'Second hand smoke' myth

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Originally Posted by Fez

I've had asthma attacks from second-hand smoke, smoking has a clear link to lung cancer so (obviously) second-hand smoke does too. Penn and Teller have never really done anything constructive with their shows, aside from this lovely video-game defence, even displaying absolute militant atheism twisted into anti-theism. I wouldn't trust anyone interviewed in that posting.

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No it does not, see again.

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Originally Posted by Fez

Do I believe in the ban? In theory, absolutely. In practice, the governments have made an absolute ****-up of not investing in 'smoking rooms', making private businesses pick up the bill. No surprise that pubs are losing business in this day and age when people have to go outside into the cold to deal with their depression.

But, honestly, if you want to suggest for one second that second hand smoke can't harm people well I grew up in a family of smokers and the doctors I saw throughout my asthma have all said there's a link there. My asthma is set off by anyone smoking, worse than sprays and such. If you also want to dispute asthma somehow not harming the human body then hello!

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I will dispute it just as we can dispute that it causes cancer. I cannot believe the attitude of some people on here who think that they have a right to remove something which they do not like via the force of the law. It absolutely annoys the hell out of me, worse still these are the same people who talk about 'the dark days' of when homosexuality was banned - which in part is true because why should the government ban what people do in their own bedrooms or what people smoke in their own bars, clubs and pubs?

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Originally Posted by Andy

i'm a smoker, but a fair one.. if people don't like me smoking around them, ill go outside.. i mostdefinitelyagree with the view that is should be the business owners choice. designated inside smoking rooms possibly? yes, it is just common decency to go outside.. but sometimes you feel discriminated against. like the 'evidence' says.. it's not particularly dangerous but i'm a fair person.. i'll happily go outside to keep others happy. you cant beat the system.. therefore you go with it

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The choice of the business owner, absolutely.

We used to class that as freedom until the above lot started their pathetic whinging on the topic. I don't smoke, I haven't even tried smoking because I think its stupid mainly for the price cigarettes cost - but am I overly concerned about smoke? no, and if I was then i'd so the simple thing and go to a bar which doesn't allow smoking.

It really is that easy people, so why don't you all grow up and think for yourselves instead of having government wipe your bottom?

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Originally Posted by The Don

It's not hard to go outside of a pub/club/bar to have a quick smoke and it's much more convenient, so in that sense, it should be banned from inside public places.

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And its also very easy for you to walk out of a bar/pub if you are that concerned about smoke.

But forgive me, that would involve using your own will and brainpower would it not?

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Originally Posted by Accipiter

Heres my point, if you can't prove it, don't give a damn about it.

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Here's my point, if you don't like it then stay away from it.

Thats what a free society involves.

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Originally Posted by Accipiter

I merely don't like standing around people who smoke, because they'll tell me about how their life is hard and how their uncle was very friendly when they where young. It's a foul stench, and I avoid people who smoke with a wide birth because it's a dirty habbit.

I'm neither side, smoke if you want to, but if someone dislikes it move away.

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Do you drink or consume fatty foods? do you do what most guys do which involves the downstairs department? if the answer is yes to all three (which i'd put money on) then I suggest you clear up your dirty habits before you start lecturing the rest of society on what they can/cannot do on premises which you do not own.

How about it? maybe then, maybe then you can lecture us all.

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Originally Posted by Accipiter

The video is very biased, where you not only just moaning about the BBC for that very kind of thing?

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Actually the video goes to those who have studied the topic rather than follow the bandwagon, and thats something the BBC will not do, has never done and which most of the mainstream media will not do.

buttons

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Originally Posted by buttons

er even if it doesn't harm us (which i believe it does) it still lingers on your clothing and makes me cough/gag. seriously when i had to live in a temp house myself, it was a non-smoking house but the guy before disregarded that and smoked anyway. the whole house smelled. ALL my clothes, even if they hadn't been worn but were just lying about SMELLED. horrible. honestly, why are you so adamant to allow public smoking in bars/clubs? because it'll get more customers? that's the pubs/clubs problem. our club here has a smoking room.... it should be up to them.

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No, because you do not own the pub/bar therefore you have no input into how it is run.

If you don't like the smell, why don't you do the adult thing and not go there? its much better than this babyish attitude we have to put up with which you've just displayed which suggests that you are incapable of making your own decisions without legislation from Whitehall and Brussels.

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Originally Posted by buttons

no i haven't watched this, i'm commenting only on what you've posted which is ridiculous. of course people are going to say that second hand smoking isn't dangerous. you do realize only in the 1950s etc they didn't even know there were any health complications with first-hand smoking???? man you're stuck in the past with everything lol. it's easier and more convient for smokers to get out of the way of non-smokers than vise versa. & i'm more than happy to stay away from people whenever i do smoke. it's simple and respectful.

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Then let the pub owners decide that, yeah? not you, as far as i'm aware you do not own a pub/part of a pub therefore frankly your opinion doesn't matter in the slightest just as my opinion doesn't matter in the slightest to British Airways as I don't own any shares.

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Originally Posted by GommeInc

I don't care about the harm it does. It's a disgusting habit that should never of happened. There are zilch benefits when it comes to smoking, and people stupid enough to take up the habit should seperate themselves and smoke outside to respect others. It's forcing respect onto people who partake in a stinky, dirty habit, because they're too selfish to remvoe themselves from the company of people who do not want to leave a place after a night out stinking of tobacco smoke.

