Do you think teenagers are treated unfairly?

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Originally Posted by Wazzervaldez

Are teenagers slowly becoming the 'Denomination' of british society?

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lol, I'm doing about Beliefs in Society in Sociology right now. Denominations are one of four groups that we look at: Church, Sect, Cult and Denomination. So no, teenagers aren't becoming an off-shoot of a religion.

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Originally Posted by Wazzervaldez

The first sign that teenagers are becoming the "Denomination", is the scrapping of EMA's (Education Maintenace Allowance's). The EMA's paid for the cost of students who attend college, it would usually cover the cost of bus fares, possibly meals and resources that you purchase for your college courses. EMA's were usually £10-£30 given to students per. week, however the government have now removed these in an attempt to save money. Many students are obviously angered over the EMA removal and many consider it unfair because it's only a small amount of money, unlike the cost of giving millions of pounds to other countries in debt.

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Obviously you raise a good point about giving money to other countries (it's crap, it really is)... although EMA hasn't really changed that much. Those who needed it the most and received £30 per week still get £20 a week and I think it's quite greedy to expect any more than that. A bus pass is £31 a month, lunch is around £2 a day (on average) and notepads + pens are trivial. The problem is that too much money was being given out in the first place.

People aren't angry about the amount of money, moreover the fact that it's been cut. People can't accept the fact that they're now getting less than they used to, when in all honestly I think people should be pleased they're still getting anything at all. They could quite easily make people fend for themselves. As someone above mentioned, people in this country have got used to being spoon fed absolutely everything (yep, nanny state). We live in a cotton wool ball compared to some countries. We can't drive without being penalised. We can't have control over what happens in our own house. People expect benefits. People expect tax reductions. People expect pay rises. People expect EMA.... and it just so happens that it's been cut and everyone starts complaining.

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Originally Posted by Wazzervaldez

This has then had a knock-on effect on secondary school students. Thousands of students with GCSE's, simply aren't going into college because of the EMA support grant being removed and because university fees are rising. This has left thousands of students feeling helpless in regard to financial support when deciding on college and university, and will often deter students away from the decision of going to college and university also considering that most parents don't have enough money to fund future education, specifically university fees. It is not only EMA support which has been removed, Aim Higher and face-to-face careers guidance have been cut back as well.

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You're honestly telling me that "thousands of students" are refusing to go to college simply because EMA has been cut by £10? Don't be silly. If people want to go to college, they will. The UK will never be a country where talent is ignored due to finances.

Parents don't pay university fees. It's only paid when you're earning over £21,000 and even then, it's such a marginal amount that it's nothing to worry about. If you're referring to accomodation fees.. well.. they universities set those so they haven't changed on a national scale.

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Originally Posted by Wazzervaldez

Youth unemployment, is also disheartening teenagers across britain. Last weeks official figures revealed that 1 in 5 or nearly 1 million young people aged from 16-24 are out of work (Unemployed). Teenagers are often feeling disheartened, and have a lack of confidence to try and find employment, also many students who have good grades simply feel they won't be useful in the future and that good grades don't have much impact on the future anymore. The government has also decided to remove many businesses which help teenagers with job guidance, the famous "connexions" business is having to remove its services from many places as well as other career supporting businesses.

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I'll ignore the first bit because everyone faces that problem. If teenagers are feeling disheartened then it's on an individual basis and they should find the motivation instead of resorting to drink and drugs. Grades don't have an impact alone: an all round good-natured citizen is what's needed, and if you don't put in the effort then you don't get the reward.

Now perhaps I never fully understood the point in Connexions, but we were constantly reminded about its services at my old school and I never felt the need to see them. I'm guessing it's because I wanted to continue to a 6th Form / College, but it just looked like a waste of space to me. My 6th Form has a full-time careers advisor where each student has compulsory meetings and we're encouraged to book more. I've had quite a few, just to ask questions and get some advice about universities. I'm guessing most institutions have some form of advisor anyway, deeming Connexions rather pointless.

