Boris Johnson: Japan is "relaxed" about Britain leaving the EU

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Originally Posted by snr

Oh my. I am not grasping at individual examples. You boldly claimed Chinese people are uneducated, unskilled and therefore are incapable of making a quality product. You use car manufacturing as an example.

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Chinese people are on the whole lacking education and skills comparable to western nations such as Britain, yes. A simple look at wage rates would confirm this, or if I have to prove it with education statistics then https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_Index > 2013.

We have many needs of China (investment) and China has many needs from us, specialist education/skills and knowledge.

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Originally Posted by snr

Therefore I proved you wrong by stating that Range Rover who is as British as you are going to get have even opened a factory in China. In the past 30 years, the UK's manufacturing sector has shrunk by two-thirds.

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It has shruken as a proportion of the % of total British economy yes, that is what happens when an economy becomes advanced and moves towards the service sector. In much the same way that the agricultural industry in Britain has decreased as a proportion of the economy from say 50%+ in 1600 to a mere 2% now yet it is producing more and is wealthier than it has ever been. That's like basic economics.

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Originally Posted by snr

I used the example of Italian Marble to prove skilled labour at a cheap rate exists in countries like India and China because you seem to think the east has no skilled people (how ridiculous!).

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Did I claim there were absolutely no skilled people in the Orient? No of course not, so don't be pedantic. I did claim however, correctly as you'll see from the link above in regards to education, that China and other eastern economies do not have the skills or education that we have and that is why they buy high quality goods from Britain, Germany, America, Canada and so on because western goods are based more on high performance, specialisation and quality.

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Originally Posted by snr

The Chinese are on wages British people once were on. They are just in a phase we were once in.

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Indeed. Just like Japan in the 1960s and Hong Kong/Taiwan/Singapore in the 1980s.

And good. Deng Xiaoping bringing capitalism to China has lifted hundreds of millions of people out of agrarian poverty.

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Originally Posted by snr

It is not about being negative or positive. It is about being realistic. Simply being positive is what leads to failure in these situations, you need to be realistic. The EU helps our economy. I could say the same thing to you ... why aren't you being positive about the EU instead of your pessimism.

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You keep repeating the EU helps our economy but have yet to back up this claim. Instead, all you've done is spent the entire thread spouting untruths about the British economy as though we're pathetic and finished when we're the 6th biggest world economy, the leading financial power and the world's 8th manufacturing nation despite your untrue claims that all we export is air. We're also predicted, on current trends, to be the only European country left in the G10 by 2050.

The EU is shrinking as a % of the world economy, why would you want to chain Britain to a shrinking 1950s style trade bloc? It is madness.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

Chinese people are on the whole lacking education and skills comparable to western nations such as Britain, yes. A simple look at wage rates would confirm this, or if I have to prove it with education statistics then https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_Index > 2013.

We have many needs of China (investment) and China has many needs from us, specialist education/skills and knowledge.



It has shruken as a proportion of the % of total British economy yes, that is what happens when an economy becomes advanced and moves towards the service sector. In much the same way that the agricultural industry in Britain has decreased as a proportion of the economy from say 50%+ in 1600 to a mere 2% now yet it is producing more and is wealthier than it has ever been. That's like basic economics.



Did I claim there were absolutely no skilled people in the Orient? No of course not, so don't be pedantic. I did claim however, correctly as you'll see from the link above in regards to education, that China and other eastern economies do not have the skills or education that we have and that is why they buy high quality goods from Britain, Germany, America, Canada and so on because western goods are based more on high performance, specialisation and quality.



Indeed. Just like Japan in the 1960s and Hong Kong/Taiwan/Singapore in the 1980s.

And good. Deng Xiaoping bringing capitalism to China has lifted hundreds of millions of people out of agrarian poverty.



You keep repeating the EU helps our economy but have yet to back up this claim. Instead, all you've done is spent the entire thread spouting untruths about the British economy as though we're pathetic and finished when we're the 6th biggest world economy, the leading financial power and the world's 8th manufacturing nation despite your untrue claims that all we export is air. We're also predicted, on current trends, to be the only European country left in the G10 by 2050.

The EU is shrinking as a % of the world economy, why would you want to chain Britain to a shrinking 1950s style trade bloc? It is madness.

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Debating with you is like debating with a brick wall now a days.

"Did I claim there were absolutely no skilled people in the Orient? No of course not, so don't be pedantic. I did claim however, correctly as you'll see from the link above in regards to education, that China and other eastern economies do not have the skills or education that we have and that is why they buy high quality goods from Britain, Germany, America, Canada and so on because western goods are based more on high performance, specialisation and quality."

Comparing western education to eastern education? Seriously. Education in the East is now far superior to that of the West. I know from personal experience and the stats will easily back me up so I do not even need to go looking for one. Yes Britain currently produces high quality goods, but it is nonsense and outright stupid to think that Eastern countries cannot do so. You said we produce cars because they are incapable. I showed you they can build cars. Gosh if they can have skilled people for nuclear weapons, high rises, massive factories, you really think they cannot make anything we can? Wake up. Anything can be made in any country if someone sets their mind to it.

Difference between me and you? I am trying to be realistic. You are not. Once you become realistic, you make decisions which will benefit the country. I am not trying to be negative because I am from India. I have been brought up here, I have studied here and I will live here. I am British. But I would rather be realistic than live in a dream world.

I have already explained in the previous threads why EU helps the UK. You just ignore me and I am bored of repeating myself.

That's not fair, brick walls don't invent arguments and then claim to have won

so @snr; claims we aren't manufacturing much other than "air", i prove him wrong with official stats showing the opposite and yet i'm "inventing" the arguments.

he also claims that education levels in the east are superior to the west and i prove him wrong agains with official stats. yet i'm the brick wall.

lol alright then.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

so @snr; claims we aren't manufacturing much other than "air", i prove him wrong with official stats showing the opposite and yet i'm "inventing" the arguments.

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His actual claim with regards to air ("A fraction of the containers which come to UK go back with something inside. The rest just have air.") was not in any way countered or addressed by your figures about us making lots of money through manufacturing. You did not in any way show proof that his claim was wrong because you didn't post anything even distantly related to what he said, just a pdf that essentially concludes "we've made some stuff but not as much as we used to make. Cheers". Which is nice I guess, hooray for us if we made coin, but it's got sod all to do with what you were meant to be refuting. The original claim might be a load of bull, I don't know, but until one of you comes up with some figures and charts on the movement of empty shipping containers AND WHAT FUN THAT WILL BE you're both just flapping around throwing unrelated stats at each other from tangents so fine that they're almost invisible... in other words...

INVENTING ARGUMENTS

@FlyingJesus;

I didn't counter his claims about British manufacturing? I linked him and you to data showing we're the 8th largest manufacturing nation in the world.

Talk of 'empty' containers (product bulk is different to money actually made in exports/imports) isn't statistics or hard data you absolute plonker.


It'd be like if I traded you my £500m Diamond Crown (tiny in size but very valuable) for 900,00 bikes worth £4m. My shipment to you would be very tiny in size whereas yours would be many containers coming my way. It doesn't mean that just because something is bulky that it is somehow better/more profitable.

That's kinda what children learn at Christmas around age 7.

You can't ride that many bikes don't be silly.

And you're missing the point - neither you nor he have given any stats or figures whatsoever about what is actually made here, even though that's where the whole argument started. You can do so now if you feel like and that would be fab, but so far this is two pages of invented arguments from you both