Brown portrays UKIP, BNP and the Conservatives as xenophobes on immigration

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Originally Posted by Hitman

It's stupid when the "thousands of Brits are in Spain" card is pulled out. Firstly, I would say nearly every British person in Spain has money. You do not go to Spain if you have no money or if you are looking for benefits (I'll come onto this next). You must have some money, even if it's a small amount. A lot of Brits in Spain are either rich and not working, or they are average and working (thus contributing to the Spanish economy).

In Spain they don't hand out benefits willy nilly: in fact, I don't think us Brits can get Spanish benefits... heck I don't know if Spain even has a benefits system! I never ever knew of any British people on benefits when I was in Spain. Maybe they were on British benefits but not Spanish ones.

So if you want to pull that card out think again. I would say 98% of the British living in Spain are contributing to the Spanish economy by either taking money to Spain or working in Spain - they spend what they earn in Spain and pay their Spanish taxes.

On the other hand, the immigrants coming into the UK tend to have no money. Many bring their families and claim benefits from them and live off of benefits. Some do work, but they send the money back to their home country (many Polish do this for example). They don't spend what they earn in the UK, they take it out of our economy.

I would love to write more but I am really busy with business matters.

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That had nothing to do with the benefits - I was trying to put the myth that all immigrants head for the UK which is blatently untrue. =]

Before I write out my reply I want to make it clear that I'm not going to take part in one of these big discussions you and the others usually have that take up pages.

I cannot give you cold hard evidence, no, but I can tell you from experience that there weren't as many benefits, or at least they were not advertised everywhere like they are here. For example, EMA, I do not believe there's the equivalent of that in Spain. My dad wasn't earning much money and was in fact unemployed when we first got to Spain and there were no benefits for us, however here there would be. Yes you're right about them doing that, and I am pretty sure it's illegal too. The Government should be monitoring where they are or whatever (passports are now scanned).

It's not rubbish. :S A lot of poor Polish people come to the UK looking for work so they can send back money to Poland. I will agree that there are immigrants with money, but there are probably a lot more without. This has declined though due to the exchange rate.

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Originally Posted by alexxxxx

most brits in spain are retired or resident for part of the year.


can you give me some evidence that spain 'doesn't give out benefits willy nilly' - of course they have a benefits system, every western country has one, including spain who have unemployment. and british people claiming benefits in britain does happen - and it's illegal afaik.

have you maybe thought that that happens in england too? 'Immigrants to the UK tend to have no money' - what rubbish. You ever heard of the THOUSANDS of students that come here and effectively top-up british people's university fees or the other thousands that live and work in the city of london or generally hold down jobs. What rubbish. In Spain they have a lot of people who come from south america looking for work and illegal immigrants from north africa. They send money home.

and undertaker you must be completely unaware about how people from outside the EU become 'immigruntz' because a VISA/Work Permit is always required. there is no sort of visa-less immigrant apart from an illegal immigrant.

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Originally Posted by alexxxxx

and undertaker you must be completely unaware about how people from outside the EU become 'immigruntz' because a VISA/Work Permit is always required. there is no sort of visa-less immigrant apart from an illegal immigrant.

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They get the visa, and once they are here they simply disappear!

Just to back up the point about the Polish, look here. (I'm sure there's more but I cba to trundle through Google - you can if you want).

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/387413-p...itish-benefits

They were getting classes on how to get benefits... looks like they only came for benefits? My point is that many immigrants to the UK come because of the generous handouts. Many also come for jobs, to study and that too, but the fact is a lot come because benefits here pay more then in their home country. The immigrants to Spain (the British at least, but many Germans and Dutch people too) go for the weather/lifestyle. They tend to take a load of money with them and pump money into the Spanish economy. The immigrants coming to the UK for benefits do not. They bring nothing and take away whatever they're given. They do not spend that money here because things are expensive here, at one time they could get three times as many loafs of bread in Poland than here, so they sent it back.

I really shouldn't have bothered posting because I've wasted so much time that I don't have to waste.

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Originally Posted by Hitman

Before I write out my reply I want to make it clear that I'm not going to take part in one of these big discussions you and the others usually have that take up pages.

I cannot give you cold hard evidence, no, but I can tell you from experience that there weren't as many benefits, or at least they were not advertised everywhere like they are here. For example, EMA, I do not believe there's the equivalent of that in Spain. My dad wasn't earning much money and was in fact unemployed when we first got to Spain and there were no benefits for us, however here there would be. Yes you're right about them doing that, and I am pretty sure it's illegal too. The Government should be monitoring where they are or whatever (passports are now scanned).

