Boy, 7, branded a racist

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...e-Africa.html#

Boy, 7, branded a racist for asking schoolmate: 'Are you brown because you come from Africa?'

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/...93_468x508.jpg
Summoned: Hayley White was called to her son Elliot's school to deal with the 'racist incident'

The lunatics have well and truly taken over the asylum.

Thoughts?

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It is interesting to compare the story in the local newspaper with that of the mail. It appears that even the local MP thought that 'common sense had been thrown out of the window' with which I agree.
http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/...rown_1_4264704
The mail appears to just have picked out bits that they knew would appease their readership.
It does show how some councils/schools do not apply any thought to implementation of any policies they have to implement as is obvious here. It is possible for racism to happen in schools but this is a bit silly.

When I was young though I asked a child in my class if he was born in africa and he just simply told me that his mum was born here. That boy lives in the same place as me and there isn't many black people really. There is a few more than there used to be, but that's why it's confusing. I used to get confused because we'd see black people on children in need etc yet there was only very few black people where I lived. The boy isn't at fault.

What a gaylord of a thing to post. Funny thing is we used to say that in primary school :P. I feel they're thinking to much of it and are frightened of something ever happening so blanking anything in relation to skin colour out. Fair play to his ma for not just signing the form.


There was this one black girl in our class that i didn't like 'cause our teacher allowed her to eat chips at lunch but we weren't allowed, so i thought it was unfair. Thinking back now the black girl did have one leg. BUT STILL! if one leg means you can eat chips, i give u my leg.

Poor kid. I can see how it could be seen as racist, but he's a 7 year old kid and it seems to me like it was a genuine question, and not something that was intended to be malicious.

If this IS true, then it's stupid. A 7yr old child was JUST asking a question.

Some people are just too over-reactive. xD

I suppose the question can be a bit offensive (only a bit though) but to brand the kid as a racist is ridiculous.

He's 7 years old.. I doubt he even knows what racist means! He's not racist, he's just curious and its stupid to think otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Jordy

Everyone on earth is from Africa "originally" but for hundreds of years black people have been found across central and north America as well as Europe (as I'm sure you're aware).

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Yes we know that, however we're talking about the recent last 1,000 years as opposed to doing a study in how the races evolved and where they come from. In general and common knowledge; black is the colour of Africa, yellow is the colour of Eastern Asia, brown is the colour of the Middle East, red is the colour of Natives around the Pacific, white is the colour of Europe and the west and so on.

If somebody is black in this country, they have (somewhere) down the line originated from Africa. As I say again, my friend is black and I asked him about his heritage when I first met him - why? not because i'm a racist, because i'm interested in his background. The very same way i've been asked whether i'm part Indian or from Southern Europe.

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Originally Posted by Jordy

It doesn't say anywhere in the article that he was going to be punished if it was signed? The boy was offended, made a complaint, the complaint was dealt with and he got a talking to. Nor was he ever accused of being a racist, merely a racist comment. If the boy had been excluded over this I could understand the uproar as he did make the comments innocently (That's not to say he didn't deserve a talking to however).

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Why is he being made to sign something then as an admission of guilt? its an innocent question, not racism.

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Originally Posted by Jordy

]It got boring for me when you bullied everyone else out the section by ridiculously arrogant and over the top posts of ridiculous lengths constantly and driving everyone to repeat their points constantly which is no fun to anyone (but yourself perhaps?). Now the only person in this section is yourself and people with similar views to yours, and it's no fun arguing with you for the reasons outlined and plus it's just predictable as I know your views on everything inside out.

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Thats not what others have said, indeed i've heard it said by a former General Manager that if I didn't post provoking discussions then the forum would end up being removed after a short while. Whether or not thats true remains to be seen although i'm very flattered, however i'm not going to post simply to agree with you all. Because I don't, and that would be dull.

Face it, you just don't like it now that whenever you complain about Labour - I chip in and say how 'the party' is just as bad. Indeed, since the Conservatives have been in office along with the run up to the election i've noticed a few Conservative Party supporters on this forum suddenly turn cold towards me when we got on just fine posting about how awful the Labour government was.

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Originally Posted by Jordy

I've never seen you back down or apologise in many years of using these forums, it's just something you claim to do to cover yourself, it doesn't occur.

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I've just admitted there i've backed down before when i've been wrong, EU cabbage directive - I thought it was real, its a viral joke - I was 100% damn diddly wrong.

