EU referendum could be held as early as 2016

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Originally Posted by Chippiewill

It's ok dan, I'm sure Mr Cameron will get some wishy washy concessions from the EU so that he doesn't have to bother, or he'll mess up the wording, or the campaign spending will be completely unbalanced or he'll do something stupid like letting non-uk nationals vote in the referendum.

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Indeed, much to be pessimistic about which is why i'm a pint half empty kinda guy. But still, there's always hope.

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Originally Posted by The Don

I can't wait for the public to vote no to leaving and for this to all blow over. If we do vote to leave however, then I think it would only be fair that Scotland should get another referendum since they are heavily pro eu.

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It's a myth that Scots are heavily pro-EU: http://www.heraldscotland.com/politi...eals.121574735 [...] I'm actually optimistic when it comes to SNP voters, as many of them having experienced the last referendum campaign will be immune to the scaremongering and lies put about by the Conservatives and Labour, so I reckon there's great potential among SNP voters to vote to leave even if their own party is pro-EU. And it is very interesting how you'd seemingly like to see your own country carved up just to benefit the EU. If England alone voted out but the others did not, would you then say England should be able to leave?

My biggest concern is how well Cameron manages to dress up his renegotiation failure. It all hinges on whether the public will buy it.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

Indeed, much to be pessimistic about which is why i'm a pint half empty kinda guy. But still, there's always hope.



It's a myth that Scots are heavily pro-EU: http://www.heraldscotland.com/politi...eals.121574735 [...] I'm actually optimistic when it comes to SNP voters, as many of them having experienced the last referendum campaign will be immune to the scaremongering and lies put about by the Conservatives and Labour, so I reckon there's great potential among SNP voters to vote to leave even if their own party is pro-EU. And it is very interesting how you'd seemingly like to see your own country carved up just to benefit the EU. If England alone voted out but the others did not, would you then say England should be able to leave?

My biggest concern is how well Cameron manages to dress up his renegotiation failure. It all hinges on whether the public will buy it.

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I wouldn't want to see the UK split up, but if the UK votes to leave the EU then Scotland deserve to have a fair say in the matter, not one that's watered down by the 50 million people living in England.

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Originally Posted by The Don

I wouldn't want to see the UK split up, but if the UK votes to leave the EU then Scotland deserve to have a fair say in the matter, not one that's watered down by the 50 million people living in England.

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Legally that is a nonsense as the United Kingdom is a unitary state, not a confederation.

But you didn't answer my question. Assume it was close in England yet the majority in England just about voted to leave, but in Scotland/Wales/Northern Ireland that swayed the total vote towards staying in - would you then allow England a 'fair say' on the matter?

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

Legally that is a nonsense as the United Kingdom is a unitary state, not a confederation.

But you didn't answer my question. Assume it was close in England yet the majority in England just about voted to leave, but in Scotland/Wales/Northern Ireland that swayed the total vote towards staying in - would you then allow England a 'fair say' on the matter?

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You know your point is rubbish when you start arguing technicalities. The 5 million people in Scotland voted to stay in a UK that is part of the EU. If the UK leaves the EU and the Scottish people would rather stay part of it then they should be entitled to that.

And to answer your question, yes. If England voted out and the others voted to remain within then just England should leave.

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Originally Posted by The Don

You know your point is rubbish when you start arguing technicalities. The 5 million people in Scotland voted to stay in a UK that is part of the EU. If the UK leaves the EU and the Scottish people would rather stay part of it then they should be entitled to that.

And to answer your question, yes. If England voted out and the others voted to remain within then just England should leave.

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Well fair enough at least you're applying some principle to your theory.

But like I said, it is a silly theory legally anyway as Scotland isn't a sovereign state and neither is England. On an international relations basis, any decision on something like this would be taken as the whole as the United Kingdom is a sovereign state and a member of the EU, not Scotland or England. It's that simple.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

Well fair enough at least you're applying some principle to your theory.

But like I said, it is a silly theory legally anyway as Scotland isn't a sovereign state and neither is England.

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Scotland is a country in its own right. It also has a separate legal system to England. You're arguing technicalities to deny a country of 5 million people the right to make a decision that will massively have an impact on them.

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Originally Posted by The Don

Scotland is a country in it's own right. It also has a separate legal system to England. You're arguing technicalities to deny a country of 5 million people the right to make a decision that will massively have an impact on them.

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Catalonia is also a 'country' as is Tibet yet neither are sovereign states.

Legally and constitutionally, Westminster is the centre of ultimate legal and political power in the entire United Kingdom.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

Catalonia is also a 'country' as is Tibet yet neither are sovereign states.

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Which is why they should have a referendum on whether they want England to make such a big decision for them.

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Originally Posted by The Don

Which is why they should have a referendum on whether they want England to make such a big decision for them.

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You can argue that politically or morally as the SNP leadership no doubt will but not legally.

I don't buy into it as I see this country as one, as we are a unitary state and not a confederation.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

You can argue that politically or morally as the SNP leadership no doubt will but not legally.

I don't buy into it as I see this country as one, as we are a unitary state and not a confederation.

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I was never arguing from a legal standpoint, which is why I pointed out how bad your argument was for being based entirely on technicalities.