Gimmick rock bands & rock stars

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Originally Posted by Thursday

Yeah, and they look very ridiculous doing so. But nobody in Marilyn Manson wears a mask, pretends to worship Satan, and rarely scream. As a matter of fact, Brian Warner aka "Marilyn Manson" (I'm not sure about the other band members) is a Satanist, so he doesn't even believe in Satan.

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Woah... do you think you have all the information or what!
Look up on the religion before you judge man and also read the autobiography The Long Hard Road Out of Hell.

And the thread-starter stated that KoRn were a gimmick band.. I mean I myself, usually only label a band as a gimmick where it's image before the music but in this case I guess I'm going to have to name every single freakin' power metal band a gimmick band. The fact they make good music will never cease though.
By the way,

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Originally Posted by littlewilsy

Any emo band is a gimmick tbh

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Ozzy Osbourne isn't a performer but he has a unique voice, and the guitarists he has had are very memorable too (an honourable mention: the underrated Jake E. Lee).
Slipknot are just a phase for teenagers, like me at one point but it was good because it was a stepping stone to actually coming across good music but many teenagers that go through the Slipknot or any nu-metal phase don't really delve any further into music.

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Originally Posted by Jordan

Some bands like that are lame, I do believe dressing like you have lived in a sewer for years, banging instruments and screaming is lame.

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Now they do put their image before the music, but they do make music.
The screaming is lame, for the fact it's really not my kind of vocals.. but I'm not saying that nu-metal or metalcore type of vocals is wrong or stupid.. it's a way of vocals. It's like someone saying "GOD HE'S SINGING LOW IT OBVIOUSLY MEANS HE HAS NO TALENT AND SINGING LOW IS OBVIOUSLY NOT HARD TO DO".
Slipkno have talent, but ... I mean if you put them up with some of the greatest like they are rated as... they look like mice compared to The Eiffel Tower in terms of instrumental ability.

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Originally Posted by Notorious

They're still a gimmick. Clowns rapping? I'll pass. These guys need to grow up, and I'm including other groups who wear masks/pretend to worship Satan/do nothing but scream. It's ridiculous.

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The most close-minded thing to say.
Okay it's like this "MAN P.O.D. NEED TO STOP PRETENDING TO BE CHRISTIAN AND I'M INCLUDING EVERY OTHER CHRISTIAN ROCK BAND THAT JUST SHAKES THEIR DREADLOCKS AROUND!"
(dare I say it):Obviously even these metalcore scene kids have some slight taste to not listen to recordings of just people screaming.

I'm assuming you mean that you think that it's inaccessible to your ears.
Slipknot is one of the most accessible bands I freakin' know, I mean come on..

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Originally Posted by Notorious

You know the bunch of 'em. Slipknot, ICP, KISS, Marilyn Manson, Ozzy Osbourne, KoRn, the list goes on. Hate 'em. Opinions on these cartoon character rock bands?

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Maybe if you elaborated your post a little more instead of a closed-minded post about an artist's outter appearance, then I would take more time to analyze your point of view and dismiss it anyway.

The only artist out of the ones you've chosen that I truly admire would be Marilyn Manson. Mostly every aspect of his music and his style has very profound meanings that one would not even think of.

"The Golden Age of Grotesque (2003)" album alone has a tremendous ammount of historic meaning to it which many people fail to recognize. The clothes and costumes he wore during the "TGAOG" period are also very much relevant to the time period which it discusses. (1930s-40s)

I would have taken my time to organize a thread on this, but it has come to my attention that the literacy and reading levels of this forum are nothing to brag about, so I'd only be wasting my time.

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Originally Posted by Crono

No. A lot of people think a Satanist means they worship Satan but it doesn't. They're two completely different things. Satanists basically believe they are their own "God", that they are responsible for everything they do and yada yada yada.

Google helps.

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Didn't know that. Thanks for the info.

