The truths you can't tell in today's Britain

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

And the bolded part is my exact point. That's all i'm arguing.

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Then you must be clearer ;) Christianity is still getting used to women taking high positions in the church, and being open to the public. It's getting there but it has still got a few dated views.

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Originally Posted by The Don

Lol, American evangelical Christians were behind the "kill the gays" bill in Uganda, does that mean all Christians are bad? It's almost as if there are bad and good people all over the world, and following all sorts of religions. 1.6-2 Billion people should not be judged due to the actions of a small minority.

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There's not much point making that point to Dan, since he said that a large proportion of Romanians are criminals :P

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

And the bolded part is my exact point. That's all i'm arguing.



That's a tiny minority. Unlike...



A small minority? So are you here today arguing here with me that the majority of muslims look kindly on homosexuality and are against the death penalty/imprisonment for homosexual acts? yes/no

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You seem to misunderstand the point of my comparison. It was merely to show that you shouldn't judge an entire group of people due to the actions of a few.

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Originally Posted by Kardan

Indeed, some Islamic views are stronger than other views from other religions - but what can you do?

Get a bunch of middle aged white men telling a whole religion that their religion is wrong and they just stop following beliefs that their ancestors have been following for years?

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Well isn't that what Christians in the west who hold very liberal views on homosexuality but say might oppose gay marriage get told?

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Originally Posted by Kardan

I don't understand what people from other religions hope to achieve with Islam. Let's say I accept your views on Islam, that it has "very deep problems" - Now what? What happens next to Islam?

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That's all I wanted, the acceptance that they're not on the same level and that we stop pretending they are when it comes to extremism, violence, women's rights or gay rights. My major concern goes to Islamic immigration into western countries - the question being, do we want Islamic precepts here on homosexuality and women's rights? Because if we do, then we have to accept that it's going to turn into a very different country than the one it is now.

It's the same question the high-profile (and gay) Dutch politician Pim Fortuyn asked about the future of the Netherlands in terms of it's religious demography - ultimately he lost his life for asking those questions.

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Originally Posted by The Don

You seem to misunderstand the point of my comparison. It was merely to show that you shouldn't judge an entire group of people due to the actions of a few.

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I understood it very well and refuted it because it's a void comparison.

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Originally Posted by Kardan

There's not much point making that point to Dan, since he said that a large proportion of Romanians are criminals :P

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Quote me on that with a link and if I have accidently said all Romanians are criminals then i'll apologise and gift you with a +rep. If not and if you are referring to me pointing out that most ATM crimes in London are done by Romanian nationals (a fact) then i'd kindly ask you to take that accusation back and not twist my words in future.

White working class boys are at the bottom of the league tables, just to point out. As a white working class boy myself though, it is of course dangerous to start tarring everyone with the same brush. Liddle's article argues that there is something in the culture that enables this but is too lazy to point out what that actually is. For example, voter fraud amongst Pakistani communities. Is it possible that this is down to a good sense of community and supporting one another in these communities while white communities continue to disassociate themselves from their neighbours and isn't it this sense of community that you yourself support? Just food for thought as to how a negative consequence may actually be caused by something that we would class as a positive.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

I understood it very well and refuted it because it's a void comparison.

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Please explain to me how it's void? Are you suggesting a majority of muslims are violent/intolerant?

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Originally Posted by Inseriousity.

White working class boys are at the bottom of the league tables, just to point out. As a white working class boy myself though, it is of course dangerous to start tarring everyone with the same brush. Liddle's article argues that there is something in the culture that enables this but is too lazy to point out what that actually is. For example, voter fraud amongst Pakistani communities. Is it possible that this is down to a good sense of community and supporting one another in these communities while white communities continue to disassociate themselves from their neighbours and isn't it this sense of community that you yourself support? Just food for thought as to how a negative consequence may actually be caused by something that we would class as a positive.

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Do I support vote rigging in the name of community spirit (if you want to convince yourself thats what it is)? Errrrrrrrr no.

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Originally Posted by The Don

Please explain to me how it's void? Are you suggesting a majority of muslims are violent/intolerant?

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I'd certainly suggest the large majority of muslims are intolerant towards homosexuality, yeah.

In terms of violence, not that all or most support violence no - but there's certainly a large school of thought in Islam which does support public acts of violence such as the issuing of Fatwas, public whippings, public displays of punishment and so on.

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Originally Posted by GommeInc

I would say it is an insult to intelligence to conclude that Islam is a hateful religion and Christianity is a religion filled with love. Neither are clean cut, and you can't help but side with the atheists who just sit on the fence laughing at the hypocrisy organised religion has to offer.

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Please tell me of such atheists who 'sit on the fence', as I've never seen one :P

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Originally Posted by GommeInc

Then you must be clearer ;) Christianity is still getting used to women taking high positions in the church, and being open to the public. It's getting there but it has still got a few dated views.

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If we're going to point out dated views then surely Islamic views must be quite high up there? No disrespect intended, but the West is the safest part of the world to live in for a reason :).

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

Well isn't that what Christians in the west who hold very liberal views on homosexuality but say might oppose gay marriage get told?



That's all I wanted, the acceptance that they're not on the same level and that we stop pretending they are when it comes to extremism, violence, women's rights or gay rights. My major concern goes to Islamic immigration into western countries - the question being, do we want Islamic precepts here on homosexuality and women's rights? Because if we do, then we have to accept that it's going to turn into a very different country than the one it is now.

It's the same question the high-profile (and gay) Dutch politician Pim Fortuyn asked about the future of the Netherlands in terms of it's religious demography - ultimately he lost his life for asking those questions.



I understood it very well and refuted it because it's a void comparison.



Quote me on that with a link and if I have accidently said all Romanians are criminals then i'll apologise and gift you with a +rep. If not and if you are referring to me pointing out that most ATM crimes in London are done by Romanian nationals (a fact) then i'd kindly ask you to take that accusation back and not twist my words in future.

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No twisting.

http://www.habboxforum.com/showthrea...86#post8042886

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

Based on the crime figures from the Met Police, a large proportion of the Romanians who are here are criminal yes.

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Originally Posted by Ardemax

Please tell me of such atheists who 'sit on the fence', as I've never seen one :P

If we're going to point out dated views then surely Islamic views must be quite high up there? No disrespect intended, but the West is the safest part of the world to live in for a reason :).

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Loads of atheists laugh at religion. I meant literally like a nosey neighbour, not sit on the fence in a deciding sense, which would make them agnostic :P

Didn't say they were but I'd also disagree. There are many denominations to Islam. Completely blanketing Islam would be pretty stupid, as some are more liberal than others.