It's not rubbish. :S A lot of poor Polish people come to the UK looking for work so they can send back money to Poland. I will agree that there are immigrants with money, but there are probably a lot more without. This has declined though due to the exchange rate.

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Less than 3% of the Polish population claim benefits. They do work that most of the British workforce won't even entertain. Also, yes I do agree that they send money home but of course they contribute to the British Economy by paying tax and insurance and while they are here they have to live so there is food, rent so on and so on. =]

This is quite a good guide on the Social Security benefits available in spain. I agree that it does not seem as comprehensive as the UK.

http://spain.othercountries.com/page...ocial-security

Gordon Brown has not the been the best prime minister we have ever had and I have said that on more than one occasion in this section but there is not a great deal of difference in all three really but nohing is now going to be done before the election and if people vote then whoever is elected will see the issues that they feel strongly about and hopefully do something about it particularly the waste of money in the EU.

The problem with this country is apathy. Many people complain but they don't bother to vote.

I'm sorry, am I missing something here? Saying the BNP are xenophobic are like saying fire trucks are red. There's nothing wrong with pointing out a usually undisputed truth.

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Originally Posted by HotelUser

I'm sorry, am I missing something here? Saying the BNP are xenophobic are like saying fire trucks are red. There's nothing wrong with pointing out a usually undisputed truth.

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Just pointing it out, but did you know that the BNP, Labour Party, Conservative Party and the Liberal Democrats all have candidate shortlists based on race and/or the gender of someone?

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

Well I guess you will be voting conservative or UKIP then :)

I have to say that quoting from naturally right wing papers isn't always going to get a measured view. I do try to read both right wing and left wing papers.

Whilst your views are respected I feel they are quite harsh. Less than 3% of eastern europeans who have migrated here claim benefits. In fact their work ethic is probably better than our own. Labour has worked quite hard to combat the benefit culture by abolishing both incapacity benefit and job seekers allowance for 16 - 18 years old. Less than 10% of the population were not born here so technically are immigrants. This is not going to make a great deal of difference in an election especially they have to have British Citizenship which can take years.

Some facts:

Migrants

All foreign nationals must have a national insurance number to claim benefits. Some EU
citizens are entitled to claim as long as they are working or actively seeking work and
have an NI number. Citizens from the new EU countries (A8) are not entitled to benefits
until they have been here at least two years or are registered with the government
Registration Scheme. To register they must have a job. After a year of employment they
may be eligible for certain state benefits - child benefits, tax credit, housing benefit and
housing accommodation. People from other countries must have special work permits
and cannot generally claim benefits.

Illegal immigrants

They are not entitled to any benefits.

Asylum Seekers
They are not entitled to benefits.


What rights do they have to housing?

Migrants

If they have an NI number, have a right to be in the UK and are residents of the UK they
may go on the housing register. If ‘A8’ migrant workers seek housing accommodation
during their first year Arun DC are not obliged to provide any assistance. After one year
in the UK providing they are in permanent legal employment, A8 migrants have the
same rights as UK residents and can apply for housing assistance and will be eligible to
join the housing register. In all cases migrant workers get no preferential treatment and
their need is assessed in the same way as anyone else who applies. ☛

Illegal immigrants

They are not entitled to housing.

Asylum Seekers

They are not entitled to housing. They are housed through NASS or privately

Migrants

Generally they have the right to register as an NHS patient with a doctor if they are here
for a settled purpose (i.e. are intending to be resident here for six months or over). If
they are not residents then they are treated as private patients.

Illegal immigrants

They cannot register as an NHS patient and will only be treated in an emergency by a
hospital or GP.

Asylum Seekers

They have the right to register as an NHS patient at a GP surgery.

Myth
All the immigrants come to Britain - we are way down the table.

Fact
Switzerland has one of the highest percentage of immigrant population in Europe with nearly 23% of its total population (1.5 millions of immigrants). Latvia (19%), Estonia (15%), Austria (15%), Ukraine (15%), Croatia (15%), Cyprus (14.3%), Ireland (14%), Moldova (13%), Germany (12%), Sweden (12%), Belarus (12%), Spain (11.4%), France (10%), and the Netherlands (10%)Italy (8.4%), United Kingdom (8.9%), Greece (8.6%), Russia (8.4%), Italy (8.4%) ,Slovenia (8.3%), Norway (7.4%), Portugal (7.2%), Denmark (7.1%), Iceland (7.6%), , Belgium (6.9%)

The British population in Spain is over 8% and Britains can claim benefits.

