Immigration Minister rules out British ban on burka

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Originally Posted by alexxxxx

emotionally, i feel like they should ban it (especially inside) as it seems oppressive. but in my head i feel like they shouldn't because the government has no right to tell me or anyone else what i can or cannot wear.

In this case i feel that private businesses and public offices should be able to ask people to not conceal their face whilst in the building (security risk) or when to prove their ID - just like you would with someone wearing a motorbike helmet, but banning on the street? in people's houses? no.



it's a cultural thing and i think that it is a barrier to people integrating into mainstream british society and it is beyond me why anyone would want to wear it - even for being modest. you can be modest without having to put yourself away like that.

i don't find it offensive, why should i care what someone else is wearing, nor threatening, it's just weird.

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I agree faces should not be covered in public offices but I understand what you mean except it is more of a case of giving them the right not to wear it. As it has been pointed out by a leading muslim there is nothing in the koran about it so it is not a religious thing but a tool used by some men to oppress their female relatives. I am not saying some do not want their faces covered but even they should see that it is commonsense given the world we live in. The same could be said about forced marriages but the government has intervened on that.

If the Burka is forced upon a woman then it is oppressive, no doubt about that. But we cannot assume this to be the case because realistically it probably isn't and in my opinion it would be equally as oppressive to ban a woman from wearing a certain set of clothes. Equally lets look at the husbands of the women who are forced to wear it, they force it upon their wives because they believe it is wrong for religious reasons for women to be seen dressed openly in public. So what happens if a ban is put in place? The women aren't allowed out, simple as that.

From a human rights perspective, which is the main argument for banning the Burka, nothing good can come from it.

And there was me thinking that MP's were put in place to represent the majority of their constituents and that is what they voted on in the House of Commons. Shameful really that they can't even get that right.

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Originally Posted by Eckuii

And there was me thinking that MP's were put in place to represent the majority of their constituents and that is what they voted on in the House of Commons. Shameful really that they can't even get that right.

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That concept ended long ago, now it is what party HQ and what the whips desire. This is just more evidence if needed that we need a system based on the swiss system of direct democracy, where referendums are legally binding for parliament. To start a referendum in motion, 2.5% of the population would need to sign a petition asking so - the referendum then would be granted, most likely to coincidence with local elections/general elections and European elections.

Of course we know why that will not occur anytime soon in this country, we would end up doing the exact opposite of what the three main parties [Labour, Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats] want;

• We would be gone from the European Union.
• The burqa would be banned in this country.
• The death penalty would (possibly) be re-introduced.

+ along with many many other issues.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

That concept ended long ago, now it is what party HQ and what the whips desire. This is just more evidence if needed that we need a system based on the swiss system of direct democracy, where referendums are legally binding for parliament. To start a referendum in motion, 2.5% of the population would need to sign a petition asking so - the referendum then would be granted, most likely to coincidence with local elections/general elections and European elections.

Of course we know why that will not occur anytime soon in this country, we would end up doing the exact opposite of what the three main parties [Labour, Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats] want;

• We would be gone from the European Union.
• The burqa would be banned in this country.
• The death penalty would (possibly) be re-introduced.

+ along with many many other issues.

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The referendum idea is only good if it's temporary. Once they learn to represent their areas then it should be stopped. It would be annoying to have to do them all the time when they should hopefully learn that we elected them to reflect the majority in the areas they're elected or the bigger majority against the party in power and the man at the top.

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Originally Posted by GommeInc

The referendum idea is only good if it's temporary. Once they learn to represent their areas then it should be stopped. It would be annoying to have to do them all the time when they should hopefully learn that we elected them to reflect the majority in the areas they're elected or the bigger majority against the party in power and the man at the top.

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Switzerland have the referendum lock as a permanent feature of their democracy and they are perhaps one of the best countries in Europe (in terms of wealth, sovereignty and so forth). It is a problem getting people to vote I agree which is why you coincide them with elections every year - it is much better than the present system where we have something like a 60% (and falling) turnout for elections. The reason why many do not bother to vote is because the politicians simply do not listen and if they do, often they just drop it as soon as they are near the levers of power.

• Introduce referendum system based on the Swiss model.
• Abolish party whips in parliament.
• Move to the proportional representation system.
• Cut each chamber of parliament down to size to 400 per chamber or below.
• Remove executive powers from office of Prime Minister and hand them to parliament.

It hands the power back to the majority which afterall is what democracy is. It also gives people the motiviation to make a change - because they can with the systems above (and combined). Finally it would break down the ridiculous Lib-Lab-Con system we have running now where they are basically locked in their first, second and third positions no matter what.

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Originally Posted by alexxxxx

emotionally, i feel like they should ban it (especially inside) as it seems oppressive. but in my head i feel like they shouldn't because the government has no right to tell me or anyone else what i can or cannot wear.

In this case i feel that private businesses and public offices should be able to ask people to not conceal their face whilst in the building (security risk) or when to prove their ID - just like you would with someone wearing a motorbike helmet, but banning on the street? in people's houses? no.

it's a cultural thing and i think that it is a barrier to people integrating into mainstream british society and it is beyond me why anyone would want to wear it - even for being modest. you can be modest without having to put yourself away like that.

i don't find it offensive, why should i care what someone else is wearing, nor threatening, it's just weird.

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Bike helmets and balaclavas are banned for one of the reasons the burkha should be banned - security. Then there is the whole 'the burkha was made by men who are scared of women and oppress them' which I believe is true. Furthermore, banning it would improve integration - not hinder it. The burkha prevents social cohesion and a lot of women wear it/are forced to wear it just to show they are different. It is a disgrace and I hate our government.