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Originally Posted by Wazzervaldez

One of the final points that shows teenagers in a negative viewpoint, is the media. For example when the riots in england happened, Television, Radio, Newspapers etc. all promoted a negativity around teenagers by using facts such as: "Over 53% of people arrested in the riots were teenagers" or headlines such as "Are britains youth out of control?". This is, of course making the view on teenagers, less and less appealing for the older generation and it also gives teenagers the opportunity to frown upon the government. Only 4000 people were arrested in the riots, if 53% were teenagers, then that is 2120 teenagers arrested. So what? If just over 2000 teenagers decide to go on a riot, it's highly unfair for the mass media to "slash" teenagers and start claiming "they are all out of control". Also, the mass media especially on news documentaries, only shows illiterate teenagers or un-educated teenagers. It rarely shows studious and polite teenagers (Except when reporting about A levels and GCSE's), this is a very "sneaky" trick and enhances the stereotype of modern day teenagers.

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I think if it was 2120 OAPs on the loose then it would be an even bigger news story. I do think the media can be somewhat biased towards teens and focuses on the rebelious ones deep within inner-city suburbs. It's a class issue and I think the same problem lies in a lot of places. It makes for a juicy news story, and that's what sells. In a perfect world though, our screens would be full of educated and polite individuals (and there's plenty), but sadly the media just doesn't work like that.

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Originally Posted by Wazzervaldez

Many teenagers who are upset about the way they are viewed by a large majority of people, are starting to blame the government. Since the Conservative party came into power along with the Liberal Democrats (Causing a Co-alition), teenagers don't seem to have been benefiting at all - facing huge losses with finance and career advice but mainly by being portrayed negatively by the government and in the mass media!

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Teenagers are "upset" about how they're being treated so they throw the blame on the Government. It seems to be the done thing these days because we live in a country where the people can't accept change. Absolutely pathetic. The Government and the mass media are two completely seperate institutions and I think they've been mixed together there.

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Originally Posted by Wazzervaldez

Hmm, yes you made a few fair points, but I still disagree it's nothing to do with the government.

The negative portrayal, yes that's probably mainly media. But the government still is targeting the younger generation in this time of "economic troubles" - It's unfair to scrap 4 methods which many teenagers would need for career advice and financial support in the future, especially considering they've also removed EMA's.

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How on earth are they targeting the "younger generation"? Everywhere is being cut (apparently)....

4 methods? EMA... Connexions..? It's not unfair, it's simple cost-cutting.

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Originally Posted by Wazzervaldez

Also - raising university fees is ridiculous. Many people feel, and it is usually the outcome, that going to university doesn't benefit you a great deal in the future - some people go to college and uni. end up with fantastic grades and then struggle to get a job. Raising the price of university fees is just going to deter more people away, meaning less qualified people for the small minority of jobs that are available.

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It's not ridiculous, it's just that the Government explained it terribly and the media blew it all completely out of proportion. You don't pay a penny back until you're earning over £21,000... and even then it's only something minimal. It's written off after 30 years and it leaves no mark on your debt slips. If you're genuinely concerned, I honestly don't think you should be.

So you want more people to go to university? Surely that means there's going to be even more people unemployed at the end of it? ....and even if you don't think that, then they'd be struggling to find work without a degree too - the unemployment problem is there whether you have a degree or not.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

I apologise if i'm slightly vague in my replies,

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Feeling okay? Where's the typical essay-style response? ;)

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

It is undeniable that our generation is one of the worst, as a result of our parents generation also being one of the worst. This is due to a complete breakdown in society; the weakening of divorce laws, the weakening of the Church of England, the end of due punishment in both education and the justice system, the idea that you are entitled to something for nothing from government (see minimam wage and EMA).. the list is endless, Britain is only following the path which most civilisations which have had their day followed - moral collapse.

Our schools and education system are awful and it is the result of the destruction of our grammar schools over many decades, to be replaced with comprehensives (otherwise known as academies) which frankly, suck. The Labour Party pushed this and introduced the comprehensives whilst the Conservative Party, as useless as ever, stood by and now actually aids this process.

This is the prime reason for our schools being a national embarrassment and this will continue until the grammars are returned.