Social Security Benefits and Emigrating Within the EU
If you’re moving within the EU, you’re normally able to carry on receiving similar benefits to that which you received in the UK. You will be insured for social security purposes in the country you work in and are allowed to receive the same kind of benefits of nationals of that country. In order to do this, you must of course contribute at the same level as members of your new nation. This can be extremely beneficial, as it will entitle you to the rights of sickness and maternity benefits, work accident cover, unemployment supplements, family allowances and more. For countries that are within the EEA, you should have no problem with receiving comparable benefits.


Personally I feel that both posts show only the headline stories that people who vote for the righter
wing parties will be interested in and want to believe and perhaps should be a but more measured.
I am not a fan of Gordon Brown myself as he is a ditherer but tbf any prime minister faced with the global recession of this magnitude would be under pressure. I am also not a big fan of the EU either
but unless the right wing start being a bit less hysterical in their arguments (I don't mean the conservatives) they are not going to persuade the people able to sanction a referendum to do so.

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We had a council estate here a few years back that gave houses and flats unfurnished to the UK citizens but they were fully furnished for the immigrants. You say they must be normal immigrants but when they were mainly larger families of somalians who did not work I can only presume they arrived here as illegals because they did not have a thing to offer otherwise.

Lots of countries do have immigrants but we are the one with soft touch laws and a good benefit system so all the scum come running here. Lets go to the UK they give you a free house and free money :o they should get jack **** and the assylum seekers should get housed in old army bases fenced in and shipped home as soon as the time is right.

Did you know a fear of your life lets you claim asylum? Women are rolling up here from safe countries and claiming they are battered wives and once they get allowed to stay then their so called violent husband rolls up and they are now back in love and he gets to stop. People turn up from decent countries and claim they will be killed because they are gay so they get to stop.

I suggest we get gun towers in the docks and channel tunnel in calais and as soon as an illegal has scaled a fence and is in the compound they should be machine gunned (sounds like my perfect job)

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

Sorry, Dan I do not want to debate this subject with you as it just turns into a never ending arguement where things are continually repeated which is why I quoted Jrh and MissAlice.

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Is this positive discrimination?

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Originally Posted by Hitman

It's stupid when the "thousands of Brits are in Spain" card is pulled out. Firstly, I would say nearly every British person in Spain has money. You do not go to Spain if you have no money or if you are looking for benefits (I'll come onto this next). You must have some money, even if it's a small amount. A lot of Brits in Spain are either rich and not working, or they are average and working (thus contributing to the Spanish economy).

In Spain they don't hand out benefits willy nilly: in fact, I don't think us Brits can get Spanish benefits... heck I don't know if Spain even has a benefits system! I never ever knew of any British people on benefits when I was in Spain. Maybe they were on British benefits but not Spanish ones.

So if you want to pull that card out think again. I would say 98% of the British living in Spain are contributing to the Spanish economy by either taking money to Spain or working in Spain - they spend what they earn in Spain and pay their Spanish taxes.

On the other hand, the immigrants coming into the UK tend to have no money. Many bring their families and claim benefits from them and live off of benefits. Some do work, but they send the money back to their home country (many Polish do this for example). They don't spend what they earn in the UK, they take it out of our economy.

I would love to write more but I am really busy with business matters.

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I have a place in Tenerife that I am buying and you are right :o there are benefits systems but theres a slim to no chance of us immigrants getting on it :o us brits abroad work for a living or as you say spend if we are just there for the weather. We would not dream of going to a country and taking advantage of their good nature. We go abroad and fit in with their cultures and laws wherever it is (I am not including the idiot holiday makers running riot here but they do get dealt with strongly) I only rent in the UK because I am not being tied down to this **** hole and if gordon wins the next election I will be off to the sun and pay my tax in a country where I feel its spent on what it should be.

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

That had nothing to do with the benefits - I was trying to put the myth that all immigrants head for the UK which is blatently untrue. =]

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We have some amazing immigrants here with what they have acheived like Al-Fayed, Stellios ex easy jet guy and lots more and the people who come to work hard and better themselves are more than welcome :) the free loaders here for free living are the ones who we want sorting out. Saying that how many immigrants will come here to make their fortune now? it seems anybody who tries to make something of themself is beaten down and persecuted by jealous labour as they are now rich...... no wonder lots of the big businesses who can move their operations abroad or partially abroad are doing so. We should look after the people who make us the money and employ lots of people but no we tax them so much they clear off abroad with their cash and then all that money now lost needs to be made up for by the poorer ppl left here.

