Russia 'homosexual propaganda' protests

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Originally Posted by FlyingJesus

So you support the opposite - attacking and locking up anyone who speaks for homosexuality? Not sure if you're aware of how this law is set out but it literally means that two men walking together without a woman could theoretically be arrested on charges of homosexuality and that's enough evidence to convict them.

Wonder what would happen if a Russian dictator was able to silence and send away anyone they don't like the look of on trumped-up charges that can't be challenged... Oh wait

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Originally Posted by Inseriousity.

I find that strange coming from you. I was under the impression you were for freedom of expression so against banning anti-homosexuals from not being able to air their views but likewise would be against banning "homosexual propaganda" too.

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To both of you - no, i'm simply making the point that there's outrage about this because it's the opposite to what happens here which is just as bad (people being locked up/losing their jobs for 'homophobia') and because it's Russia which has a reputation as an oppressive state yet which is doing pretty much what we do anyway just the other way round.

Simply pointing out how we are just as bad - although at least Putin isn't cracked enough to endorse disgusting parades through the streets which most normal decent folk I would say find rather offensive and offputting.

Just cracked enough to imprison people for not looking the right way. Right. Totally normal and decent to be in favour of that.

lol at everyone saying on there they are gonna boycott 2014 winter olympics because of this

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Originally Posted by FlyingJesus

Just cracked enough to imprison people for not looking the right way. Right. Totally normal and decent to be in favour of that.

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Like our country for punishing people for not thinking the 'right' way. I find that even scarier.

You are aware that that doesn't happen though right. Society punishes them by mob rule but it's not illegal to have thoughts in this country, whereas you're praising the laws of a country where that is the case

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Originally Posted by FlyingJesus

You are aware that that doesn't happen though right. Society punishes them by mob rule but it's not illegal to have thoughts in this country, whereas you're praising the laws of a country where that is the case

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Wrong, it's actually the law itself - along with the fact that the law then pushes companies into behaving like this.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ar...ny-return.html - story of grandparents told that if they opposed their granddaughter being fostered by a gay couple, they'd never see her again.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/o...re/4606022.stm - man arrested for calling a Police horse 'gay'.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013...n_3549537.html - preacher arrested for 'homophobic language'.
http://www.crawleyobserver.co.uk/new...feat-1-5088451 - man arrested for 'homophobic abuse'.

Endless other examples of people in public sector being fired, etc etc.

Now to me - the above examples seem to be like something you would expect from Russia and not the other way around. Yet it is the other way around... so why is Russia being condemned for this pro-morality crackdown whereas over here it is the complete opposite?

Russia simply isn’t a homosexual country, it’s as simple as that – they’re history dictates this. Tsar Peter the Great banned homosexual relations in the Russian armed forces in the 18th century; he deemed it as a necessary action to modernise Russia. In 1832 further laws were introduced to criminalise certain sexual acts between two males. It was only in 1999 when homosexuality was removed from the list of Russian mental disorders – 14 years ago. People who have grown up with this viewpoint won’t change overnight. As recent as 2002 a conservative pro-government group leader, Gennady Raikov, suggested outlawing homosexual acts. His suggestion generated public support from many conservative religious leaders and medical doctors.

You may think Russia is a backwards country however its history dictates its people’s views.

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Originally Posted by Plegar

Russia simply isn’t a homosexual country, it’s as simple as that – they’re history dictates this. Tsar Peter the Great banned homosexual relations in the Russian armed forces in the 18th century; he deemed it as a necessary action to modernise Russia. In 1832 further laws were introduced to criminalise certain sexual acts between two males. It was only in 1999 when homosexuality was removed from the list of Russian mental disorders – 14 years ago. People who have grown up with this viewpoint won’t change overnight. As recent as 2002 a conservative pro-government group leader, Gennady Raikov, suggested outlawing homosexual acts. His suggestion generated public support from many conservative religious leaders and medical doctors.

You may think Russia is a backwards country however its history dictates its people’s views.

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Well Lenin actually legalised homosexuality, but aside from that, you're spot on.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

Wrong, it's actually the law itself - along with the fact that the law then pushes companies into behaving like this.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ar...ny-return.html - story of grandparents told that if they opposed their granddaughter being fostered by a gay couple, they'd never see her again.

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Also the case with anyone contesting custody on grounds other than pragmatic ones, especially after said people have already been deemed unfit to support the child themselves. It's a contempt case

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/o...re/4606022.stm - man arrested for calling a Police horse 'gay'.

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Case dropped because it wasn't an unlawful act, so also doesn't belong in this list

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013...n_3549537.html - preacher arrested for 'homophobic language'.

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Released that very same day with no charge because again it was the poor decision of a singular police officer who clearly didn't know the law as well as they ought to have done

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

http://www.crawleyobserver.co.uk/new...feat-1-5088451 - man arrested for 'homophobic abuse'.

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No further information given so can't comment on this one. Half a point for you perhaps

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

Now to me - the above examples seem to be like something you would expect from Russia and not the other way around. Yet it is the other way around... so why is Russia being condemned for this pro-morality crackdown whereas over here it is the complete opposite?

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To me they seem like human error and overcompensating on a personal level, which is indicated in the way that the law failed to prosecute a single one of them. Your odd views on morality which include "just because" and "well it's always been that way" (hint: those aren't sound arguments) do not and should not vindicate actual tyranny that is backed by law

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Originally Posted by FlyingJesus

Also the case with anyone contesting custody on grounds other than pragmatic ones, especially after said people have already been deemed unfit to support the child themselves. It's a contempt case

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Spin it how you want, two grandparents have been told they will not see their child again simply because the state deems they have the 'wrong' social views concerning homosexuality and foster care. That's disgusting.

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Originally Posted by FlyingJesus

Case dropped because it wasn't an unlawful act, so also doesn't belong in this list

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He was still arrested by the state simply for daring to mouth a 'homophobic' word in public. Much like the gay pride protestors being arrested in Russia.

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Originally Posted by FlyingJesus

Released that very same day with no charge because again it was the poor decision of a singular police officer who clearly didn't know the law as well as they ought to have done

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Still arrested.

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Originally Posted by FlyingJesus

No further information given so can't comment on this one. Half a point for you perhaps

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Tar.

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Originally Posted by FlyingJesus

To me they seem like human error and overcompensating on a personal level, which is indicated in the way that the law failed to prosecute a single one of them. Your odd views on morality which include "just because" and "well it's always been that way" (hint: those aren't sound arguments) do not and should not vindicate actual tyranny that is backed by law

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Seems to me that because Russian law on this matter doesn't back your relative and fluid view of what right and wrong is (aka a morality based on nothing other than what is good and pleases me me me), that Russia = bad with scary bear wrestling man in charge whereas Britain = compassionate, arresting people because we don't want to hurt the feelings of homosexuals, right?

Increasingly the British state on this matter is persecuting those who take issue with homosexuality morally (equality laws, anti-discrimination laws such as the B&B - which you can't wriggle out of) and it reeks of Russian style authority.

The only difference between the two increasingly hardline states is that at least Putin backs the worldwide notion of right and wrong.