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

It is interesting to compare the story in the local newspaper with that of the mail. It appears that even the local MP thought that 'common sense had been thrown out of the window' with which I agree.
http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/...rown_1_4264704
The mail appears to just have picked out bits that they knew would appease their readership.
It does show how some councils/schools do not apply any thought to implementation of any policies they have to implement as is obvious here. It is possible for racism to happen in schools but this is a bit silly.

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The Daily Mail story also quoted the local MP from what I recall however I left that out because otherwise when the posts are too long i'm accused, as above, of posting posts of a ridiculous length.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

Yes we know that, however we're talking about the recent last 1,000 years as opposed to doing a study in how the races evolved and where they come from. Black is the colour of Africa, Yellow is the colour of Eastern Asia, Brown is the colour of the Middle East, White is the colour of Europe and the west and so on.

If somebody is black in this country, they have (somewhere) down the line originated from Africa. As I say again, my friend is black and I asked him about his heritage when I first met him - why? not because i'm a racist, because i'm interested in it. The very same way i've been asked whether i'm part Indian or from Southern Europe.

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so you're basically saying because black people came from africa within the past 1000 years or whatever, there's nothing wrong with asking someone whose black "are you from africa?" or that assuming someone who is black is from africa ~because they came from there 1000 years ago? i mean, seriously? 1000 years...? black people should essentially associate themselves with africa because their ancestors within the past 1000 years came from there? this is too much ******y right now, and i swear the dumbest thing i've read from you. i'm going sleep|-).

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Originally Posted by dirrty

so you're basically saying because black people came from africa within the past 1000 years or whatever, there's nothing wrong with asking someone whose black "are you from africa?" or that assuming someone who is black is from africa ~because they came from there 1000 years ago? i mean, seriously? 1000 years...? black people should essentially associate themselves with africa because their ancestors within the past 1000 years came from there? this is too much ******y right now, and i swear the dumbest thing i've read from you. i'm going sleep|-).

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Well there's evidence of black people coming here from Roman times from what i've read in the past, however that was on such a small scale that any features from that would now have been so diluted since that we wouldn't even notice without a DNA test. No, the influx of people of black people has occured over the past 100 or 200 years, therefore its not only a legit question to ask somebody buts its also based in fact and genuine interest, not racism. I hate this political correctness nonsense we have to put up with, black people are in the minority concerning skin colour - therefore people will naturally ask questions concerning their heritage, just as I did.

So no, there's nothing wrong with asking people questions without malice intended - I still don't know myself where my black hair and darker skin has come from, it could of been within the past 200 years or a 1,000 years ago or even 2,000 years ago or maybe even its simply a mutation - either way its still interesting and I take no offence what so ever from it. Skin colour doesn't matter, but it naturally gives an indication of our heritage.

..and thats why people ask questions.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

Well there's evidence of black people coming here from Roman times from what i've read in the past, however that was on such a small scale that any features from that would now have been so diluted since that we wouldn't even notice without a DNA test. No, the influx of people of black people has occured over the past 100 or 200 years, therefore its not only a legit question to ask somebody buts its also based in fact and genuine interest, not racism. I hate this political correctness nonsense we have to put up with, black people are in the minority concerning skin colour - therefore people will naturally ask questions concerning their heritage, just as I did.

So no, there's nothing wrong with asking people questions without malice intended - I still don't know myself where my black hair and darker skin has come from, it could of been within the past 200 years or a 1,000 years ago or even 2,000 years ago or maybe even its simply a mutation - either way its still interesting and I take no offence what so ever from it. Skin colour doesn't matter, but it naturally gives an indication of our heritage.

..and thats why people ask questions.

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I really cannot believe you have said the part in bold. Unbelievable! Skin colour has had nothing to do with where they were born for many decades in some cases and centuries for others. Would anybody say to someone platinum blond are you from Scandanavia? It is the worst negative stereotype I can think of. I still don't blame the boy but he must have got this sort of attitude from somewhere even if he said it innocently.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

The Daily Mail story also quoted the local MP from what I recall however I left that out because otherwise when the posts are too long i'm accused, as above, of posting posts of a ridiculous length.

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If you are going to post a quote I suggest you don't edit it as it certainly changes the impression it gives.
Members are talking about the posts not the quotes! :P

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

I really cannot believe you have said the part in bold. Unbelievable!

