Praying and How It Helps (Or Most likely Doesn't)

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09-12-2006, 10:06 PM
Mentor

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan2nd

I mean death... :rolleyes: Everyone dies in the end and either goes to heven or hell ( well thats what I beleve) thats what i meant by destiny and its our free will and the choices we make which directs us to our last day on Earth so I don't think i was contridicting myself at all unless your suggesting we don't die? I think you knew what I meant and was just trying to find something to proove the point wrong =l

You are still contradicting yourself, free will, is freedom of the will, it doesnt effect the causal realtions of exstrnal events, that has nothing to do with destinty, destiny is predetermination of the will, the idea that are will is unable to effect exstranal events, thats like saying its impossible to wave my arm, becuse i wasnt "destined" to... i can wave my arm quite easly when i will it.
Someone is never destined to die, since being destined to would mean they would have to die at an exsact time in an exsact was that was predetermined. They may die one day, or the next, or have life saveing surgery and not die for many years "/

Quote:

no the topic starter said people who pray can't sort their own problems

I think guidence and probelms are diffrent

Why would you need guidence if you didnt have problems?
09-12-2006, 10:20 PM
Dan2nd

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedStratocas

Many people dont have that logic, thus why I hate it when people do that.

So you hate it when people pray? I don't get that :s

Quote:

Originally Posted by 01101101entor

You are still contradicting yourself, free will, is freedom of the will, it doesnt effect the causal realtions of exstrnal events, that has nothing to do with destinty, destiny is predetermination of the will, the idea that are will is unable to effect exstranal events, thats like saying its impossible to wave my arm, becuse i wasnt "destined" to... i can wave my arm quite easly when i will it.
Someone is never destined to die, since being destined to would mean they would have to die at an exsact time in an exsact was that was predetermined. They may die one day, or the next, or have life saveing surgery and not die for many years "/

Why would you need guidence if you didnt have problems?

Yes but everyone is still destined to death did I say on a certain day? I don't think I did maybe I chose the wrong choice of words ...

Guidence can be used in a problem but when I pray I seek guidence towards heven. I'm not suggesting others don't ask God to fix their problems because they most proberly do I was just saying what I do.

I pray because prayer is powerful and it moves God’s heart.
09-12-2006, 10:58 PM
Mentor

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan2nd

Guidence can be used in a problem but when I pray I seek guidence towards heven. I'm not suggesting others don't ask God to fix their problems because they most proberly do I was just saying what I do.

So its to solve the problem of hell, you needing help to get in to heven becuse you dont think god is good enough to already provide all the help you requre?

Quote:

I pray because prayer is powerful and it moves God’s heart.

Ok... every point i made for the last few pages? i take it you didnt read any right? i wasnt sure the logic was getting threw, now im definite it isnt.

God is perfect?

Yes?

A perfect god makes perfect choices?

yes?

Move gods heart/changeing his mind, means go did not make a perfect descion?

yes?

So since god is perfect you cannot change his mind (move his heart)

yes?

Well that or god has been perswaed to do a less perfect act, evil maybe, or he made a mistake... ether way it couldnt be god if it was becuse its trade of IMPERFECTION?

So preyer serves no purpos and is illogical?

yes?

and in fact is an affront to god, since it implys hes not perfect and not doing his job right (perfectly)

yes.
10-12-2006, 01:06 PM
Dan2nd
Quote:

Originally Posted by 01101101entor

So its to solve the problem of hell, you needing help to get in to heven becuse you dont think god is good enough to already provide all the help you requre?

Ok... every point i made for the last few pages? i take it you didnt read any right? i wasnt sure the logic was getting threw, now im definite it isnt.

God is perfect?

Yes?

A perfect god makes perfect choices?

yes?

Move gods heart/changeing his mind, means go did not make a perfect descion?

yes?

So since god is perfect you cannot change his mind (move his heart)

yes?

Well that or god has been perswaed to do a less perfect act, evil maybe, or he made a mistake... ether way it couldnt be god if it was becuse its trade of IMPERFECTION?

So preyer serves no purpos and is illogical?

yes?

and in fact is an affront to god, since it implys hes not perfect and not doing his job right (perfectly)

yes.

Lol you can have as many tantrums about this as you like and yes I have read your previous posts but why should your posts alter what I think is true? you said many times prayer is pointless, so that means I'm meant to giveup a life time of beleifs and just agree with you? I've also said in other threads I'm not the pope I don' know all the answers I just say what I think is true so you can't expect perfect answers from me because I'm still learning from my religion. Finally you can pick and poke at the beleifs as much as you like but I stick by this I pray because:
- We are invited to by God Himself.
- There is power there.
- It moves the heart of God.
- It connects us with God through Jesus.
- To invite God to be at work in our lives.
Prayer was designed by God to draw us to Himself.
10-12-2006, 02:29 PM
RedStratocas

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan2nd

So you hate it when people pray? I don't get that :s[/I][/B]

You REALLY need to pay attention to what I wrote, maybe actually read it? I said I hate it when people pray for physical things and pray for actual stuff to come to them, as opposed to praying for their soul and for themselves. So I hate it when people pray to win the lottery.
10-12-2006, 03:08 PM
Dan2nd

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedStratocas

You REALLY need to pay attention to what I wrote, maybe actually read it? I said I hate it when people pray for physical things and pray for actual stuff to come to them, as opposed to praying for their soul and for themselves. So I hate it when people pray to win the lottery.

So you were still saying you hate when people pray even if you didn't mean it as an overall thing .. and even if they do pray for physical things it seems a bit of a strange thing to hate about people.
10-12-2006, 04:10 PM
RedStratocas

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan2nd

So you were still saying you hate when people pray even if you didn't mean it as an overall thing .. and even if they do pray for physical things it seems a bit of a strange thing to hate about people.

Its my OPINION. Thats how the world works. I think it's wrong for people to think that if they just ask, they can get anything they want, and they can just sit on their butt all day long. And everything magically comes to them. We need less people who think that way in the world. Just my opinion.
10-12-2006, 04:19 PM
Dan2nd

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedStratocas

Its my OPINION. Thats how the world works. I think it's wrong for people to think that if they just ask, they can get anything they want, and they can just sit on their butt all day long. And everything magically comes to them. We need less people who think that way in the world. Just my opinion.

ok thats fair point I suppose
10-12-2006, 04:23 PM
Kaytti

I don't pray much. I meditate.
10-12-2006, 05:17 PM
Mentor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan2nd

Lol you can have as many tantrums about this as you like and yes I have read your previous posts but why should your posts alter what I think is true? you said many times prayer is pointless, so that means I'm meant to giveup a life time of beleifs and just agree with you? I've also said in other threads I'm not the pope I don' know all the answers I just say what I think is true so you can't expect perfect answers from me because I'm still learning from my religion. Finally you can pick and poke at the beleifs as much as you like but I stick by this I pray because:

We are invited to by God Himself.
There is power there.
It moves the heart of God.
It connects us with God through Jesus.
To invite God to be at work in our lives.

Prayer was designed by God to draw us to Himself.
Your answer basicly consists of this.
> i am to stupid to understand what your saying
> so i will ignore it completely to avoid having to think

Read your answer if you dont agree, thats exactly what your saying, i cant example this logic any more simply, this is the sort of stuff most 5 year olds can handle, theres nothing advanced here, no theology, no technical detail, just simple 2+2=4 logic.

A perfect being cant be wrong.
You can only prey if something is wrong.

It doesnt work. Dont even bother entering a debate if you are not even up to the challenger of understanding an oppents agurment.
Be ignorat in your own time, it is not a way to debate.

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