The difference between a Argument and a Debate

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Originally Posted by Professor-Alex

Okay, before I write anything I'd like to point out that your criticism about moderators' moderation and when/why they close threads should NOT be directed at the moderators. We are following a set of guidelines set out by the habboxforum management. It is our job to enforce the habbox rules using the guidelines set out in the moderator's guide, not to take it into our own hands to make up our own rules or choose when or when not to enforce them. If you have a problem with when/why threads are closed, your comments should be directed at the management team.

As for the point of the thread, I'm sure the vast majority of moderators are intelligent enough to know when an argument is constructive (or a "debate") and when it has turned into a flame war that is no longer about the topic of the thread. If you think a thread has been closed unfairly by a moderator, PM a super moderator and he will ***** the situation. But aside from the out-of-the-ordinary cases (e.g. the one Gomme pointed out) it rarely happens.

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So why did one of the moderators suggest that HE closes threads when HE believes an argument is about to set out? There seems to be some confusion. Also, as it is your job, surely you're more likely to get through the barmy managements beliefs that any negativity shouldn't be allowed. Especially when you don't like the fact you're getting the blame. We wouldn't know, you do, so you should suggest that things are relaxed a little. Even though there are conflicting theories that you make up the rules yourself and the management tell you what to do :D

My criticism about Moderators actions should most definitely be directed at Moderators. Maybe not as a whole, but most of them do. I do not think it's bad you follow orders, however most Moderators take this orders and they enforce them in a rather harsh and silly way.

If you can't choose when or when not to enforce a rule, then you shouldn't be a moderator. I'd direct my comments to the Management team, and I know that from experience they do listen, however I know what they shall say. A manager will not change his mind on a Moderators action, or at least rarely does without a obvious mistake. Humility for those guys is not a strong point, I also know that from experience.

When you say flame war, you mean insulting, yes? If not, then do explain. :)

Thanks for your response Professor, it's appreciated.

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Originally Posted by Professor-Alex

As for the point of the thread, I'm sure the vast majority of moderators are intelligent enough to know when an argument is constructive (or a "debate") and when it has turned into a flame war that is no longer about the topic of the thread. If you think a thread has been closed unfairly by a moderator, PM a super moderator and he will ***** the situation. But aside from the out-of-the-ordinary cases (e.g. the one Gomme pointed out) it rarely happens.

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Debates have a tendency to get off topic because something has been brought up that may have been stronger then the original topic. You can't blame the users for talking about it, sometime or another, the topic may go back on track but if a moderator closes it and we can't post there anymore then what was the point of that thread?

Although you find all the mods to be "perfect" and that they follow the guidelines quite well, you are wrong because this does happen daily and this does happen unfairly as well. I have 2 links in my sig, they both have perfectly reasonable arguments, and yes, one of them got off track but it was a perfectly fine discussion. There was nothing wrong with it and it was in the SPAM section too. :eusa_wall At the end of the day, mods are instructed to look professional but only make a fool of themselves because they don't know how correctly to deal with debates.

Like Pyroka said from the first post, mods don't know the definition of debate and argument. That is why we have this problem on this forum.

Ps. Sorry I butt in :P

Edit: Damn...This forum has harsh standards. You can barely say something without it being over-analyzed.

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Originally Posted by :....:mike:....:

Debates have a tendency to get off topic because something has been brought up that may have been stronger then the original topic. You can't blame the users for talking about it, sometime or another, the topic may go back on track but if a moderator closes it and we can't post there anymore then what was the point of that thread?

Although you find all the mods to be "perfect" and that they follow the guidelines quite well, you are wrong because this does happen daily and this does happen unfairly as well. I have 2 links in my sig, they both have perfectly reasonable arguments, and yes, one of them got off track but it was a perfectly fine discussion. There was nothing wrong with it and it was in the SPAM section too. :eusa_wall At the end of the day, mods are instructed to look professional but only make a fool of themselves because they don't know how correctly to deal with debates.

Like Pyroka said from the first post, mods don't know the definition of debate and argument. That is why we have this problem on this forum.

Ps. Sorry I butt in :P

Edit: Damn...This forum has harsh standards. You can barely say something without it being over-analyzed.

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When it comes to making a point, I think you need to be over-analysed. When you're a MOD, you need to be an analysist and someone who can make decisions. It's lucky they're not a moderator for real-time, like I am. You'll find split decisions are much harder than 5 minute ones. This is one the Moderators themselves will have to learn, not Management.

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Originally Posted by Professor-Alex

Okay, before I write anything I'd like to point out that your criticism about moderators' moderation and when/why they close threads should NOT be directed at the moderators. We are following a set of guidelines set out by the habboxforum management. It is our job to enforce the habbox rules using the guidelines set out in the moderator's guide, not to take it into our own hands to make up our own rules or choose when or when not to enforce them. If you have a problem with when/why threads are closed, your comments should be directed at the management team.

As for the point of the thread, I'm sure the vast majority of moderators are intelligent enough to know when an argument is constructive (or a "debate") and when it has turned into a flame war that is no longer about the topic of the thread. If you think a thread has been closed unfairly by a moderator, PM a super moderator and he will ***** the situation. But aside from the out-of-the-ordinary cases (e.g. the one Gomme pointed out) it rarely happens.

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With respect Alex, it is the Moderator's job most of the time to close the threads and so they 'do take it into their own hands' because they close them. It is up to them to use their judgment on how to interpret the guidelines so the responsibilty firstly is theirs.

Having said that maybe Pyroka could list a few example threads and it maybe something that the Council could look at on behalf of the VIPs and Members if it is a common problem.

I was hoping you'd say that Catzsy. You're one of the Moderators who actually took their time, alot like what mat64 does. Shame you resigned, but it was for the better of members. (I mean the council thing by the way!)

I can only blame power-abusing from Moderators, and being rash in decisions, along with the above reasons. I could definitely get more than a few 'example threads' if it helps.

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Originally Posted by Pyroka

I was hoping you'd say that Catzsy. You're one of the Moderators who actually took their time, alot like what mat64 does. Shame you resigned, but it was for the better of members. (I mean the council thing by the way!)

I can only blame power-abusing from Moderators, and being rash in decisions, along with the above reasons. I could definitely get more than a few 'example threads' if it helps.

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Okay well you can post them here or pm me with them and I can nominate for discussion by the Council :)

Ill PM you when I'm back from downtown. I've actually came up with a few good ideas.. Some of which Moderators would actually agree with, and what I see one or two Moderators doing despite they're apparently banned from doing so.

See you inabit!

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Originally Posted by Pyroka

Ill PM you when I'm back from downtown. I've actually came up with a few good ideas.. Some of which Moderators would actually agree with, and what I see one or two Moderators doing despite they're apparently banned from doing so.

See you inabit!

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Great! The more ideas the better :D

Those Habbo X threads are a great example.

The original one was closed, without any comment. We were having a nice discussion there. The MOD who closed it (who didn't leave their name...) seems to have some sort of phobia of active threads, as if they can't be bothered to moderate them.

Anyway, I created a new one and that was then closed because an existing topic is open... (when it was closed)

So as it is still news, can an admin with common sense please re-open the thread.