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I don't see whats so shocking, I haven't said one is better than the other so whats so shocking about the statement that black skin and features come from the African continent? not shocking at all, its a fact.

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

Skin colour has had nothing to do with where they were born for many decades in some cases and centuries for others. Would anybody say to someone platinum blond are you from Scandanavia? It is the worst negative stereotype I can think of. I still don't blame the boy but he must have got this sort of attitude from somewhere even if he said it innocently.

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Not as much so, because blond hair is more common in this country due to heavier migration over the centuries from northern Europe therefore we are more naturally less inclined to ask questions about it. What you have to understand is (and if you believe in political correctness then you won't and can't) that when something that is unusual or in a small minority it will always be the subject of more interest.

That is just human nature, its not an 'attitude' nor is it racism.

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

If you are going to post a quote I suggest you don't edit it as it certainly changes the impression it gives.
Members are talking about the posts not the quotes! :P

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I'm not here to spoon feed members and then be slated, I do however at least provide them always with a link to one or two articles on the subject so there's no excuse.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

I don't see whats so shocking, I haven't said one is better than the other so whats so shocking about the statement that black skin and features come from the African continent? not shocking at all, its a fact.



Not as much so, because blond hair is more common in this country due to heavier migration over the centuries from northern Europe therefore we are more naturally less inclined to ask questions about it. What you have to understand is (and if you believe in political correctness then you won't and can't) that when something that is unusual or in a small minority it will always be the subject of more interest.

That is just human nature, its not an 'attitude'.



I'm not here to spoon feed members and then be slated, I do however at least provide them always with a link to one or two articles on the subject so there's no excuse.

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No it is manipulation of the text. I am surprised that you would do this. Again I cannot believe that is what you think and your explanation about not asking blond people where they are from is pure and utter ********.
Anybody asking people 'if they are from africa' just because of the colour of their skin shows complete and utter ignorance of the modern world. If this is combined with an unusual accent then that it is different. It is neither unusual and is not human nature - it is a negative stereotype which has no place in this day and age.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

Well there's evidence of black people coming here from Roman times from what i've read in the past, however that was on such a small scale that any features from that would now have been so diluted since that we wouldn't even notice without a DNA test. No, the influx of people of black people has occured over the past 100 or 200 years, therefore its not only a legit question to ask somebody buts its also based in fact and genuine interest, not racism. I hate this political correctness nonsense we have to put up with, black people are in the minority concerning skin colour - therefore people will naturally ask questions concerning their heritage, just as I did.

So no, there's nothing wrong with asking people questions without malice intended - I still don't know myself where my black hair and darker skin has come from, it could of been within the past 200 years or a 1,000 years ago or even 2,000 years ago or maybe even its simply a mutation - either way its still interesting and I take no offence what so ever from it. Skin colour doesn't matter, but it naturally gives an indication of our heritage.

..and thats why people ask questions.

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it's nothing to do with being politically correct, but rather not being ignorant. i can't see how people can't just ask "where are you from?", or "where are your family from?", "where do you originate from?", rather than "are you from africa?". that assumption that all black people are from africa (don't start as the 1000 years ago argument is preposterous :l) is just narrow-minded and that's what that question denotes. i didn't say/don't believe one is being racist when asking the question, but there are so many other places where black people are from, that to assume that they're from africa because they're black is just, as i said before (and i'm kinda repeating myself now) plain ignorant.

I just think that's utterly stupid, 7 year olds usually don't understand racism at that age..

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

No it is manipulation of the text. I am surprised that you would do this.

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Because when I don't shortern the articles down I get harangued as I was earlier on. Did you jump to my defence? no. I can't win either way.

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

Again I cannot believe that is what you think and your explanation about not asking blond people where they are from is pure and utter ********.

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If you can't understand that simple logic along with the history of migration into the British Isles then you're frankly a hopeless cause.

Why do you think racism exists? because when something is different it attracts more interest and thought, both negative and positive interest - its part of being human.

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

Anybody asking people 'if they are from africa' just because of the colour of their skin shows complete and utter ignorance of the modern world. If this is combined with an unusual accent then that it is different. It is neither unusual and is not human nature - it is a negative stereotype which has no place in this day and age.

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:rolleyes: ...it is a sterotype because it is true, those with more differing features to the majority will be asked more questions on where they originate from - whats negative about it? nobody at all is making that suggestion that black skin is a negative feature or something to be negative towards, well, nobody apart from you.