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I agree with pretty much all of those points (for once!) and in particular, you couldn't be more right about the breakdown in society. It's only a matter of time before the government begin to realise some of their mistakes. The tuition fees are the perfect example: the average graduate will not pay off their "debt" - it's impossible. This means the government will just continue to dish out money left, right and centre to the raising amount of people attending university. Ugh.

I spent Years 7 to 11 at a comprehensive but I'm now at a Grammar School's 6th Form for my A Levels. Despite the original aim of Grammar Schools being dead and gone along with the 11+, the difference in the quality of teaching is absolutely massive and I couldn't help but continue to tell several teachers how amazed I was. You're in an environment with people of equal ability; there's no bullying and there's no belittling. People are there because they want to be and it's fantastic.

The notion that there should be "a school for all" (hence comprehensive) really does make you wonder why they changed. Surely it was an accident waiting to happen? You're going to have some bright people who want to work, and you're going to have some people who don't want to be there. It's such a shame, and it's exactly what I experienced.

Turned into a bit of a life story but hey ho I got carried away.

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1. UK is a developed country and has the world's six largest economy. The country doesn't need to suffer like how poor countries (India etc.) do. So, the standard of living including the income per person can be considered as decent enough for survival. Teenagers don't have to suffer from poverty etc. What more can a teenager ask for? They have almost all the necessities of survival and they aren't treated unfairly.

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I see why you're raising the point about economics and unstable governments. But I feel that , although financial issues do come into it, it's now more to do with Society. Teenagers aren't treated unfairly through basic needs of survival (food, water etc.) unlike poorer countries, like you said. However they are treated unfairly in regards to viewpoints from the older generation and the stereotypes today, here's an example - "An adult, could walk into a shop wearing a "hooded top" and very little judgement would be passed. Take the same situation with a teenager, you're likely to get a noticeably different reaction from others, because there's a stereotype that teenagers with 'hooded tops' hide their face to seem more demeaning and violent and teenagers with "hooded tops", have a tendency to harm others due to stereotypes." - This is completely a wrong view point, I've warn "hooded tops/hoodies" quite a few times, and I am one of the least violent people you could ever meet but I give off a negative 'aura' due to stereotypes.

Another example would involve 'swearing' - the majority of adults would use curse words on a day to day basis (I know that some don't) and the majority of people wouldn't care (unless it's a teacher or someone working with children). But as soon as it comes to teenagers swearing, it suddenly becomes a different issue, which makes no sense? If you say it's due to their age and that they shouldn't be swearing then that is on the boundary of "minor ageism" yet if adults say 'it's because I don't want you to be like that/this in the future' then that is kind of hypocritical. As most people on this thread have stated, the previous generation was "messed up", but if they want the current generation to grow up "better" than they did, then surely adults need to change their ways as well.

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They are also VERY picky when it comes to jobs.

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I completely disagree with that. For example I absolutely cannot stand working in a factor, the machinery, the noise, the safety risks. The thought is just >.<. However, Because I wanted some form of experience to start me off in life, my mums boss offered me a part time job and lucky me - it was in a factory. I certainly wasn't picky about it, I was very happy to have an opportunity to earn money and give me a little "push" in life. (For those who criticise me for moaning about how hard it is to get a job-my mum worked at that company for 3 years :L and I was only offered a Job out of luck <she didn't work there to try get me a part time job -_-> ). So teenagers aren't that picky (some are, the majority aren't - I know full well, that my friends would love any part time job <not too extreme>)it's just that they are simply being beaten to jobs by older and experienced people, companies are not likely to try and give an in-experienced teenage employee who has a 50-50 chance of doing well compared to an experienced adult who probably has a 95% chance of doing well in a job.

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Take the media out of the case and you're left with teenagers that are virtually ordinary citizens. The media portrays teenagers as lazy and jobless

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I slightly agree with you, I think that the media have a size-able impact on the view of teenagers. But I don't think removing the media would remove all portrayals of teenagers. There are still many stereotypes that exist in society, which (without the aid of the media) still show teenagers in a 'bad light' and I also think location has an impact of your view. For example someone living and brought up in a very 'urban' area would probably be used to seeing a lot of teenagers wearing "hooded tops" and swearing and would assume it's not that big an issue because they've been raised in that environment. However someone who lives in a very wealthy suburban area, in some place like... Kent are not going to be used to these types of people -they will most likely, be used to quite educated, wealthy and 'well dressed' people and will probably consider teenagers who wear "hooded tops" and swear, to be a very 'low class' type of people.

