6000 british soldiers going to war tonight

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

Give who a break?

I don't want any dead soliders who will lose their lives coming home in coffins through Wootton Bassat for a mission which history shows is impossible to complete or have any real success with. The whole point of history is to learn from it and we're doing the complete opposite, especially the fact when we now have terrorists in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq (because of our own fault) and many other places. Its like one of them hammer games at the fair, you hit one figure and two more figures sprout up. It cannot be won, bring them back home now before another family loses a loved one for a lost cause.

You say 'try' and complete it with success - soliders are not pawns on a chess board which you take chances with, they are real people.

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At last, someone which talks sence.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

Give who a break?

I don't want any dead soliders who will lose their lives coming home in coffins through Wootton Bassat for a mission which history shows is impossibleto complete or have any real success with. The whole point of history is to learn from it and we're doing the complete opposite, especially the fact when we now have terrorists in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq (because of our own fault) and many other places. Its like one of them hammer games at the fair, you hit one figure and two more figures sprout up. It cannot be won, bring them back home now before another family loses a loved one for a lost cause.

You say 'try' and complete it with success - soliders are not pawns on a chess board which you take chances with, they are real people.

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I agree its not a game, but at the end of the day British soldiers signed up for war. They knew what they were getting into and I do hope every single one of them come home unharmed but lets be honest that's not going to happen.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

soliders are not pawns on a chess board which you take chances with, they are real people.

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And so are the people they're fighting for.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

A war that can never be won, the most powerful Empire the world had ever seen (the British Empire) failed there and the Soviet Union failed there aswell. What makes the NATO mission this time around so special?

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The most powerful empire the world has ever seen? It's not the 15th century anymore. The United States is currently the most powerful nation in the world, and due to advances in technology they are the most powerful nation the world has ever seen...

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

Give who a break?

I don't want any dead soliders who will lose their lives coming home in coffins through Wootton Bassat for a mission which history shows is impossible to complete or have any real success with. The whole point of history is to learn from it and we're doing the complete opposite, especially the fact when we now have terrorists in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq (because of our own fault) and many other places. Its like one of them hammer games at the fair, you hit one figure and two more figures sprout up. It cannot be won, bring them back home now before another family loses a loved one for a lost cause.

You say 'try' and complete it with success - soliders are not pawns on a chess board which you take chances with, they are real people.

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There is a way to actually win it, but we will never do it. Because it will not just kill the people we want dead. Yes try, they can only try? They can't just go in and say "YEP WE ARE GONNA DO THIS WITH SUCCESS" when really, anything could happen. I support all NATO troops 100% and I hope they do a good job of it. Many people may disagree with them being over there, but they will not be coming back soon.

So people who keep saying "bring them back now" is wasting their breath. If they could be all back home now, they would be. But all of them men and women signed up to the Army/Navy/Air force.

Nato-led forces say they are making good progress hours after launching the biggest offensive in Afghanistan since the overthrow of the Taliban in 2001.

There were clashes as more than 15,000 US, UK and Afghan troops swept into the Helmand areas of Marjah and Nad Ali in a bid to secure government control.

The Afghan Army said 70% of Marjah had been cleared, while a UK commander said 11 Taliban bases had been captured.

Of course we could win it, but that is not the intention. The intention is to drag it out for as long as possible, just like Iraq, Vietnam and the world wars to name a few. History will continue to repeat itself over and over again and people will remain oblivious.

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Originally Posted by Richie

I agree its not a game, but at the end of the day British soldiers signed up for war. They knew what they were getting into and I do hope every single one of them come home unharmed but lets be honest that's not going to happen.

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Exactly.

These soliders signed up for the army knowing that if called into action that they must go. You don't sign up for the army thinking I won't die. And if you do then you're stupid. If we pull out now then for what purpose did all the soldiers who have already died in this conflict die for? Nothing.

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Originally Posted by Richie

I agree its not a game, but at the end of the day British soldiers signed up for war. They knew what they were getting into and I do hope every single one of them come home unharmed but lets be honest that's not going to happen.

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Of course they signed up for war, and a government only goes into a war when the security of the country is assured to be safe once then threat has been disposed of. This threat will never be disposed of, and is being made worse by our presence in the middle east.

They signed up as members of the military, possible military action should always be expected. However, would you also say that to the soliders in Iraq who were sent to war on a complete lie?. "Sorry lads I know the war was totally wrong and all that and your government lied to you about a non-existant threat, but hey you signed up!"

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Originally Posted by HotelUser

And so are the people they're fighting for.

The most powerful empire the world has ever seen? It's not the 15th century anymore. The United States is currently the most powerful nation in the world, and due to advances in technology they are the most powerful nation the world has ever seen...

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The Anglo-Afghan War in the 1870s, the most powerful Empire on the planet against a small country with no real resources when compared to the British Raj. The British failed to make and progress there in their power struggles against the Russian Empire. The United States is the most powerful state yes, and in the 1970s the United States dropped more bombs on Vietnam than were dropped in WW2 - did the United States win?

A more recent example of how these guerilla wars cannot be won; China in the 40s. The ruling Nationalists with far superior weaponary and man power lost against the Communists who used the tactic of Guerilla warfare. So i'll ask, whats so different now about NATO vs the Taliban?

