with the addition rep powers from posts and membership time?
Perhaps that's the mistake we made.
Its difficult to deal with bullies when they move in gangs 20 deep. There's also the issue of the rep hierarchy (I'm assuming what everything means here since I can't see what you quoted.)Quote:
If people are bullied, they'll report it and then you can take action on the bully by removing a certain amount of rep and/or cautioning them, that is afterall what the caution member group is for... If that member makes a new account or moves to another one, caution them or PM with discussing why they are being total twits.
Rep Council? Honestly the Habbox Council is based off of a 50ish page thread in Feedback, so I can't claim credit. *Apparently* it was what the members wanted. You gonna fault me for doing what the members wanted? :P:PQuote:
The rep council is just another feedback forum with elected members and new sub-forums, in my eyes :P
Heh. Granted I took up a number of jobs. However Help Desk Owner was a job I took on out of necessity, simply because there was the choice of shutting down the Desk or Owning it. I leave the running up to my managers, because I recognize that I don't have the time to successfully manage the desk.Quote:
You don't need to 'belong working,' granted you should be with the large amounts of jobs you seem to have given yourself:
VIPs Editor || Events Manager || Staff Editor || Habbox Help Desk Owner
You should really only have two of the titles... Look at the Help Desk for example, can you really say that is working? Give it to someone else OR quit as VIP Editor and Staff Editor, because Events Manager and Habbox Help Desk Owner pretty much go together. This isa nther reason Management get yelled at often, because they do everything and as you can see, can't do everything.
VIP Editor is a fairly easy job, it simply involves a lot of Customer Support and a lot of grunt work at Christmas. I'm able to handle my jobs, trust me I wouldn't be giving up my fun just to work on a virtual fansite. Although you may find it hard to believe, I have a balanced life :P
800 of them daily? :PQuote:
Most are probably users who have registered a few times and left soon after, which looks like it to me.
I totally agree. But now when I try to stand up for staff, its suddenly favoritism, because we protect our staff to the same or a higher degree than we do our members. When we have a laugh its abuse of powers or unprofessional behavior. Perhaps our mistake is actually listening to those complaints ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by JackHb
A lot of people do come on for very short periods, but we do pick up new members fairly often. We see the 2004s and 2005s certainly, but there are people who've registered from 06-07 who are active in equal amounts.Quote:
And I can't remember who said about how its grown, yes the forum has grown its gained 10,000 more members as I remember it having 20,000 when I was here. Yet how many of them new 10,000 members are active? As I still see a lot of the same names popping up with join dates such as 2004,2005 etc.
Lol I agree. However apparently that's unfair and banning based on prejudice. The forum has become too PC. We should be able to ban for things like that :P Unfortunately we aren't. I wish that could change, but I can't see it happening (after all, if we added in a rule for it, it would be adding to the Nazism of Habbox!)Quote:
It has nothing to do with the size of the forum that it has lost its community spirit, it is down to management and organisation.
I am not blaming current managment or anyone in particular.
Also its down to members, A lot of members who are on the forum now do no good for the forum and should be banned, yeah sarcasm etc is alright but not in every post. Its like they are on this permament puberty moody phase its like f off lol.
If usernotes legitimately has a decent support base (and I trust you to know because you actually realize what usernotes are like as opposed to others who decry the infractions system but are bound to complain about usernotes as well) then I'm all for bringing it back.Quote:
The infractions system needs to be scrapped ASAP imo, what a pile of crap it is. It does no good apart from pushes members and the staff/forum apart from each other.
Bring back the good old user notes and hire more than 8 moderators to mod this forum! :P
That's what was done in the past. Then those bans were construed as biased or unfair, or abuse of powers or corruption. We should see if we can bring those back.Quote:
Originally Posted by MissAlice
A fair point. Perhaps archiving threads wouldn't be that bad of an idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by MissAlice
I have mixed opinions about the chances for success for the council. It was a cause fought for by many of the members in a ginormous thread so we decided to try it. Will it work? We'll see.Quote:
Originally Posted by MissAlice
I think this thread has established two things that everyone has agreed upon.