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Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets

And the thread-starter stated that KoRn were a gimmick band.. I mean I myself, usually only label a band as a gimmick where it's image before the music but in this case I guess I'm going to have to name every single freakin' power metal band a gimmick band. The fact they make good music will never cease though.

The most close-minded thing to say.
Okay it's like this "MAN P.O.D. NEED TO STOP PRETENDING TO BE CHRISTIAN AND I'M INCLUDING EVERY OTHER CHRISTIAN ROCK BAND THAT JUST SHAKES THEIR DREADLOCKS AROUND!"
(dare I say it):Obviously even these metalcore scene kids have some slight taste to not listen to recordings of just people screaming.

I'm assuming you mean that you think that it's inaccessible to your ears.
Slipknot is one of the most accessible bands I freakin' know, I mean come on..

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Maybe I went a little far as to call KoRn a gimmick band. That doesn't take away from their talent, which they have. Of course, there will always be people who say they sold out, but the truth is, they are just maturing in their sound.

The difference is that ICP has an image before music while P.O.D. is vice versa. There are millions of Christians in the world but they don't follow EVERYTHING preached in the Bible. You've probably heard of the rapper Ma$e. He retired from rap after dismissing the genre as 'devil music', only to come back a year ago. This time, his lyrics had no curse words. Some said he was a hypocrite. Fine. However, a few months ago he signed to G-Unit. He went to his old persona of 'Murda Ma$e' and rapped about killing and money, along with cusses. That's when he became a hypocrite in my eyes. Being a religious man WAS his gimmick. He realized it didn't work and went back to what originally made him famous and rich.

I didn't say they were inaccessible to me. Easily, I could download everything they got. However, I'm not interested.

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Originally Posted by SEXYDEATH

Maybe if you elaborated your post a little more instead of a closed-minded post about an artist's outter appearance, then I would take more time to analyze your point of view and dismiss it anyway.

The only artist out of the ones you've chosen that I truly admire would be Marilyn Manson. Mostly every aspect of his music and his style has very profound meanings that one would not even think of.

"The Golden Age of Grotesque (2003)" album alone has a tremendous ammount of historic meaning to it which many people fail to recognize. The clothes and costumes he wore during the "TGAOG" period are also very much relevant to the time period which it discusses. (1930s-40s)

I would have taken my time to organize a thread on this, but it has come to my attention that the literacy and reading levels of this forum are nothing to brag about, so I'd only be wasting my time.

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The outer appearance of the artists mentioned have to do with them being a gimmick. Let me break it down:

Slipknot - Masks. I'm not saying they're not talented as they can obviously play instruments.
ICP - "Rapping clowns." I don't see how they have such a huge following and loyal fans.
KISS - Classic example of a gimmick and great marketing. They made a movie, cartoon, toys, condoms, and anything you can think of that can be sold. Most of their money didn't even come from their music. The paint they wore and over-the-top performances (pyro, blood, explosions) is what most people knew them by, not their music. They are to rock what Super Mario is to video games to what Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles is to cartoons to what the Wu-Tang Clan is to hip-hop. They were all very popular and many products related to them were created. Also, oversaturization and overexposure is what led to their downfall.
Marilyn Manson - I don't doubt his beliefs. His actual image, from the male breasts to the removed rib to his countless publicity stunts, is the main problem. From what I've heard from him, he's an intelligent man but goes about the wrong ways of expressing himself at times.
Ozzy Osbourne - Maybe went too far as to call him a gimmick. But like Ice Cube, he went from feared to beloved. Not a bad thing, just something I noticed.
KoRn - Maybe went too far as to call them a gimmick.

Did Marilyn Manson dress like that for music videos or during the recording of the album? Please explain.

I'd say my literacy and reading level is high and my typing skills are on point. Don't see how you're wasting time by responding. You're the only poster here that has made a good argument.

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Originally Posted by Notorious

The difference is that ICP has an image before music while P.O.D. is vice versa. There are millions of Christians in the world but they don't follow EVERYTHING preached in the Bible.