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Originally Posted by dirrty

it's nothing to do with being politically correct, but rather not being ignorant. i can't see how people can't just ask "where are you from?", or "where are your family from?", "where do you originate from?", rather than "are you from africa?". that assumption that all black people are from africa (don't start as the 1000 years ago argument is preposterous :l) is just narrow-minded and that's what that question denotes. i didn't say/don't believe one is being racist when asking the question, but there are so many other places where black people are from, that to assume that they're from africa because they're black is just, as i said before (and i'm kinda repeating myself now) plain ignorant.

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Sigh, yes thats how I as an adult would word the question. But in the case with this story, it is about a 7 year old is it not? and as you ought to know (which you evidently do not) that children do not understand language to the extent that we as adults do therefore will be more blunt when they ask questions.

I really can't believe i'm having to explain this.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

Sigh, yes thats how I as an adult would word the question. But in the case with this story, it is about a 7 year old is it not? and as you ought to know (which you evidently do not) that children do not understand language to the extent that we as adults do therefore will be more blunt when they ask questions.

I really can't believe i'm having to explain this.

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i thought we haven't been talking about the 7 year old for the longest time lmao, especially since you were using one of your examples of your friend. i've mentioned it in one of my first posts that the kid didn't mean any harm so i agree.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

Because when I don't shortern the articles down I get harangued as I was earlier on. Did you jump to my defence? no. I can't win either way.



If you can't understand that simple logic along with the history of migration into the British Isles then you're frankly a hopeless cause.

Why do you think racism exists? because when something is different it attracts more interest and thought, both negative and positive interest - its part of being human.

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Shortening an article is a lot different than manipulation of text to show your view. If it was something that had happened in the last twenty years I could understand your logic but migration to this country from all areas of the world is something that is not new, is not different and there is absolutely no reason to believe that it is a part of human nature to ask somebody of 'brown colour' if they are from Africa. It is sheer ignorance. As I said above if this was combined with an unusual accent then it is a part of human nature to ask where they are from. I spent quite a lot of time in the states when i was younger and I was asked that all the time. There is a huge difference in just making an assumption because of skin colour.

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:rolleyes: ...it is a sterotype because it is true, those with more differing features to the majority will be asked more questions on where they originate from - whats negative about it? nobody at all is making that suggestion that black skin is a negative feature or something to be negative towards, well, nobody apart from you.

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It is Dan and you know it and is used frequently to target ethnic minorites. I suggest you google this headline and see what Stormforce say about the article. Also I don't think Dirrty is too happy about your comments either.

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Sigh, yes thats how I as an adult would word the question. But in the case with this story, it is about a 7 year old is it not? and as you ought to know (which you evidently do not) that children do not understand language to the extent that we as adults do therefore will be more blunt when they ask questions.


I really can't believe i'm having to explain this.

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Nowhere am I blaming the child here but even to ask the question they must have heard this before - they don't think of questions out of thin air. You can't believe you having to explain this? :P LOL. I can't believe you are defending attitudes that disappeared from this Country decades ago for the majority of the people.

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

Shortening an article is a lot different than manipulation of text to show your view.

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I haven't manipulated it, I simply shortened it and excluded what the MP said on the matter - its not about party politics this article, so thats the least important part of it. Anywho, I provided the link.

But again, you go on about ignorance below - and you didn't even bother to click the link.

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

If it was something that had happened in the last twenty years I could understand your logic but migration to this country from all areas of the world is something that is not new, is not different and there is absolutely no reason to believe that it is a part of human nature to ask somebody of 'brown colour' if they are from Africa. It is sheer ignorance. As I said above if this was combined with an unusual accent then it is a part of human nature to ask where they are from. I spent quite a lot of time in the states when i was younger and I was asked that all the time. There is a huge difference in just making an assumption because of skin colour.

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But it is unusual, people of a black colour are of a small minority in this country - even smaller in some areas than others. As it turns out, my friend was from Africa (Kenya) along with his family (where else would they be from? black skin is a genetic trait that comes from Africa and migration from Africa is a recent trend of the past 60 years) and wasn't put out at all, rather we spoke about Kenya at length.

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

It is Dan and you know it and is used frequently to target ethnic minorites. I suggest you google this headline and see what Stormforce say about the article.

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So me asking my friend where his family originated from was me targeting an ethnic minority?

