Uh huh, so you'd be the sort to throw your toys out of a pram because another person does it? That's what you're effectively saying. I'd rather be the better person and not do anything of the sort, or support it in any way possible, than be exactly like them. An eye for an eye and a tooth for a foot never works, if you are trying to better someone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shockwave.2CC
I do think Barack Obama summed things up quite nicely when talking at the 9/11 memorial service at the pentagon.
"As Americans, we will not and never will be at war with Islam"
"It was not a religion that attacked us that September day. It was al Qaeda, a sorry band of men, which perverts religion."
He also added they cower in caves, which I found most amusing :P
I have not misunderstood the answers posted. My point is very clear - that you may not find yourself a reason to stand up against it but other people do - and in a democracy other people have the right to hold an opinion that is differing to that of your own and to stand up against what they see fit.Quote:
Originally Posted by NaughtyNemo
Again you come back to the point that I think fuels the fear of Islam amongst people such as yourself. 'gives terrorists another reason' - listen if somebody is going to declare war against the western world and is somebody whom despises our way of life then they are going to wage war against us regardless. What I do think you are suggesting though, is that by this book burning (an act of freedom like it or not, you know the thing we are supposed to be fighting for?) it will create more terrorists by the mass - if that is the case over a simple book burning then I would put it to you that Islam has a deeper violent element and that fear of Islam and its response to a book burning should not rule our mindsets nor the western world.
And again this is my point, it is incredibly pointless to you and many others to burn a Koran but not incredibly pointless to him and many others to burn one. That is freedom and that is his right under the great document that is the US Constiution.Quote:
Originally Posted by GommeInc
I love my country, the United Kingdom. Many Americans love their country, the United States. We see many often burning the British flag and the American flag yet I respect their right to do that (even in this country and in America) because although I respect the flag and the flag is the symbol of something I love - I know and accept their right to burn that flag, to spit on that flag - to do anything they wish to that flag. It does not anger me when I see them burning the flags of the United Kingdom and United States because many have practical reasons for doing so and more to the point; they have an opinion and a right to express it.
I am afraid that freedom to burn a book is far differing to harming somebody. The law does not state (as with traditional ancient English/British law & US law) that you have a right to not be insulted. The limits to free speech are very recognisable to anybody who values freedom and freedom of speech - the limit is between harm and non-harm.Quote:
Originally Posted by [Jay]
If I were to declare war on Islam tommorow then I should be allowed to declare that (just as others would wish to declare war on Spain, the United States, Argentina, differing races, fatty foods, McDonalds - anything that you can think of). The difference between inciting harm/tension is action, and those who cross that line are the ones in the wrong. At the end of the day, somebody can tell you to go out and murder a cetrain group of people over and over again - but if you carry that act out then it is soley your fault and your fault along as you broke the law, you crossed that line.
It always comes back to this most often, and it's about time people took some personal responsibility. We see the same rhetoric you and others on here are using used when people murder others 'because of GTA games on gaming consoles' - well i'm sorry but the game isn't at fault, it is you. If Pastor Terry Jones declared war on Islam tommorow and said "everyone should now go out and kill followers of Islam, muslims" then it would not be Pastor Jones at fault - it would be those who carried out those acts of violence in the full knowledge that murder is against the law.
To think of it simply, think of kids in the playground; 'well he told me to' - no son, you made that decision and you alone carried that out.
Yes but that's not only physical harm, its psychological harm as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-
Also I am not saying he is telling others to go kill other people, but like everyone has clearly said if he burns the book this will be used as an act which will only fuel the terrorist causing a reaction which could see innocent people die.
I really don't agree with many of your points in many areas, I feel you are a bit to extreme and while you try to make a valid point you fail to take into account emotions, feelings and other people, as a politician you would be great as a humanist you would be awful.
I would also like to point out the protest which was planned on being held by anti war protesters at Wootton Bassett, I vaguely recall you being against this, however if we were to link it to the point you currently are making will that not mean that they have free will as well and were not harming anyone therefore this should have gone ahead?
I would recommend considering the points you make and sticking by them and not changing your opinion to different causes.
Laws and ancient rights do not protect you from being upset over something somebody has said - otherwise we are going to reach the stage where you cannot criticise anyone on anything in fear of upsetting them. We get upset over certain things just as we experience other emotions over other things - that is life and legislation cannot stop that. I am against all forms of thought police, it ruins freedom and destroys democracy.Quote:
Originally Posted by [Jay]
The Wootton Bassett I recall being for that march rather than against (they are perfectly entitled to march there about anything they wish) - what my point was for that is; 1) why are they here in this country in the first place (you can gurantee many of them do not work/are involved in crime) & secondly 2) why is it that at the time that protest looked as though it were going ahead yet the government would instantly without question ban a fascist march.
burning the qu'ran for something al quaeda has done is like burning the bible for something the kkk has done, TROLL.
Does seem that way. It's pointless to burn the Qu'ran but he'll do it anyway for attention and see what the reaction is (strangely, the media following the story would make you think he'd have second thoughts). I hope he loses his title as a priest, because it's common sense he'll be going straight to hell :P You don't need to be a Christian to understand what the good book has to say about this :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Bun
Double posts merged by dinasaw (Forum Super Moderator): Due to forum lag.
So did this go ahead or not? The last thing I heard about it was the Church man saying he was no longer going to do it, then on ITV news it said Burn a Qur'an day is now back on.
At the end of the day; if he feels so strongly against the Muslim religion and Qur'an (being an extremely holy Christian I wouldn't be surprised if he was) then he has every right to burn the Qur'an. There is no law against it but it would create a lot of tension between the US and muslim extremists which isn't what we need right now. However if muslim extremists were to be responsible for the death of any of my family I'd be burning a 10 foot pile of them on bonfire night so it is understandable for Americans that lost family members in the 9/11 attack to be fully supportive of the burn a Qur'an day.
Why? You're gonna disrespect the many millions because a small group of extremists? If you're saying that, then we all might aswell just go around and destroy each others sacred objects. Actually, thats not a bad idea, religion might ceas to exist then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple
firstly, no he didnt go through with it. secondly, he said hes not against muslims, only muslim extremists. his logic for burning the burning is completely faulty. third, why would you? that seems random, eh? its not a bunch of korans that killed your family, the koran didnt tell anyone to fly planes into the twin towers. it was extremists who just happen to be muslim. youll say "oh but they use the koran to justify their ideals", but so do extremists of every other religion. christians have justified killing millions of people through the bible throughout history, but no ones burning bibles. the thing is that even without the koran they would have attacked our country, they use it because of peoples' dedication to the religion and they can brainwash people with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple
and i highly highly doubt that anyone who lost family members in 9/11 would support this, seeing as it just makes more tension between us and the middle east terrorists and makes them want to attack us again even more. doesnt make much sense.
i think people need to move away from the argument that he has a right to do it. yes, he has a right to do it, thats a fact, but thats not what the debate is about. the debate is should he, not can he. people in the middle east don't have nearly the same media that we do, so when they hear that there's going to be a koran burning in america they dont get much else context. they dont know that the very large majority of americans are against the idea, they probably think we all are looking forward to it. the media has blown up this story so much that like it or not, this crazy priest now represents all americans.