I didn't say they were inaccessible to me. Easily, I could download everything they got. However, I'm not interested.

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The difference between what you are talking about and what I was talking about is that I was talking about dismissing the band Slipknot because you think all they do is "scream" and pretend to worship satan. It's the equivalent of saying P.O.D. suck because all they do is bible bash, I know for a fact that Slipknot do not just scream so I wonder why you said that in the first place.
You don't really understand how commercial music works do you? Basically every frekain' band on the charts is a gimmick, they pride themselves on their appearance because teenagers think it's cool and don't take the time to actually wonder if there's better music out there but just become instant fanatics. How is a band meant to get ahead of the pack? The answer is a gimmick to make them more appealing. Obviously :rolleyes: .

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Originally Posted by SEXYDEATH

Maybe if you elaborated your post a little more instead of a closed-minded post about an artist's outter appearance, then I would take more time to analyze your point of view and dismiss it anyway.

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Yeah, it looks like he decided to do it then, in his last post. The elaboration isn't that great either.

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Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets

The difference between what you are talking about and what I was talking about is that I was talking about dismissing the band Slipknot because you think all they do is "scream" and pretend to worship satan. It's the equivalent of saying P.O.D. suck because all they do is bible bash, I know for a fact that Slipknot do not just scream so I wonder why you said that in the first place.
You don't really understand how commercial music works do you? Basically every frekain' band on the charts is a gimmick, they pride themselves on their appearance because teenagers think it's cool and don't take the time to actually wonder if there's better music out there but just become instant fanatics. How is a band meant to get ahead of the pack? The answer is a gimmick to make them more appealing. Obviously :rolleyes: .



Yeah, it looks like he decided to do it then, in his last post. The elaboration isn't that great either.

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I just mentioned their masks. Hence "cartoon character rock band". When did I mention that they worshipped Satan? If you're referring to this:

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Originally Posted by Notorious

They're still a gimmick. Clowns rapping? I'll pass. These guys need to grow up, and I'm including other groups who wear masks/pretend to worship Satan/do nothing but scream. It's ridiculous.

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The slash mark indicates 'or'. Slipknot fall into the first category while the other two would describe other bands. It didn't mean the band was all three. Didn't know P.O.D. Bible bashed, though.

What bands would you consider to be gimmicks? I know tons of rappers that are gimmicks and I love hip-hop. It's in a pathetic state right now. The music on the charts is trendy and don't have replay value for the most part. Yes, I understand how commercial music works. A record label markets a band to the teenage population in order to get money. They don't care about the actual music. It's mostly all image. Once in a while there will be a noteworthy artist, like Kanye West. I don't like his music much, but it's different and it has a message. Gimmicks aren't the only way to get ahead. It takes money, too.

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Originally Posted by Notorious

I just mentioned their masks. Hence "cartoon character rock band". When did I mention that they worshipped Satan? If you're referring to this:

The slash mark indicates 'or'. Slipknot fall into the first category while the other two would describe other bands. It didn't mean the band was all three. Didn't know P.O.D. Bible bashed, though.

What bands would you consider to be gimmicks? I know tons of rappers that are gimmicks and I love hip-hop. It's in a pathetic state right now. The music on the charts is trendy and don't have replay value for the most part. Yes, I understand how commercial music works. A record label markets a band to the teenage population in order to get money. They don't care about the actual music. It's mostly all image. Once in a while there will be a noteworthy artist, like Kanye West. I don't like his music much, but it's different and it has a message. Gimmicks aren't the only way to get ahead. It takes money, too.

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Remember you need to EXPLAIN and also be SPECIFIC as to which bands only do this then.
As for the last two options referring to other bands, that's even worse because it means you're dismissing how a whole GROUP! And it proves my point even more so.
And this therefore makes the "P.O.D. only bible bashing assumption" still a valid comparison and you could even change P.O.D. to every Christian rock band because of your group assumption.
I never said P.O.D. bible-bashed ;]
It was a very good comparison with what you were saying.
When you say you realise how gimmicks work that means you should've accepted them by now and ignored them if you get so angered by it and to also not create threads on Habbox Forums about the subject.
You know that it won't make them instantly go away, you can keep wishing though.