But you know whats the best part of all this, and it always appears to me to be true - its actually white politically correct do-gooders like yourself who end up being more 'offended' by situations like these than black people themselves. Indeed, black people themselves know they have originated from Africa and why? because the very obvious genetic trait of black skin comes from Africa.

Its all very clear stuff, unless you live on another planet.

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

Also I don't think Dirrty is too happy about your comments either.

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Well Dirty just admitted he got the wrong end of the stick.

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

Nowhere am I blaming the child here but even to ask the question they must have heard this before - they don't think of questions out of thin air. You can't believe you having to explain this? :P LOL. I can't believe you are defending attitudes that disappeared from this Country decades ago for the majority of the people.

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Children do ask questions out of thin air, they ask things like 'mummy why does that man have a funny face?' and all sorts of blunt and often loud questions. When I was younger I never stopped asking questions as my family told me, I remember my brother was facinated when he first saw a black man as was my cousin when my aunty had her black friend around - my cousin couldn't stop staring at him.

Why? because it isn't the usual in this country, and children don't have the mindset we have.

A 7 year old will barely know what racism is?! His mum is right, he will be inquisitive! In no way in that racist asking a question if you don't know the answer! It's racist if it's directly being offensive about the Africans skin colour, which he wasn't. Not asking a simple genuine question!

I honestly couldn't give a crap about racism. Let people say what they want, if the other person doesn't like it let them deal with it themselves. I do get pissed off with some black people, as I do white people. I've never really been one for racist terms though.

All this publicity over something he wouldn't even think twice about saying. Ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

Nowhere am I blaming the child here but even to ask the question they must have heard this before - they don't think of questions out of thin air. You can't believe you having to explain this? :P LOL. I can't believe you are defending attitudes that disappeared from this Country decades ago for the majority of the people.

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It's possible that he's seen the charity ads on TV where they're always black and saw a black person in class and just tried to connect the dots. That's the only explanation unless there are some bigoted people in his familywho casually say "they should all go back to Africa/Pakistan etc" (there are people like this in my family, lol they now say 'oh here goes michael, getting on his soapbox' cos I always call them out on it!) whenever immigration is mentioned.

Either way I don't think punishment is the answer. As dirrrrrrrrty says, it's ignorance so it's education that's neededalthough as they've seemed to move on from the 7 year old boy and talking generally, I do think it's the type of family I've mentioned above that causes the most damage and if there isn't anyone in that family with a braincell to argue against their bigotry, it's going to develop into adulthood.

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Originally Posted by Zak

I honestly couldn't give a crap about racism. Let people say what they want, if the other person doesn't like it let them deal with it themselves. I do get pissed off with some black people, as I do white people. I've never really been one for racist terms though.

All this publicity over something he wouldn't even think twice about saying. Ridiculous.

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There I was thinking someone had already won the *REMOVED* and then you came along and won it by a country mile.

Edited by Chris (Forum Moderator): Please do not be rude!

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Originally Posted by Jordy

There I was thinking someone had already won the *REMOVED* and then you came along and won it by a country mile.

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Well you can always try and retake the lead.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

Well you can always try and retake the lead.

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I'd hate to step into unfamiliar territory

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Originally Posted by Jordy

There I was thinking someone had already won the *REMOVED* and then you came along and won it by a country mile.

Edited by Chris (Forum Moderator): Please do not be rude!

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Why's that? If I didn't like you I would say something, it's just the way I am.

I thought freedom of speech was a good thing? White people are always getting slated for anything remotely racist, yet when the tables are turned no-one gives a ****. I still say what I want to people and they can say what they want back, people are far too easily offended in this day and age.

Plus all this racism malarky just enforces the fact that blacks are different from whites, which is obviously not the case...

Yeah, I've got friends from Bangladesh and the first time I asked him he replied without hesitating or suspicion. I think a teacher has overheard the conversation, **** their knickers and ran to the head teacher.

I've been in a few incidents involving racism which I think is pathetic considering my dad was in the police for 32 years and is the most anti-racist person I know.

Alternatively, the offended child could of simply answered "no" to avoid such a lengthy debate between us and over-zealous teachers who jump the gun and lack a grasp of the English language :P

To me, it just looks like Elliot asked the question in the wrong way, asking "where are you from?" may have been a slightly less offensive way of putting it, but then are seven year olds really famous for their tactfulness?