Dying Steve Jobs kept Bill Gates' letter at bedside

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02-02-2012, 06:05 PM
Recursion

Quote:

Originally Posted by GommeInc

Pfft, pot-kettle-black moment. Jobs is famously and frequently quoted from that book accusing Android of grand theft for similarities (even though there will be anyway) and accused Google/Android of "grand theft". Surprise, surprise that a notification bar or "centre" that looks surprisingly like the one found on Android appeared on the latest version of iOS :P That said, the two are different and if it pleases iOS users then fair play, it's their choice - and one thing Jobs never understood is that the consumer has a choice - if they prefer Android over iOS then tough cookies, it's their choice - not his and his egotistical, megalomaniac decision to sway people over to his devices by blotting out the competition as he so wanted to do in Walter Isaacson's book.

That said, Microsoft and Apple, even Samsung and Google, are all guilty of pointless patents that hinder innovation, stifle creativity and create anti-competitive values. The lot of them need thousands of their patents stripped from them - specifically the ones that protect entire concepts. Ones that protect the way of manipulating a device that works within a concept are perfectly fine.

Microsoft saved Apple from bankruptcy in the 1980s by becoming a partner, there's a video on YouTube of Jobs giving a keynote speech being boo'ed at by people in the audience. Apple and Microsoft have always propped each other up anyway. The book and Bill Gates have stated, the two were friendly rivals. It's just a bit perculiar Jobs kept calling Microsoft unoriginal, but if American keynote speeces and conferences are anything to go by, they're just dramatised and theatrical.

Now now, let's not play the "who stole what from who" game :P Speckling of which, didn't Apple steal the GUI from Xerox or some other computer company, even though people believe Apple created pretty GUIs?

They definitely weren't the first to provide a GUI afaik
02-02-2012, 10:55 PM
Dentafrice

Apple got the chance to visit Xerox PARC.. Mouse and GUI..

Apple took the GUI.. debuted with Macintosh I'm pretty sure.. as Apple II was still command line.

Apple Lisa had the GUI, Microsoft got ahold of an Apple Lisa, Microsoft took the GUI ideas.

Microsoft was supposed to be working with Apple at the time only on Excel and Word for the Mac. Steve Jobs found out about "Windows" and noticed it was almost a direct clone of Mac's GUI at the time. He called Gates down to his house or office I do believe and it was quite the fight.

I think that's how it went if I remember correctly.
02-02-2012, 11:56 PM
peteyt

It doesn't matter what was more innovative between the Mac and Windows, Windows in my opinion came top - I'm not a hater of either but I see Windows being used by a lot of people,businessesand so on. Even the tills at work have some form of it.

Mac's to me have always, like many products of Apple, felt like a fad, a fashion accessory. Yeah they might look good but my Samsung Galaxy S2 looks good and was a lot cheaper than an iPhone.

But yeah everyone steals everything. I always remember when Internet Explorer 7 came out and boasted about tabbed browsing like it was a brand new thing - I'd been using Firefox for a few years before that (although now a Chrome user).
03-02-2012, 01:10 AM
GommeInc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dentafrice

Apple got the chance to visit Xerox PARC.. Mouse and GUI..

Apple took the GUI.. debuted with Macintosh I'm pretty sure.. as Apple II was still command line.

Apple Lisa had the GUI, Microsoft got ahold of an Apple Lisa, Microsoft took the GUI ideas.

Microsoft was supposed to be working with Apple at the time only on Excel and Word for the Mac. Steve Jobs found out about "Windows" and noticed it was almost a direct clone of Mac's GUI at the time. He called Gates down to his house or office I do believe and it was quite the fight.

I think that's how it went if I remember correctly.

Either way, Jobs had no right to talk down to Gates like he was a thief, when he's one himself :P
The tech world is filled with hypocrites. Jobs, for example, paints himself as the innovator when what he actually did was either steal (which he admits he does) or buy companies that created the tech first (FingerWorks, who were bought out by Apple and who created multi-touch). At least Gates admits that the innovations of other companies are too good not to be used for future endeavours.