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Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets

Remember you need to EXPLAIN and also be SPECIFIC as to which bands only do this then.
As for the last two options referring to other bands, that's even worse because it means you're dismissing how a whole GROUP! And it proves my point even more so.
And this therefore makes the "P.O.D. only bible bashing assumption" still a valid comparison and you could even change P.O.D. to every Christian rock band because of your group assumption.
I never said P.O.D. bible-bashed ;]
It was a very good comparison with what you were saying.
When you say you realise how gimmicks work that means you should've accepted them by now and ignored them if you get so angered by it and to also not create threads on Habbox Forums about the subject.
You know that it won't make them instantly go away, you can keep wishing though.

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I thought everyone would know that a comma indicated 'and' and a slash mark indicated 'or'. The Bible bashing assumption holds no weight. It would if P.O.D. actually did Bible bash or did anything somewhat against that world-famous fiction book. Why can't I comment on the gimmicks? Should I keep quiet? Have you not made threads or posts about something that bothered you? The world would be boring if people didn't speak their minds.

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Originally Posted by Notorious

I thought everyone would know that a comma indicated 'and' and a slash mark indicated 'or'. The Bible bashing assumption holds no weight. It would if P.O.D. actually did Bible bash or did anything somewhat against that world-famous fiction book. Why can't I comment on the gimmicks? Should I keep quiet? Have you not made threads or posts about something that bothered you? The world would be boring if people didn't speak their minds.

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Refer to this

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Originally Posted by Myself

As for the last two options referring to other bands, that's even worse because it means you're dismissing how a whole GROUP! And it proves my point even more so.

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There's no defense against that, you're close-minded to be refusing "others" just because you think it's the cliche thing for them to be doing.

Plus the P.O.D. statement holds a heck of a lot of weight. You are thinking that I believe they do bible bash when in fact they don't, because I'm giving you an idea of how ludicrous the things you say are with an equal comparison.
Slipknot aren't the ONLY people who wear masks, though you were referring to them. So what if they wear masks? Have you got a problem with people representing themselves the way they want to?
As for the "pretending" to worship satan part, that's stupid.. now really that is stupid.. I can also refer back to P.O.D. here, for instance someone could make the assumption they pretend to worship Jesus Christ and they need to grow up. If someone believes in something, even if you think they don't actually believe in it. It's stupid, absolutely stupid to say something like that about them, because the way they would like to represent themselves if they fully announce their beliefs is at stake again.
You're right the world would be boring if people didn't speak their minds and that's what a forum relies on. BUT you sound dimwitted when you speak yours and you should keep some things to yourself.
Next time you make a thread on something perhaps you can supply more information as to why you don't like them rather than a thread that just sounds like another boring poll.


So.. I don't want you quoting a part that avoids explaining, how about these:

• Why did you assume that people "pretended" to worship Satan?
• Do you even know what the religion "Satanism" is about to make this assumption?
• If you do know what the religion is about state what exactly they aren't doing to not be a Satanist.
• Explain how "P.O.D. only bible-bash" or "P.O.D. pretend to be Christian, they should just grow up" aren't the same as assuming the same type of things about a whole group of artists you assumed "just wear masks/pretend to worship satan/do nothing but scream"?

To make things look even less thought out you listed the artists from the very start (Korn and Ozzy Osbourne) to actually not be gimmicks later on in the thread

Haha look at this:

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Originally Posted by Notorious

You're the only poster here that has made a good argument.

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I wonder why you're replying to my posts then, that's a little strange isn't it?
Did you even make an argument in the first place? You don't seem to have enough information to do that.