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Because we live in a free society (or we're supposed to) where we accept there are things which go on that we may not agree with or like. You know, similar to the way you often ask and rightly too 'the EU has no right to tell us to do this' - well you and the government have no right to force pub owners whether or not smoking is allowed on the premises.

tl;dr

Yes, we live in a free society, so if I wish to walk into a smoke-free bar, I should be entitled to. Stop thinking your opinion is superior to everyone else’s. Having a designated smoking zone is a much more practical option,and I’m not going to go into fact, but it is fairly obvious that if smoking causes illness, then inhaling the fumes second hand can’t do much good for you.

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Oh, and someone being gay has no effect on anyone else whereas second hand smoke does, what a terrible comparison.

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Originally Posted by The Don

tl;dr

Yes, we live in a free society, so if I wish to walk into a smoke-free bar, I should be entitled to. Stop thinking your opinion is superior to everyone else’s. Having a designated smoking zone is a much more practical option,and I’m not going to go into fact, but it is fairly obvious that if smoking causes illness, then inhaling the fumes second hand can’t do much good for you.

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Indeed and you can because there is a market for smoke-free bars and pubs, but you must understand that it is not a right to be able to walk into a smoke free bar just as its not my right to not see gay pride on march as distasteful as I find it. Our 'rights' are to be able to do mostly what we want without others using government to prevent us from following our own self-interests.

Now what is so hard about understanding that, the basic concept of a free society?

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

Indeed and you can, but its not a right to be able to walk into a smoke free bar just as its not my right to not see gay pride on march as distasteful as I find it.

Now what is so hard about understanding that, the basic concept of a free society?

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someone being gay has no effect on anyone else whereas second hand smoke does, what a terrible comparison.

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Originally Posted by The Don

someone being gay has no effect on anyone else whereas second hand smoke does, what a terrible comparison.

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Oh for gods sake.

I don't like gay pride for example as I find it distasteful, cringeworthy and very pornographic. You don't like the smell of smoke because it lets say gets your clothes slightly smelly. Well in both cases, whilst we may not like or approve of what is occuring before us, because we live in a free society we accept that people can do things which we may not approve and we can then simply walk away from both scenarios.

I can only imagine the reaction of you lot if any government attempted to ban gay pride, consumption of alcohol, sex before marriage or anything along those lines. Absolute hypocrites.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

Indeed and you can because there is a market for smoke-free bars and pubs, but you must understand that it is not a right to be able to walk into a smoke free bar just as its not my right to not see gay pride on march as distasteful as I find it. Our 'rights' are to be able to do mostly what we want without others using government to prevent us from following our own self-interests.

Now what is so hard about understanding that, the basic concept of a free society?

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Basic concept of free society is no death penalty, but you can't get that around your mind somehow.. Don't try and pull the rights ******** on me because clearly you have no respect for them.

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Originally Posted by Chippiewill

Basic concept of free society is no death penalty, but you can't get that around your mind somehow.. Don't try and pull the rights ******** on me because clearly you have no respect for them.

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Errr sorry where does this come from? please do not make stuff up on the spot. If I believed in anarchy (which is not a free society, please see the distinction) then I would not believe in prisons or any form of government. As it happens, I do believe in government - in as limited a role as possible which covers basic areas such as when somebody elses rights are taken (the right to life) and so forth.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

Oh for gods sake.

I don't like gay pride for example as I find it distasteful, cringeworthy and very pornographic. You don't like the smell of smoke because it lets say gets your clothes slightly smelly. Well in both cases, whilst we may not like or approve of what is occuring before us, because we live in a free society we accept that people can do things which we may not approve and we can then simply walk away from both scenarios.

I can only imagine the reaction of you lot if any government attempted to ban gay pride, consumption of alcohol, sex before marriage or anything along those lines. Absolute hypocrites.

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Smoking is bad for your health; second hand smoke has negative effects on health as well. What isn't bad for your health, however, is someone’s sexual preference or anything else that anyone does which has no physical impact on you, which is why I find it absolutely ridiculous and appalling that you would compare the two. Whether you touch yourself at night or not has no effect on me whatsoever, it won't affect my health, whereas if you blew cigarette smoke in my face, that would have a physical effect on me, get it?

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Originally Posted by The Don

Smoking is bad for your health

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So is consumption of fatty foods, drinking alcohol, consuming high amounts of salt and consuming food dyes.

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second hand smoke has negative effects on health as well.

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No it does not, please see the video and pay attention.

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Originally Posted by The Don

What isn't bad for your health, however, is someone’s sexual preference or anything else which anyone does that has no physical impact on you, which is why I find it absolutely ridiculous and appalling that you would compare the two. Whether you touch yourself at night or not has no effect on me whatsoever, it won't affect my health, whereas if you blew cigarette smoke in my face, that would have a physical effect on me, get it?

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But watching a gay pride may have a mental negative effect on me even a physical effect by making me feel sick watching (as I said before, I find it pornographic and distatseful), so what about me? but essentially you've stated above that your prime concern with smoking is the health of others. So right now i'd like you to come out in favour of banning all consumption of alcohol in public places, all consumption of salts, all consumption of fatty foods and so forth. Hey, why not go the whole hog and ban it completely seeing as you know best?

If you can't come out in favour of that, then you prove yourself a worthy hypocrite.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

Do you drink or consume fatty foods? do you do what most guys do which involves the downstairs department? if the answer is yes to all three (which i'd put money on) then I suggest you clear up your dirty habits before you start lecturing the rest of society on what they can/cannot do on premises which you do not own.

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If you're talking about what I think you're talking about, I find it highly offensive that you're calling it a dirty habit.

Anyway, all three of the things you listed as "dirty habits" have no effects on anyone apart from the person who does them. SHS has proven effects on the people who inhale it.