Quote:

Originally Posted by peteyt

It doesn't matter what was more innovative between the Mac and Windows, Windows in my opinion came top - I'm not a hater of either but I see Windows being used by a lot of people,businessesand so on. Even the tills at work have some form of it.

Agreed. What companies like Microsoft, Apple, and Google need to learn and remember is that it's the general public and their potential customers who are key to their success. If a consumer wants to buy an Android phone over an iPhone, then it is their choice and not the owners of the companies behind each brand - suing another company because they are successful is ridiculous. But unfortunately, we live in a law driven world where companies believe they can control consumers, when what they should be doing is persuading.
03-02-2012, 03:56 AM
Dentafrice

Oh yeah, I agree.. both stole haha. I was just trying to get the story right.

Good artists copy, great artists steal :).

Either way, I don't care what machine OS X runs on, I like OS X over Windows, operating system wise. It's all I use anymore. I have my iMac, MacBook Pro, iPad 2, and iPhone 4... and they all keep me organized and sync'd throughout the day. Could I do it with an Android based phone, tablet, and Windows based PC? Sure... do I like how Apple natively works great together? Yep.

At the end of the day it's personal preference and what you can afford lol.
06-02-2012, 08:44 PM
Logandyer45

If anyone has EVER bought an Apple product, you can see it's the best brand of phone, computer. Say what you want, what problems you may have with the product is youropinion, but Apple will stay on top.
06-02-2012, 08:51 PM
jasey

All of my tech products are Apple and I find this story really heartwarming.
06-02-2012, 09:16 PM
HotelUser

It's all just business. Microsoft has stolen things from other companies as has Apple, as has Google (Samsung + Google + Apple = <3). Apple and Steve Jobs has and had every right to speak out on what other companies have infringed upon which Apple created, just like Microsoft has those same rights, Google and the likes. But Microsoft is just really awesome in the business part of things. Nobody said they invented every aspect of Windows, or that it sold so great because it was the best. They made alliances and marketed it amazingly. Microsoft certainly didn't invent or reinnovate the mobile operating system, but they'll get good sales on WP7 this year primarily because they're investing one hell of a lot in a partnership with one of the world's biggest consumer phone producers. That's not to hate on WP7, just to speculate that the primary reason it's not going to be the complete failure that Windows Mobile was in its dying years, is that Microsoft's created nice partnerships now.

The key to success in this industry doesn't have very much to do with who has the best product at all. Microsoft did it by making specific business decisions, murdering potential competition therefore building dependencies, Apple did it by forming a cult and deciding it was time to restore balance in the world by modernizing the portable computer industry, and Google kind of just did everything including that internet and open source stuff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GommeInc

Either way, Jobs had no right to talk down to Gates like he was a thief, when he's one himself
The tech world is filled with hypocrites. Jobs, for example, paints himself as the innovator when what he actually did was either steal (which he admits he does) or buy companies that created the tech first (FingerWorks, who were bought out by Apple and who created multi-touch). At least Gates admits that the innovations of other companies are too good not to be used for future endeavours.

Agreed. What companies like Microsoft, Apple, and Google need to learn and remember is that it's the general public and their potential customers who are key to their success. If a consumer wants to buy an Android phone over an iPhone, then it is their choice and not the owners of the companies behind each brand - suing another company because they are successful is ridiculous. But unfortunately, we live in a law driven world where companies believe they can control consumers, when what they should be doing is persuading.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dentafrice

Oh yeah, I agree.. both stole haha. I was just trying to get the story right.

Good artists copy, great artists steal .

Either way, I don't care what machine OS X runs on, I like OS X over Windows, operating system wise. It's all I use anymore. I have my iMac, MacBook Pro, iPad 2, and iPhone 4... and they all keep me organized and sync'd throughout the day. Could I do it with an Android based phone, tablet, and Windows based PC? Sure... do I like how Apple natively works great together? Yep.

