Muslim community leader who lied about BNP kidnap is illegal immigrant

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Originally Posted by Apeel

I don't think Catszy even posted an opinion, only the list of thuggish activities that the BNP have indulged in. I'd go as far to do that myself, although I've been busy.

And don't act like you're on the moral high-ground by stating what is fair and equal.

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Oh but I do know what is equal and what isnt - as I will explain in the reply to Rosie near the end. You see, here on this forum and in politics in general we have people such as Rosie (perhaps even yourself) and others who post in BNP threads about racism, thuggish behaviour and all manners of things alleged and true to the BNP. Now as I said before; I accept the BNP is racist and thuggish and have made that clear a number of times. My views on equality and fairness have remained the same throughout, no matter what the political party involved beliefs are.

However what I will not sit back and be silent on is the idea that you can all get away with slandering the BNP whilst at the same time preaching the Conservative Party and more so the Labour Party. The Labour Party, Conservative Party and the British National Party all have racist policies which range on immigration, candidate shortlists and membership requirements.

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

I can post in any thread I like Dan and your views are completely one-sided as well. That's politics for you. Just showing that your constant rant about the Guardian would be far more credible if you didn't stick up for the Mail all the time. No moral high ground I just posted facts that the Mail seem to ignore.

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Indeed you can post in any thread but you must expect a reply Rosie, which you often give the impression that you are not keen on, hence why you constantly dish out lines like you just have done such as 'I can post in any thread I like Dan' - yes well lets settle this once and for all, I have never said you cannot post on certain topics. I will also not accept from you or anybody else that I somehow rant about the newspapers, infact time and time again it is me who the one who attempts to divert the topic away from the newspaper issue and onto the issue at hand; be it immigration, political correctness, justice or the European Union. I know what thread you are referring to though, and that was one of the only times I have attacked the Guardian newspaper and why? - because I am sick to my back teeth of the only reply on this forum being 'OMG DAILY MAIL RUBBISH'.

I mean to prove my point you just cannot help yourself can you because yet again in your reply just now you have had another go at the Daily Mail despite the fact the comment was from a member of the public on the comment board, not the Daily Mail. Give the newspaper slanting a rest - its boring, tiresome and repetitive. I will now get back to your post and the actual topic instead of playing on your diversions about newspapers and your right to post in threads which I have never disputed.

I have made it very clear in my post which you seemed to have ignored clearly, you cannot go around preaching about the British National Party and its views or actions (remember Gordon Browns staff calling a bullying helpline because hes that bad? - but you denied it predictably!). You yourself support candidate shortlists based on race or gender from what I remember from the debate we had. Although it didnt really reach its conclusion so i'll bring it up again; you (and others) say the BNP is racist for having had a whites-only membership policy - but the Labour and Conservative Parties either have or support having candidate shortlists based on sexuality, race or gender - so why is the Labour Party so much more on the moral highground than the BNP is?

The difference between my idea of fairness and your own is that I think everyone should be treated fairly regardless of sexuality, race or gender - your idea and the idea of the Labour Party on the other hand is that if you are black, asian, gay or a woman you are more worthy of a position because of them factors - that is not fairness or equality, so dont pretend it is and more to the point; dont speak down on a party (the BNP) which takes the same line of thinking as yourself and your own party but only the other way around.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

Oh but I do know what is equal and what isnt - as I will explain in the reply to Rosie near the end. You see, here on this forum and in politics in general we have people such as Rosie (perhaps even yourself) and others who post in BNP threads about racism, thuggish behaviour and all manners of things alleged and true to the BNP. Now as I said before; I accept the BNP is racist and thuggish and have made that clear a number of times. My views on equality and fairness have remained the same throughout, no matter what the political party involved beliefs are.

However what I will not sit back and be silent on is the idea that you can all get away with slandering the BNP whilst at the same time preaching the Conservative Party and more so the Labour Party. The Labour Party, Conservative Party and the British National Party all have racist policies which range on immigration, candidate shortlists and membership requirements.

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But we don't say anything about the Tory Party, Labour Party etc. being racist? We're criticising the BNP, and I'm not in support of any of the major political parties you 'call out'. I'll ask you this then, if Labour are worse than the BNP then how come there aren't threads about them? Of course, you've shown us sources and I agree with the fact that all of the major political powers have some form of inequality or racial relations.. but if we all do agree on that... then why do we only have threads against the BNP?

Obviously it's in popular political culture that "BNP IS RACIST.", but if the true fact is that Labour, for example, is racist; then why don't we have threads against them? Why don't you raise the issue?

I have nothing against you, Dan, but you do seem to take the elitist point of view sometimes. But I do respect your political dominance over us little pencil pushers. I'm joking of course.

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Originally Posted by Apeel

But we don't say anything about the Tory Party, Labour Party etc. being racist? We're criticising the BNP, and I'm not in support of any of the major political parties you 'call out'. I'll ask you this then, if Labour are worse than the BNP then how come there aren't threads about them? Of course, you've shown us sources and I agree with the fact that all of the major political powers have some form of inequality or racial relations.. but if we all do agree on that... then why do we only have threads against the BNP?