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Teens aren't exactly "proving a point" by rioting, "mooching" school and doing nothing but sit around all day and claim job seekers allowance.

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This is exactly what I was talking about, you can't simply stereotype all teenagers like that. Because 4000 idiots decide to riot, and then about 2120 of them are teenagers, that doesn't mean every single teenager is like that - the population of teenagers in the UK is just over 5 million, compared to 5 million - 2120 is a very small number.

"Mooching School" - this is simply because teenagers have lost focus in education, as I was saying earlier, teenagers are less motivated to work harder in order to get ahead in life, due to the tough world we live in at the moment. Teachers simply need to re-engage the minds of teenagers in classrooms, do you really think secondary school students enjoy a 6 / 7 hour day of learning for 5 days a week for about 40 weeks a year (the other weeks = holidays). No, the government should allow children more choice in subjects at school (English should hardly be compulsory - poetry won't help me if my dream job is to become a builder, will it :S).

Job seekers allowance..not going to bother disagreeing over jobs anymore.

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lol, I'm doing about Beliefs in Society in Sociology right now. Denominations are one of four groups that we look at: Church, Sect, Cult and Denomination. So no, teenagers aren't becoming an off-shoot of a religion.

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Yes, someone else pointed that out as well. Sorry for the bad choice of grammar xL - and Sociology, I'm considering taking that in college, Is it an interesting, thoughtful and a good subject to take?

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Teenagers are "upset" about how they're being treated so they throw the blame on the Government. It seems to be the done thing these days because we live in a country where the people can't accept change. Absolutely pathetic.

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I realise, like you said in a different paragraph, that the cost-cutting is happening everywhere and not just specifically in teenagers. But quite a lot of cuts do seem to be evolved around youth, even children. For example, the government isn't allowing school building projects - making it harder for parents to find a place for their child in a school and leading to increased competition for secondary schools - teenagers shouldn't need to compete for a good education x_x. Also teachers, are being paid less and their pensions are slowly becoming less and less, meaning less people will be motivated to become teachers (pay usually motivates people more than job satisfaction) so there will be less people able to teach future generations.

Also, youth centres, leisure centres - university fees rising, spaces in college becoming limited. All of these affect youth, one way or another, I'm pretty sure the government could find other ways to save money which don't affect the majority of teenagers, e.g. leaving the eurozone? (That was just a guess, I don't know if it would save money or not leaving the eurozone).

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I'm not going to call you a liar but I'd like to see a statement suggesting that the majority of unemployed persons of working age are teens

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1. I'll try and find evidence of it, I attempted last night but I couldn't find it :S (I read this quite a few months ago, so things could have changed).
2. I phrased what I said, completely wrong - I meant that proportion of teenagers to adults, who are un-employed is greater. I'm trying to say, if there were 5 million teenagers and 5 million adults, teenagers would still be less likely to get a job - because experience is 'vital' in jobs, which makes it very hard for teenagers to "burst into" the working world, considering they have very little chance of getting a job and gaining experience, when more experienced adults can also apply for the job.
3. If I can't find anything about it, then just completely ignore what I said - there's 4 simply "rules" or "maxim's" in a conversation/debate and 1 of them involves "Having adequate evidence to back up your points" , considering the un-employed youth statistics, I read a few months ago, I won't be able to give evidence.

~ Sorry if I "went on" a bit :L

I've just watched the first episode of Educating Essex (which was actually really interesting) and one of the closing lines from the Deputy Headteacher really does sum up my opinion. It just reminded me of this thread when I heard it:

"I just think its so grotesquely hypocritical of adults in the modern age to say that young people today are worse. They're not worse, they're a product of what we as a society create and they have less opportunity to be children." - Stephen Drew

**** reading these lecturers.

Do you know what I think? They rightly so cancelled EMA because it was a christmas present to society, 90% of kids that went to college for it only went to college for it.