At the end of the day it's personal preference and what you can afford lol.

I used to think Windows Mobile was the most amazing thing in the world and I even had a few HPCs sporting Windows CE. When Apple woke the industry back up in 2007 thus forcing other companies to do things too I forked maybe Android 1.3 onto my HTC Vogue effectively replacing Windows Mobile. Android was and is just awesome and I completely love ICS on my Touchpad. iOS has many things I dislike such as the inability to have many freedoms in terms of software however I would choose my iPhone 4 over an Android phone any day of the week because A) Battery life Battery life Battery life and B) a year from now I'll be guaranteed updates on my iPhone. On an Android phone, official support for handsets is god awful as soon as any company releases a new line of handsets and different handsets are guaranteed updates at a staggered pace, if at all. If it wasn't for those two things (but mostly battery) I'd probably be using one of the dual core 4.3" Android handsets.

P.S. Just to include RIM in on this Mobile talk I've been saying RIM makes absolutely disgusting products and that they're irrelevant in the grand scheme of things for about the past five years now. This has gotten me into arguments both in real life and many people on Habbox Forum. I am very happy, (although not so happy for the folks over at RIM) that other people are finally being enlightened as to just how bad RIM has actually been. Only took a few years.
06-02-2012, 11:24 PM
Dentafrice

I agree with what you said 100%... surprisingly, haha.

Either way.. I've had numerous Droids and an iPhone 4, although I've had every generation of iPod touch. I prefer iOS over Android.

Android, to me, has always felt very... very... very buggy. No matter what I did, it always seemed like there was a bug popping up somewhere, or some other weird event going on. Maybe it was just me.

As far as software freedom, when I didn't have a job and was just playing around all day... software freedom on my iPhone/iPT really meant a lot to me... now that all I do is work, commute, and enjoy myself... I find myself less concerned about what apps I can install, if there is an app I can buy for $0.99-$9 that will work and update and play nicely with my iPhone.

That being said... I still have an unjailbroken iPhone 4, jailbroken iPhone 4, jailbroken iPod Touchs' and a few rooted Droids.

I still pick the iPhone just because at the end of the day, I like it... I like Apple... and I just like the way it works.

Ohh, and RIM sucks.
06-02-2012, 11:52 PM
peteyt

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logandyer45

If anyone has EVER bought an Apple product, you can see it's the best brand of phone, computer. Say what you want, what problems you may have with the product is youropinion, but Apple will stay on top.

And what do you have to back this up?

It annoys me that because most people have an apple, iphone, ipad etc. peoplepresumeit is the only one capable of stuff.

When I was deciding on getting a new phone before Christmas I had originally decided to get a staff deal (I work at Tesco) on the HTC Wildfire S until I noticed I could get a similar deal on the Samsung Galaxy SII.

I liked the look of the galaxy but asked on Facebook which led to a big debate - basically a certain person said there is no equivalentto an iphone, iphones never break and they can do everything. The first part was the worst - it's like because people see the iPhone as one of the top phones they seem to think nothing can beat it.

It got funny when we mentioned how the s2 had more ghz, basically more powerful - one of the people fighting for the iPhone said that's because android is open source and can do more and needs the power and basically didn't realise that was actually a positive thing.

The other thing is yeah If I had money to waste I might get an iPhone, but I've got loads I need to save up for, why buy a phone that's expensive when I can get a phone that can do everything really the same at a fraction of the price (the actual phone cost me nothing).

In my opinion I feel the iPhone uses an old market price. It was maybe worth the price when there wasn't as much choice but now that there are lots of similar phones for a lot cheaper, it would be sensible to drop the price. However Apple have an image of money, and that's why people seem to buy them - I think people like to have the phone because it shows people they have the money to buy it.

Oh and if iPhone's don't have problems, what about the fact left handed users had big issues?

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