1) The sense of fun and laid-back community style enjoyment has greatly ceased to be a part of the forum.
2) The staff-member divide is clearl eminent.
We should see what we can do to fix that, since they clearly are issues. However, I agree that they are issues, but some of the examples provided I disagree with. But they are problems that need to be addressed.
No disrespect Percy but I'm so not reading that lol... I'll be here until the weekend.
Also Xiangu, you can't really "leave the forum if you don't like it," it shouldn't really come down to it. I know this doesn't really compare but could you imagine if that was Parliament's answer to us everytime we didn't agree with them?--"leave the country".
You shouldn't waste your time posting massive essays because 9 out of 10 people aren't going to read them. I know you try to help by answering everyone’s questions but it gets so confusing. :P
I agree with JackHb, get rid of infractions. When you receive and infraction it makes you feel like an e-rebel and makes you think that you have nothing to be good for so you may as well break rules and just go wild. (Speaking from experience) Also, people who have permission to give them out get way too much pleasure in it.
I personally think the infraction system is great and cuts out so much work that we used to have to do with the manual pm's and recording stuff in threads etc. I do think it needs some tweaking to work properly though due to it not being as consistent as it should be.
I think the staff do need to get out and about more and that way you also get to see who causes problems and get to see first hand what they are like and not just by the amount of warnings they have. I wish I could post more around the forums but I am aware who is here to spoil your enjoyment and cause trouble and thats probably why you are seeing a few of them getting banned.
Indeed, and because you wouldn't know, you woldn't have anything to complain about other than a PM from a forum moderator.Quote:
Originally Posted by nvrspk4
More than what you get with the infraction system. The infraction system would of been better on old Habbox and the usernotes system would of been better in this generation. Moderators etc don't have a clue what a member has done and obviously wouldn't know every member, so notes on each member would be a hell of alot easier for old and new moderators alike. The infraction system is so basic that a forum which knows each member wouldn't of been an issue, but for the it is now, it is.Quote:
Usernotes were very brief, a link, a rulebreak, a date, and a reason.
This is when you need a good owner and/or general manager who can turn around to the member moaning, stick two fingers up and say "they are entitled to have an opinion much like your one now." Habbox has no reason to be 'professional,' no fansite has. Leave the professional work to the site you've based your site on. Again, management etc should just tell the member moaning about unprofessionalism to grow up and get a sense of humour.Quote:
You're absolutely right. And I think that's wrong. However its for a different reason. If I came out and said something rude, the tiniest little thing, sierk would have 22 PMs in his inbox the next morning, all with a link to my post. Members hold staff up to this perfection standard and seem to take a perverse pleasure in finding every rulebreak by a staff and pointing out that they should be setting a better example. The lax environment is gone, not because we ban it, but because our members are annoyed. I had a formal complaint issued against me because I was joking around with someone and banned them for two minutes. Another time I banned a SMod as a joke and someone entirely unrelated issued a complaint about how unprofessional it was. People need to lighten up.
Is this a task he has set upon himself or has the general management butted in again :rolleyes: J1MI needs to have total control and say in anything on the forum, it is afterall his department and people need to know this. He's already done a few good tasks as far as I have heard and seen, like he is in the process of hiring moderators and hopefully he was the one behind the rule changes. Can he hire administrators and super moderators, or is this something for the meddling general manager and owner to decide?Quote:
Yeah, well, some of them are a bit redundant, I believe J1MI already took on the task of simplifying the rules and he might be going further with the simplification.
I agree completely. If they do a minimal job and have more than 1 job, they should really only stick to the one job and do their utmost best to perfect their tasks. As you have said, no passion anymore. In my opinion, to the 'higher ups', the goal is to get a high-up title, and not do any good, sufficient work to prove why you got that title in the first place.Quote:
There are staff who can multitask, and plus very few concentrate on the site. I do feel that a lot of the staff have a "do the minimum" mentality, where they do what they need to do to get a decent report and not fired, and assume that's enough. Nobody has a passion for the job anymore.