And the worst thing is, people got it in my class when they stayed off for weeks?

The education system needs fixing, it has thousands of flaws.

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Originally Posted by Wazzervaldez

(This was going to be in a real life news article, until Habbox decided to "die" on me, so I'm placing it on here for now..).

I've wondered for quite a while now, if teenagers are seen as the "lower form" of society, so I decided to write an article about it, but then Habbox "died", so here's the article for now:

Are teenagers slowly becoming the 'Denomination' of british society?

If you thought being a teenager was the "easy part" in life, then you are very wrong. We're not talking about being shouted at by your parents, or being grounded for not being back home before 10pm. We're talking about society and the government.

The first sign that teenagers are becoming the "Denomination", is the scrapping of EMA's (Education Maintenace Allowance's). The EMA's paid for the cost of students who attend college, it would usually cover the cost of bus fares, possibly meals and resources that you purchase for your college courses. EMA's were usually £10-£30 given to students per. week, however the government have now removed these in an attempt to save money. Many students are obviously angered over the EMA removal and many consider it unfair because it's only a small amount of money, unlike the cost of giving millions of pounds to other countries in debt.

EMA was not used properly by a fair amount of students - yeah some used it for lunch, travel etc - but many used it to save for the latest gadget. I personally saw it as an unfair system anyway, since my parents never have and never will give me £30 a week to go to college (in fact, if I am lucky I get given £10 a month) since I have to work for my income, just like how both my parents did. For example, I remember when one student on THIS FORUM said (after the first iPad was announced), "brilliant, it will only take me 15 weeks of my EMA to get this! :)" - so I don't really think teenagers have become bottom of society or whatever for this reason.

This has then had a knock-on effect on secondary school students. Thousands of students with GCSE's, simply aren't going into college because of the EMA support grant being removed and because university fees are rising. This has left thousands of students feeling helpless in regard to financial support when deciding on college and university, and will often deter students away from the decision of going to college and university also considering that most parents don't have enough money to fund future education, specifically university fees. It is not only EMA support which has been removed, Aim Higher and face-to-face careers guidance have been cut back as well.

Sorry, but if anyone doesn't go to college because they are not paid to go, they don't have the right attitude so I don't care if they go or not. Having said that, obviously students need to pay for travel. My train pass comes in at £540 per year - which is a lot, but even if my family couldn't afford it, I would have got off my backside and worked for that money to get myself to college - I know people say work is short, but I would have even taken a ******* paper round to get to college (lets say £16 per week, 52 weeks a year = £832).

University fees; I am totally with you on this one. The rise in fees makes me, as a student, feel worthless. Most of the fools that made this decision didn't pay ANYTHING to go to university, but to then rise the fees from £9,000 for three years to £27,000 is to be perfectly honest, disgusting. I will still go to university, despite the fee rises - but that won't change the fact I will feel like I am being mugged. SO yeah, agree with you on Uni Fees (just like any teenager or parent with common sense would).

Youth unemployment, is also disheartening teenagers across britain. Last weeks official figures revealed that 1 in 5 or nearly 1 million young people aged from 16-24 are out of work (Unemployed). Teenagers are often feeling disheartened, and have a lack of confidence to try and find employment, also many students who have good grades simply feel they won't be useful in the future and that good grades don't have much impact on the future anymore. The government has also decided to remove many businesses which help teenagers with job guidance, the famous "connexions" business is having to remove its services from many places as well as other career supporting businesses.

Difficult one here in my opinion. Yeah the figures are high, but I disagree with you that people with decent grades (eg. degrees) won't be needed in the future. Businesses right across the world are hiring people to do different jobs for them - and most of those jobs look out for decent grades etc. I don't think the problem here is anything to do with grades though, it is the recession. This has caused businesses to make cuts, so people are losing jobs - and just because a lot of people lose their jobs due to cuts, doesn't mean those jobs will get given to other people - it means the business can not afford to have as many staff financially - which is not what the business, nor what the unemployed want.