Obviously it's in popular political culture that "BNP IS RACIST.", but if the true fact is that Labour, for example, is racist; then why don't we have threads against them? Why don't you raise the issue?

I have nothing against you, Dan, but you do seem to take the elitist point of view sometimes. But I do respect your political dominance over us little pencil pushers. I'm joking of course.

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That is my exact point - you (as in a lot of people on here and outside HxF in general) all dont say anything about the Labour Party or Conservative Party because you either support them (as is the case with Rosie) or that they are accepted as the oh-so-clean-we-cant-do-anything-wrong-party - this is wrong. We only have threads on the British National Party because we either have people such as Hitman exposing some of the lies attributed to the party which is always hit back by the likes of Rosie who refuse to accept that the BNP might actually be in the right for once or we sometimes have people who attack the BNP and pretend they themselves are the champions of equality and fairness and that the BNP is the only one in the wrong.

I do raise the issue, i've done it before with Rosie and i'm trying to bring it back up again because the last time it got debated it seemingly didnt get through/wasnt agreed upon. I will not sit back on here while people from the Labour Party or Conservative Party attack the BNP for being thugs, racists, homophobes and sexist - when infact they are all as bad as one another.

That is my point; the BNP, Conservative Party and Labour Party are all as bad as one another when it comes to this area and its time people accepted this, rather than dribbling on about the Daily Mail which has no relevance to the topic.

My view isnt elitist at all, its consistent.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

I didn't dispute that the BNP havent had thugs within, as I have said before; the party has a large presence of thugs much like the Labour Party did in the 1980s - you know when they called workers scabs at the picket lines and smashed anybodys face in who attempted to go back to work? As for racism and all of that issue, while the BNP are racist so is the Labour Party but people such as yourself like to post in threads like this acting on the moral highground when you and your party is on the exact level as Nick Griffin and the BNP. You support racial policies, Labour implements them. Nick Griffin supports racial policies, the BNP wants to implement them.

Do not come posting in BNP threads like the guardian angel of fairness and equality, because your views are anything but equal and fair.

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WHY THE HELL ARE YOU SO BLIND AND ONE SIDED?! how do you survive in liverpool with your delusional opinions?!



btw i'm sorry for personally attacking you but you make me so mad man, so so mad!

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Originally Posted by Cod

WHY THE HELL ARE YOU SO BLIND AND ONE SIDED?! how do you survive in liverpool with your delusional opinions?!



btw i'm sorry for personally attacking you but you make me so mad man, so so mad!

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Alright then, make sure you reply to this if you are prepared to be so cold in what you throw at me;

How is the BNP racist or sexist and the Labour Party not racist or sexist when the Labour Party also has imposed women-only candidate shortlists on seats across the country? - my point is, why are the BNP the ones in the wrong and not your beloved Labour Party?

Often you have put Labour in your signature and often you have posted little comments towards me, so now its time for you to respond properly. The most maddening thing of all is when people post little comments like that, but cant seem to dispute the facts so I really am looking forward to a response from you which tackles the question i've posed.

We have also had David Miliband voting for Diane Abbott in the Labour Party leadership contest because she is black and a woman, surely, as David Miliband also now discriminates based on race or sex - he is just as bad as Nick Griffin and his lot?

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

Oh but I do know what is equal and what isnt - as I will explain in the reply to Rosie near the end. You see, here on this forum and in politics in general we have people such as Rosie (perhaps even yourself) and others who post in BNP threads about racism, thuggish behaviour and all manners of things alleged and true to the BNP. Now as I said before; I accept the BNP is racist and thuggish and have made that clear a number of times. My views on equality and fairness have remained the same throughout, no matter what the political party involved beliefs are.

However what I will not sit back and be silent on is the idea that you can all get away with slandering the BNP whilst at the same time preaching the Conservative Party and more so the Labour Party. The Labour Party, Conservative Party and the British National Party all have racist policies which range on immigration, candidate shortlists and membership requirements.



Indeed you can post in any thread but you must expect a reply Rosie, which you often give the impression that you are not keen on, hence why you constantly dish out lines like you just have done such as 'I can post in any thread I like Dan' - yes well lets settle this once and for all, I have never said you cannot post on certain topics. I will also not accept from you or anybody else that I somehow rant about the newspapers, infact time and time again it is me who the one who attempts to divert the topic away from the newspaper issue and onto the issue at hand; be it immigration, political correctness, justice or the European Union. I know what thread you are referring to though, and that was one of the only times I have attacked the Guardian newspaper and why? - because I am sick to my back teeth of the only reply on this forum being 'OMG DAILY MAIL RUBBISH'.

I mean to prove my point you just cannot help yourself can you because yet again in your reply just now you have had another go at the Daily Mail despite the fact the comment was from a member of the public on the comment board, not the Daily Mail. Give the newspaper slanting a rest - its boring, tiresome and repetitive. I will now get back to your post and the actual topic instead of playing on your diversions about newspapers and your right to post in threads which I have never disputed.