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Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets

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Originally Posted by Notorious

I thought everyone would know that a comma indicated 'and' and a slash mark indicated 'or'. The Bible bashing assumption holds no weight. It would if P.O.D. actually did Bible bash or did anything somewhat against that world-famous fiction book. Why can't I comment on the gimmicks? Should I keep quiet? Have you not made threads or posts about something that bothered you? The world would be boring if people didn't speak their minds.

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Refer to this

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Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets

As for the last two options referring to other bands, that's even worse because it means you're dismissing how a whole GROUP! And it proves my point even more so.

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There's no defense against that, you're close-minded to be refusing "others" just because you think it's the cliche thing for them to be doing.

"As for the last two options referring to other bands, that's even worse because it means you're dismissing how a whole GROUP! And it proves my point even more so."
Did you mean to type something else after that? The sentence isn't standing by itself. "how a whole GROUP!" Explain what you meant. Anyway, I'll admit I as wrong for calling Ozzy, KoRn, and Slipknot gimmick groups. They may have done things to make themselves gain more noteriety through shock value, but they aren't gimmicks. I still abide by what I said earlier about ICP, KISS, and Manson. There might be be a defense against that if you tell me what was meant by the post.

Plus the P.O.D. statement holds a heck of a lot of weight. You are thinking that I believe they do bible bash when in fact they don't, because I'm giving you an idea of how ludicrous the things you say are with an equal comparison.
Slipknot aren't the ONLY people who wear masks, though you were referring to them. So what if they wear masks? Have you got a problem with people representing themselves the way they want to?
As for the "pretending" to worship satan part, that's stupid.. now really that is stupid.. I can also refer back to P.O.D. here, for instance someone could make the assumption they pretend to worship Jesus Christ and they need to grow up. If someone believes in something, even if you think they don't actually believe in it. It's stupid, absolutely stupid to say something like that about them, because the way they would like to represent themselves if they fully announce their beliefs is at stake again.
You're right the world would be boring if people didn't speak their minds and that's what a forum relies on. BUT you sound dimwitted when you speak yours and you should keep some things to yourself.
Next time you make a thread on something perhaps you can supply more information as to why you don't like them rather than a thread that just sounds like another boring poll.

Ah, I get what you're trying to say. That's actually a good analogy. I was wrong for what I said about them. I know that Slipknot isn't the only band to wear masks. I used them as a primary example. You can say that I do have a problem with that. My opinion is that it's immature. I may have not backed my statements up in the first post but I did later on. I shouldn't have to keep anything to myself, and neither does anyone else. Is there a limit or a rule about what I can and can't comment on?

So.. I don't want you quoting a part that avoids explaining, how about these:
I don't avoid anything in any post and keep it all when I quote it. You can keep assuming if you'd like.

* Why did you assume that people "pretended" to worship Satan? It would be part of a band's gimmick if they are marketed as 'dark' and 'evil'. Makes perfect sense. Personally, I don't believe in Satan or God, so it seems stupid to me.
* Do you even know what the religion "Satanism" is about to make this assumption? I thought I did until Crono informed me. By the way, Google doesn't help but Wikipedia does.
* If you do know what the religion is about state what exactly they aren't doing to not be a Satanist. (above)
* Explain how "P.O.D. only bible-bash" or "P.O.D. pretend to be Christian, they should just grow up" aren't the same as assuming the same type of things about a whole group of artists you assumed "just wear masks/pretend to worship satan/do nothing but scream"? I thought you actually believed that, but I see where you were going with it. Good point.

To make things look even less thought out you listed the artists from the very start (Korn and Ozzy Osbourne) to actually not be gimmicks later on in the thread
Word.

Haha look at this:

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Originally Posted by Notorious

You're the only poster here that has made a good argument.

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I wonder why you're replying to my posts then, that's a little strange isn't it?
Did you even make an argument in the first place? You don't seem to have enough information to do that.

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That was before you actually did make a good argument. You brought up good points and I realized I was wrong about some things. I'll take the L this time, as you should for the "This forum is full of Stans" thread.

How about.. The Smiths. They are legendary.