Auschwitz: Major Witness Flaw

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Originally Posted by Jellyfish

my mistake, she was 15! but my recollection of her not being asked her age was right, so if irene seemed more adult then it's entirely possible that she slipped through the net and was bundled with the older children too.

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It's entirely possible that Mengele did group arrivals based on appearance, but I find it extremely unlikely it would have happened that way with anyone younger than 15. Remember, when Irma Menkel was asked by Anne Frank for cereal, she immediately thought "no, she's not a little kid". Meanwhile, when she learned Anne was 15, she was shocked because Anne looked more like a 12 year old. If Mengele was letting 14 year olds pass by ass 15, Anne should have been sent to the crematoria for passing by as 12.

PS: Intersocial, his is not an Anne Frank thread. I'm simply using her as an example in comparison with the Auschwitz narrative.

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Originally Posted by Red

She explains it in her account. Her parents were also gassed immediately despite being of working age.

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Red... I am going to invite you to watch Dario Gabbai's testimony, where he states the gas chamber capacity was 2000-2500 people, and that "there was no room for anything else but standing up". Surely Irene Zisblatt would have fit in a Birkenau gas chamber.

In response to point 1: Holy cow, so all you do is say "I'm 20", and you're safe? This is absolutely crazy, because she could have quietly passed this information to multiple others her age.

Mengele was also taking into account general health among arrivals.

How is it crazy. It is pretty obvious people escaped the chambers by giving a false age but this is irrelevant in her case since she claimed she was sent to the gas chambers but escaped.

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Originally Posted by Red

How is it crazy. It is pretty obvious people escaped the chambers by giving a false age but this is irrelevant in her case since she claimed she was sent to the gas chambers but escaped.

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It's crazy because like I told FlyingJesus in an earlier Auschwitz thread, people being sent to Auschwitz already knew the shower story in relation to the gas chambers. Of course, you could just say you were 20 and probably be brought aboard a train to the main camp, but what about those afraid of the block of death, or those aware of Krema 1? It doesn't make sense that people would go from one place to the other when conditions were just as bad at Auschwitz 1. EVen more so: Why would it matter if Mengele didn't give you his stamp of approval? He wasn't just examining age, after all.

Except people did believe the shower story :S Don't know what you are talking about. Are you saying people had a choice of which camp they went to? She arrived in 1944. The train tracks had been extended then right up to krema iii.

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Originally Posted by Red

Except people did believe the shower story :S Don't know what you are talking about. Are you saying people had a choice of which camp they went to? She arrived in 1944. The train tracks had been extended then right up to krema iii.

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So let me explain. When Birkenau gas chambers were in operation, at some point it got out that not all the showers were exactly safe. The gas chambers were disguised as shower rooms, so people were hearing via radio that instead of tap water, the gas came out through the pipes. The factory in your quote is referring to the main camp. This camp was nothing like Birkenau and had a post office, swimming pool, orchestra, brothel, etc. But with the lock of death and Krema 1, it still elicited fear. So, interpret the quote as, if you are 20, you can go to the main camp. You could be transferred over there, but the place would overcrowd, and you'd be sent back to Birkenau eventually. As for train tracks, I'm not sure what you're trying to ask or establish.

Oh God, here we go! As if Irene Zisblatt's story of being pushed out the door of an Auschwitz gas chamber was ridiculous enough, we have the story of one who SURVIVED an Auschwitz gassing. Because being poisoned, suffocated, in a ventilated room is survivable.

http://tinyurl.com/lxzx95h

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Originally Posted by Tallcoolguy700

So let me explain. When Birkenau gas chambers were in operation, at some point it got out that not all the showers were exactly safe. The gas chambers were disguised as shower rooms, so people were hearing via radio that instead of tap water, the gas came out through the pipes. The factory in your quote is referring to the main camp. This camp was nothing like Birkenau and had a post office, swimming pool, orchestra, brothel, etc. But with the lock of death and Krema 1, it still elicited fear. So, interpret the quote as, if you are 20, you can go to the main camp. You could be transferred over there, but the place would overcrowd, and you'd be sent back to Birkenau eventually. As for train tracks, I'm not sure what you're trying to ask or establish.

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I mentioned the train because I thought you were trying to say she would have been sent to main camp instead of birkenau. I still don't understand what you are on about though? Her only choice here was to live or die. She could lie about her age and be put to work or else be sent directly to her death in the gas chambers.

I'm not sure what you're asking for here. You've been shown that not all under 15s were immediately killed and just skipped over it

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Originally Posted by Red

I mentioned the train because I thought you were trying to say she would have been sent to main camp instead of birkenau. I still don't understand what you are on about though? Her only choice here was to live or die. She could lie about her age and be put to work or else be sent directly to her death in the gas chambers.

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The quote about Irene mentioning being sent to a factory that fed prisoners well was most likely referring to the main camp. Birkenau's work detail was generally out in the open, and the only nearby "factory" was Kanada 1, where women went through the luggage and belongings of arrivals. But, since Irene had been in both the death camp and the main camp, the quote must have meant the main camp in reference to the factory, which was more like a small town.

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Originally Posted by FlyingJesus

I'm not sure what you're asking for here. You've been shown that not all under 15s were immediately killed and just skipped over it

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The same person who mentioned the diary girl already checked the book and found she was 15 upon arrival. You on the other hand? No attempt to even try to source your claims.

Yeah you're totally right an article with multiple pictures of survivors and their photographs upon entry is no source at all...