One of the final points that shows teenagers in a negative viewpoint, is the media. For example when the riots in england happened, Television, Radio, Newspapers etc. all promoted a negativity around teenagers by using facts such as: "Over 53% of people arrested in the riots were teenagers" or headlines such as "Are britains youth out of control?". This is, of course making the view on teenagers, less and less appealing for the older generation and it also gives teenagers the opportunity to frown upon the government. Only 4000 people were arrested in the riots, if 53% were teenagers, then that is 2120 teenagers arrested. So what? If just over 2000 teenagers decide to go on a riot, it's highly unfair for the mass media to "slash" teenagers and start claiming "they are all out of control". Also, the mass media especially on news documentaries, only shows illiterate teenagers or un-educated teenagers. It rarely shows studious and polite teenagers (Except when reporting about A levels and GCSE's), this is a very "sneaky" trick and enhances the stereotype of modern day teenagers.

For obvious reasons, I agree with you. I hate how when a few brain dead scum go out rioting, the general population of teenagers is hated against. Having said that it always happens - I mean, how many times are \ssians hated against? I can say not, Asians aren't like the media make out! The problem is, nobody wants to read about the nice, sweet teenagers - or the cute and cuddly Asians. People like to read about dramatic, tragedy's etc. But yeah, I cannot stand at how teenagers are put down due to a tiny minority, and imo a lot of the stuff in newspapers is prejudice towards teenagers.

However, not all teenagers are as innocent as they seem - especially inside school. In a recent poll, it was discovered that over 70% of parents and teachers wanted to bring back 'corporal punishment' in schools, such as the infamous 'canining'. If you thought this was bias towards adults, it wasn't, over 50% of teenagers agreed with bringing caning back and felt it as a necessary way of teenagers being able to control unruly pupils inside classrooms.

I agree the cane should be brought back, but I am not sure how you could stop teachers abusing it - which always was the problem. If it couldn't be abused I would agree to bring it back, since it might make all the people to big for their shoes sit down and learn something.

Also, the government feels that 'Ofsted' is incorrectly rating secondary schools. Ofsted rate 1 in 10 schools as being 'outstanding' which is about 600 schools (in britain), however the government feel that 54% of these schools, need to be re-evaluated due to poor teaching rates and simply not enough interaction from students willing to learn.

Ofsted do look at schools incorrectly. All they care about is how a school gets as many pupils with 5 A*-C grades. What about those that get 10 A*-C grades, or 13? Oh yeah, that doesn't matter. The system used by Ofsted is flawed - not to mention the warning schools get - ever noticed the massive change in your school when Ofsted look around?

Many teenagers who are upset about the way they are viewed by a large majority of people, are starting to blame the government. Since the Conservative party came into power along with the Liberal Democrats (Causing a Co-alition), teenagers don't seem to have been benefiting at all - facing huge losses with finance and career advice but mainly by being portrayed negatively by the government and in the mass media!

Yeah, the worst bit about this was the ******* Liberal Democrats lying through their teeth - and instead of freezing fees (and possibly even removing them) they decided to vote to triple them. Once again though, most the people in power who have decided to make our university fees £9,000 a year, didn't pay a single penny for their education. How's that for sticking two fingers up to families right across the country.
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I was wondering if you think that teenagers are now seen as the denomination of society? (lowest form) - I think they definitely are, they stereotypes they are given and the way they are portrayed by the government and media, is definitely negative or at least has a negative "aura" around it.

But yeah, what do you lot on here think ?

So yeah, I think there are some good points raised here, but I don't necessarily think we are being pushed to the bottom - we are an easy target, and that is the problem. Also, when the youth of Britain tried to make a change (you know, through the protests about university fees), the same brain dead scumbags who caused the London Riots came out and set fires, trashed buildings etc - so the entire attention went away from the cost of University to those who caused unrest, damage and injuries.

Thread moved by Infectious (Forum Super Moderator): From "Current Affairs", as it is better suited here!

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In Bold.

I know in my school, there are people who chose like BTECs, P.E, Games, Music and Media and only stuck with the core subjects they had to do. They always complain about how school is so "tough" yet I'd like to see them do only things like History, Geography, French etc. (I was going to put proper subjects, but I know how many people on this forum like to "debate"...)

This annoys me so much. But at least I know I'll be getting stronger GCSE's at the end of the year, so meh :)