I have made it very clear in my post which you seemed to have ignored clearly, you cannot go around preaching about the British National Party and its views or actions (remember Gordon Browns staff calling a bullying helpline because hes that bad? - but you denied it predictably!). You yourself support candidate shortlists based on race or gender from what I remember from the debate we had. Although it didnt really reach its conclusion so i'll bring it up again; you (and others) say the BNP is racist for having had a whites-only membership policy - but the Labour and Conservative Parties either have or support having candidate shortlists based on sexuality, race or gender - so why is the Labour Party so much more on the moral highground than the BNP is?

The difference between my idea of fairness and your own is that I think everyone should be treated fairly regardless of sexuality, race or gender - your idea and the idea of the Labour Party on the other hand is that if you are black, asian, gay or a woman you are more worthy of a position because of them factors - that is not fairness or equality, so dont pretend it is and more to the point; dont speak down on a party (the BNP) which takes the same line of thinking as yourself and your own party but only the other way around.

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No I was merely pointing out the error of the mail which you seem to think is 100% accurate. If you poke at any papers all the time then you should expect it too. Convicted criminals have absolutely nothing to do with the philosophy of the labour party and you are just using a diversionary tactic again which has nothing to do with the main topic of the thread which is the mail glossing over how many of the BNP have been convicted for racism. They are nothing like the labour party - find one of them convicted for racism, please. I also have a right to my opinion even if you say I haven't - the two issues are totally unrelated.

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

No I was merely pointing out the error of the mail which you seem to think is 100% accurate. If you poke at any papers all the time then you should expect it too.

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Point out one example in the history of my posts where I have attacked a paper first.

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

Convicted criminals have absolutely nothing to do with the philosophy of the labour party and you are just using a diversionary tactic again which has nothing to do with the main topic of the thread which is the mail glossing over how many of the BNP have been convicted for racism. They are nothing like the labour party - find one of them convicted for racism, please.

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Racism does, because both the Labour Party, Conservative Party and the British National Party have policies/leading figures who are in favour of sexist and racist policies and methods. No Labour Party members such as Diane Abbott or David Miliband (your next leader who you'll not doubt be voting for come next election) are convicted of racism and why is that? - because they discriminate and say things in favour of minorities and not the majority which is the white population.

This really grinds my gears, you and your party think discriminating against white people/straight people is perfectly fine all in the name of 'diversity and equality' but cannot stand to have somebody do exactly the same just the other way around.

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

I also have a right to my opinion even if you say I haven't - the two issues are totally unrelated.

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Find me one example where I have said you are not allowed a right to your opinion - you see you keep saying this over and over again in every thread as though thats the justification for your side of the discussion but the fact is I have never said anything of the sort.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

Point out one example in the history of my posts where I have attacked a paper first.



Racism does, because both the Labour Party, Conservative Party and the British National Party have policies/leading figures who are in favour of sexist and racist policies and methods. No Labour Party members such as Diane Abbott or David Miliband (your next leader who you'll not doubt be voting for come next election) are convicted of racism and why is that? - because they discriminate and say things in favour of minorities and not the majority which is the white population.

This really grinds my gears, you and your party think discriminating against white people/straight people is perfectly fine all in the name of 'diversity and equality' but cannot stand to have somebody do exactly the same just the other way around.



Find me one example where I have said you are not allowed a right to your opinion - you see you keep saying this over and over again in every thread as though thats the justification for your side of the discussion but the fact is I have never said anything of the sort.

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Yes I will answer your questions in detail later but for now find me one labour party member who has been convicted of racism which is the main topic of this thread.

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

Yes I will answer your questions in detail later but for now find me one labour party member who has been convicted of racism which is the main topic of this thread.

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I have never said a Labour Party member has been convicted of racism, I am saying that the opinions within the Labour Party and the methods of those leading figures within the party are racist and sexist. You are totally ignoring what I said on purpose, my question to you yet again is; why is it ok for Diane Abbott to make comments based on race and sex when Nick Griffin cannot do the same?

Why is the likes of Diane Abbott any better than Nick Griffin in your eyes?
Is it because they wear a red rossette as opposed to a navy one?

Please do tell.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

Alright then, make sure you reply to this if you are prepared to be so cold in what you throw at me;

How is the BNP racist or sexist and the Labour Party not racist or sexist when the Labour Party also has imposed women-only candidate shortlists on seats across the country? - my point is, why are the BNP the ones in the wrong and not your beloved Labour Party?

Often you have put Labour in your signature and often you have posted little comments towards me, so now its time for you to respond properly. The most maddening thing of all is when people post little comments like that, but cant seem to dispute the facts so I really am looking forward to a response from you which tackles the question i've posed.

We have also had David Miliband voting for Diane Abbott in the Labour Party leadership contest because she is black and a woman, surely, as David Miliband also now discriminates based on race or sex - he is just as bad as Nick Griffin and his lot?

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it's not sexism, it's affirmative action, positive discrimination. yes, it's highly criticised but has both it's pros and cons. the bnp are racist 'cos they don't like ethnic minorities in our country, which is completely different? :S

i just get sick and tired of having debates with you when you're so hellbent on reppin' ukip 24/7. you like to see yourself as somebody who is fair and democratic, when really you just want to make ukip look as good as possible. thus, i end up winding you up for my own amusement.