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Originally Posted by MattGarner

There is a way to actually win it, but we will never do it. Because it will not just kill the people we want dead. Yes try, they can only try? They can't just go in and say "YEP WE ARE GONNA DO THIS WITH SUCCESS" when really, anything could happen. I support all NATO troops 100% and I hope they do a good job of it. Many people may disagree with them being over there, but they will not be coming back soon.

So people who keep saying "bring them back now" is wasting their breath. If they could be all back home now, they would be. But all of them men and women signed up to the Army/Navy/Air force.

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I support NATO to the full aswell, however i'm not going to support a lost cause and sit back and say "oh well it doesnt matter lets just give them the best luck we can" when these people are dying for nothing. These people signed up to defend our country, but defend it from exactly what?

Our presence there makes the whole thing worse, and terrorism will never be destroyed anyway. There are so many examples of previous battles in Afghanistan and around the world which show this just cannot be won.

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Originally Posted by MattGarner

Nato-led forces say they are making good progress hours after launching the biggest offensive in Afghanistan since the overthrow of the Taliban in 2001.

There were clashes as more than 15,000 US, UK and Afghan troops swept into the Helmand areas of Marjah and Nad Ali in a bid to secure government control.

The Afghan Army said 70% of Marjah had been cleared, while a UK commander said 11 Taliban bases had been captured.

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Thats guerilla warfare, they retreat when a major offensive is launched and just return later. Its happened with the Soviets, the British, the Chinese Nationalists and its happening with us right now.

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Originally Posted by Tash.

Exactly.

These soliders signed up for the army knowing that if called into action that they must go. You don't sign up for the army thinking I won't die. And if you do then you're stupid. If we pull out now then for what purpose did all the soldiers who have already died in this conflict die for? Nothing.

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I hate to say it but the fact is they have died for nothing already. Why let more of our soliders die for nothing?

i know this sounds really dumb, but why are they actually fighting out there? probably going to start a ww3

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

Of course they signed up for war, and a government only goes into a war when the security of the country is assured to be safe once then threat has been disposed of. This threat will never be disposed of, and is being made worse by our presence in the middle east.

They signed up as members of the military, possible military action should always be expected. However, would you also say that to the soliders in Iraq who were sent to war on a complete lie?. "Sorry lads I know the war was totally wrong and all that and your government lied to you about a non-existant threat, but hey you signed up!"



The Anglo-Afghan War in the 1870s, the most powerful Empire on the planet against a small country with no real resources when compared to the British Raj. The British failed to make and progress there in their power struggles against the Russian Empire. The United States is the most powerful state yes, and in the 1970s the United States dropped more bombs on Vietnam than were dropped in WW2 - did the United States win?

A more recent example of how these guerilla wars cannot be won; China in the 40s. The ruling Nationalists with far superior weaponary and man power lost against the Communists who used the tactic of Guerilla warfare. So i'll ask, whats so different now about NATO vs the Taliban?



I support NATO to the full aswell, however i'm not going to support a lost cause and sit back and say "oh well it doesnt matter lets just give them the best luck we can" when these people are dying for nothing. These people signed up to defend our country, but defend it from exactly what?

Our presence there makes the whole thing worse, and terrorism will never be destroyed anyway. There are so many examples of previous battles in Afghanistan and around the world which show this just cannot be won.



Thats guerilla warfare, they retreat when a major offensive is launched and just return later. Its happened with the Soviets, the British, the Chinese Nationalists and its happening with us right now.



I hate to say it but the fact is they have died for nothing already. Why let more of our soliders die for nothing?

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Okay let's just sit back and let a fanatical minority take over the world. Where have I heard that before?

They have not died for nothing. About the same number of british Soldiers have died in Afghanistan, or maybe a few more since 2002(8 years), than in 10 weeks during the Falkland conflict and they are welcome in the country of Afghanistan. These soldiers were all given a hero's welcome on return.

Russia didn't win the conflict because they were trying to get rid of the Mudjahdine the moderate people who are now in charge of the country and who had the help of other countries. Russia had no support from the Afghanistan people.

If all countries remove all troops what happens then? What do you think should happen? Al-Qaeda terrorises the world globally. In Afghanistan they have taken to 'suicide' training camps and even bought children from destitute families to be suicide bombers. They rescued about 8 of them the other day.

You may think it is a 'lost' cause but I do think that your comments are quite simplistic and do not address the differences here. There is much more we don't know about than what we do about regarding what is happening in the world. My Dad was helping with a documentary about what Saddam Hussein was doing to his own people for his entertainment. One was putting them head first into a meat grinding machine and other stuff is just to gory to put here.

If Hitler had been left to his own devices god knows what would have happened. Stalin massacred 7 million Ukranians. Other dictators such as Trotsky, Mao and Lenin only stayed in power because of mass murder of millions. The world is just not safe with fanatics like this around. The soldiers signed up to defend our country and are defending it against global terrorism and to say they died for nothing is not showing them the respect they deserve in my view.

I believe in hindsight most people believe that Vietham was a mistake but that doesn't mean all conflicts are and seriously wars from the 1800's bear little relation as to what is going on in the world today.