8F8 doesn't work here anymore so he should be kicked out ASAP, unless the general manager really cannot handle his position, which from word of mouth, he can't. I've heard 8F8 has assisted with a few things that MAD has done, or yelled at him. One of the two, maybe both :PQuote:
(A)GMs usually have a larger subject area to focus on. Joshuar manages all things international (although now that all things international have merged, that position is somewhat diminished.) Adzeh deals with all things departmental, assisting the managers, improving departments. Jrh and I deal with all things staff. And 8F8 deals with all things old :P
So is Joshuar's title redundent? Perhaps an administatorial job is something he should be moved to? Adzeh shouldn't be touching the departments, only the managers. Department work is for the Department Managers and the Department Managers report back to the (A)GM with any concerns that they don't have the power to touch and assisting managers is for assistant managers :P And what is all things staff?
Reminds people who their roles are e.g. shouts at MAD when he touches the forum by putting and adding things which should be done by J1MI. Reminds J1MI to his job and not let anyone else do it for him other than given a few ideas from members and ask for opinions. Tells the Department Managers what their duties are etc etc. At the moment, jobs are in a tangled web, or a heap, or any other example.Quote:
A role manager?
That is quite a leap... 500 would surely be better and because no one can buy rep anymore, it'll solve people have too high a rep power.Quote:
It was a fairly large jump, it went from 200 to 1000. That was a bit of a shocker to all of us.
If they do this rep hierarchy, threaten to remove it completely by a caution. New members don't have any rep power so making a new account would be pointless. And don't moderators, administrators etc have the ability to PM more than one person? Send the gang a PM asking what on earth they are doing :PQuote:
Its difficult to deal with bullies when they move in gangs 20 deep. There's also the issue of the rep hierarchy (I'm assuming what everything means here since I can't see what you quoted.)
Was there a poll? It's easier to find out who wants what with a poll with a simple 'yes' and 'no'. A 'don't care' option is for people who don't think. And isn't it better to take ideas into consideration from other Habbo/Forum based councils? Most just turn out to be a glorified feedback forum with members :PQuote:
Rep Council? Honestly the Habbox Council is based off of a 50ish page thread in Feedback, so I can't claim credit. *Apparently* it was what the members wanted. You gonna fault me for doing what the members wanted? :P:P
And what is this manager of the help desk currently doing?Quote:
Heh. Granted I took up a number of jobs. However Help Desk Owner was a job I took on out of necessity, simply because there was the choice of shutting down the Desk or Owning it. I leave the running up to my managers, because I recognize that I don't have the time to successfully manage the desk.
VIP Editor is a fairly easy job, it simply involves a lot of Customer Support and a lot of grunt work at Christmas. I'm able to handle my jobs, trust me I wouldn't be giving up my fun just to work on a virtual fansite. Although you may find it hard to believe, I have a balanced life :P
Rare Values Manager / HxHD Manager / Forum Moderator
Rare Values is a huge feature with Habbox, no wonder the help desk doesn't get the right attention... You need someone who actually has the time to run it and not have another job which is possibly one of the most important features on Habbox. No offense necessary to Immenseman, because it's not his fault he has been given two important Habbo related tasks.
Anyhoo, surely it would be easier for you and the departments you're managing if you spread the work load? Owner of the Help Desk doesn't mean anything other than you own the room, you have a manager to run that. But Staff Editor which, reflecting on it, probably is like a Staff Role Manager, is kind of a big task along side Events Manager. You definitely do a good job with VIP Editor so I won't criticise you on that department :P
Then you have to take into account how many of the members are active for about 1 to 2 weeks :PQuote:
800 of them daily? :P
Damn, the posts are just getting longer and longer aren't they?
I agree with Nvr and Gom, all the jobs should just be focused on one thing, not trying to juggle everything. It's almost liuke a failing company with people doing more they are supposed to. The thing is habbox isn't paying any managers or staff, so the don't need to worry about hiring more to do all the jobs! People who are trusted and have been here should be approached and requested to do the jobs.
Something that's crossed my mind recently is the amount of posts jrh makes saying "I wish I could change x, y and z" when he is an AGM. Surely he has the power to enforce these changes, or at the very least put the ideas forward and argue them with higher management?
Jrh, what exactly is your job?