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

Less than 3% of the Polish population claim benefits. They do work that most of the British workforce won't even entertain. Also, yes I do agree that they send money home but of course they contribute to the British Economy by paying tax and insurance and while they are here they have to live so there is food, rent so on and so on. =]

This is quite a good guide on the Social Security benefits available in spain. I agree that it does not seem as comprehensive as the UK.

http://spain.othercountries.com/page...ocial-security

Gordon Brown has not the been the best prime minister we have ever had and I have said that on more than one occasion in this section but there is not a great deal of difference in all three really but nohing is now going to be done before the election and if people vote then whoever is elected will see the issues that they feel strongly about and hopefully do something about it particularly the waste of money in the EU.

The problem with this country is apathy. Many people complain but they don't bother to vote.

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I would love to see how many brits get benefits abroad I would assume its less than 1% and imagine me going in to a foreign job center and then demanding an interpreter lol If you cant speak the language of the country you are in then you dont deserve to get any help at all.
I dont know any brit abroad who claims benefit abroad and think thats how it should be here in the UK (of course theres brits there getting their benefits in their uk bank accounts and draw it out in euros lol they are benefits cheats yes but why doesnt the government stop this?)

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Originally Posted by HotelUser

I'm sorry, am I missing something here? Saying the BNP are xenophobic are like saying fire trucks are red. There's nothing wrong with pointing out a usually undisputed truth.

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I dispute this so called truth :o Yes there are racist idiots in the BNP as there are in all parties. The BNP is a recognised political party looking after the interests of the british tax payer and not just the WHITE british tax payer. If the party was just a racist mob then they would have been banned but for all the attempts to get rid of them they are just getting stronger and thats not from them getting better but more that the big parties are ignoring lots of the big issues the public want them to address.

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Originally Posted by jrh2002

I have a place in Tenerife that I am buying and you are right :o there are benefits systems but theres a slim to no chance of us immigrants getting on it :o us brits abroad work for a living or as you say spend if we are just there for the weather. We would not dream of going to a country and taking advantage of their good nature. We go abroad and fit in with their cultures and laws wherever it is (I am not including the idiot holiday makers running riot here but they do get dealt with strongly) I only rent in the UK because I am not being tied down to this **** hole and if gordon wins the next election I will be off to the sun and pay my tax in a country where I feel its spent on what it should be.

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Oh lovely, bad-talk the UK, call it a poo hole because of the immigrants, then go off to spain for work, presumably - but i don't know - without a guarantee of a job in a country with stupidly high unemployment, which is only possible because of the EU and then put an EU flag with a nazi symbol in the middle. If you seem to think britain isn't worth being here - why are you?

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Originally Posted by alexxxxx

Oh lovely, bad-talk the UK, call it a poo hole because of the immigrants, then go off to spain for work, presumably - but i don't know - without a guarantee of a job in a country with stupidly high unemployment, which is only possible because of the EU and then put an EU flag with a nazi symbol in the middle. If you seem to think britain isn't worth being here - why are you?

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The UK is my country and its been run in to the ground by a bunch of people who spend money like a kid in a sweetshop but at least the kid in the sweetshop was using his own money or money given to him for that reason. The UK is where I was born and pay ALL my taxes which I can assure you add up to more than a lot of people earn in a year. I am self employed but the nature of my business means I can earn my money based anywhere in the world :) The UK can easily prosper by a trade agreement with other european countries and not by us giving the EU Billions a year (A small minority of coutries pay in to the EU and the majority take out) The EU flag with the swastika is showing my disapproval of the EU forcing their crazy laws on us or over ruling our UK laws as well as the euopean court of human rights that stick their noses in to our justice system and helping the criminals out.

Look at lord Ashcroft and him not paying UK taxes on his overseas earnings :o When hes opposed to the people in power and looking at how they waste can you blame him not paying UK tax on money he has earned abroad? I am buying abroad as an investment and rent it out at a reduced price but only to people i know :) As I say I pay all my tax in the UK but if labour get in again I will be going abroad and will pay my tax to a more deserving country :) Not sure how you say if it was not for the EU we could not go abroad :s If we have something to offer and are going to pay our way most countries in the world will take us......