Microsoft office genuine advantage

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Originally Posted by Barmi

If you're careful, you can also go into a shop and take some clothes for free. You can take food from Tesco without paying too.

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Originally Posted by Android

People say pirating £30 is fine, yet they wouldn't like it if they were let's say Nike, and they opened a shop and everyone kept stealing their £30 shoes.

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Pirating software is not like stealing things from a shop. If you steal from a shop, that shop has lost something that they could have sold to someone, so you are actually stealing.
Pirating is making a copy of the software, it doesn't affect the company's ability to sell it to someone else (some exceptions to this if you want to be picky) so the company doesn't really lose out much.

Note: I don't illegally download software or even music, but that argument just annoys me.

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Originally Posted by Trinity

Pirating software is not like stealing things from a shop. If you steal from a shop, that shop has lost something that they could have sold to someone, so you are actually stealing.
Pirating is making a copy of the software, it doesn't affect the company's ability to sell it to someone else (some exceptions to this if you want to be picky) so the company doesn't really lose out much.

Note: I don't illegally download software or even music, but that argument just annoys me.

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Your distinction doesn't make sense.

Regardless of whether we're on about tangible goods or intellectual property, it's still a loss of a potential sale. (On a definitional note, loss of potential is a valid loss in UK contract law.) You seem to have a total disregard for intellectual property law. Just because something is available in a digital format, it doesn't suddenly mean you have a God-given entitlement to it for free, leaving only the good samaritans to pay. You're skating on dangerous paths with that argument.

To give you a more analogous example: newspapers. There are free newspapers available, but aren't quite the same quality as the ones you would pay for. Do you feel entitled to steal newspapers? (Bar a few popular exceptions, shops don't 'run out' of newspapers.)

Edit: As others have pointed out in this thread, OpenOffice.org is perfectly fine. It has many features Microsoft Office has, only less glossy. If you need Microsoft Office, there's a lovely inexpensive student option or the Home option for ~£100.

When people need something in life, they damn well make sure to sacrifice things they don't need. If you need to buy a software package, then don't buy CDs for a month. Or just don't buy that new pair of jeans you wanted. *shrug* Some people (most are kids who haven't had a job) have a general sense of entitlement, believing everything digital should belong to them for no cost. It's ridiculous and gets on my ****. Join the working world and realise that many things have an intrinsic value.

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Originally Posted by Barmi

When people need something in life, they damn well make sure to sacrifice things they don't need. If you need to buy a software package, then don't buy CDs for a month. Or just don't buy that new pair of jeans you wanted. *shrug* Some people (most are kids who haven't had a job) have a general sense of entitlement, believing everything digital should belong to them for no cost. It's ridiculous and gets on my ****. Join the working world and realise that many things have an intrinsic value.

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This bit makes me laugh the most. I download pretty much everything illegal (bar the whole sims collection and wow) But yes music, adobe products etc. You say us kids have no sense of entitlement? :L
Mate i work my ******* ass off to make money as well as still studying :) I have my own money which i spend on stuff i WANT, my parents also spend money on me on things i WANT and NEED.
I bet you have downloaded a SINGLE illegal item before. :)

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Originally Posted by SkyeLite

This bit makes me laugh the most. I download pretty much everything illegal (bar the whole sims collection and wow) But yes music, adobe products etc. You say us kids have no sense of entitlement? :L
Mate i work my ******* ass off to make money as well as still studying :) I have my own money which i spend on stuff i WANT, my parents also spend money on me on things i WANT and NEED.
I bet you have downloaded a SINGLE illegal item before. :)

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I think the argument is some people download the occasional song (I haven't done myself in months) when they don't have a debit/credit hard to hand - and it is quicker if you only have a debit card to download a 5mb file than it is to go to a bank and et money out (all be it under £1). That was the reason I last did, and even then I only downloaded it and never used it again :L

And thats hypocritical.. you say I have money to get things I 'WANT' - yet last time i checked the reason you to steal things is because you WANT them. So erm..

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I agree with Barmi on this on, why is it people think because you can buy songs digitally now you re ENTITLED to get them for free. An last time I checked a lot of the stuff like Office etc people buy only comes with a disc - so surely that is something you physically own.

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Originally Posted by Android

I think the argument is some people download the occasional song (I haven't done myself in months) when they don't have a debit/credit hard to hand - and it is quicker if you only have a debit card to download a 5mb file than it is to go to a bank and et money out (all be it under £1). That was the reason I last did, and even then I only downloaded it and never used it again :L

And thats hypocritical.. you say I have money to get things I 'WANT' - yet last time i checked the reason you to steal things is because you WANT them. So erm..

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Nah. I WANT other stuff likes clothes etc. I also WANT music for free.
If there is an easy way to get something for free then why pay for it? :)

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Originally Posted by SkyeLite

Nah. I WANT other stuff likes clothes etc. I also WANT music for free.
If there is an easy way to get something for free then why pay for it? :)

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It's easy to walk in a shop and take a chocolate bar.

I still pay for it.

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Originally Posted by SkyeLite

Nah. I WANT other stuff likes clothes etc. I also WANT music for free.
If there is an easy way to get something for free then why pay for it? :)

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You wouldn't be saying that if a letter was put through your lettbox tomorrow morning asking you to fess up £3000+++ ;)

But either way, that's a rediculous attitude to take, fair enough if you cant pay for it or you dont have a card or something because really, the companies aren't losing out because it isn't a "potential sale" at all, but when you can pay for something and it's something you want, buy it.

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Originally Posted by Barmi

Your distinction doesn't make sense.

Regardless of whether we're on about tangible goods or intellectual property, it's still a loss of a potential sale. (On a definitional note, loss of potential is a valid loss in UK contract law.) You seem to have a total disregard for intellectual property law. Just because something is available in a digital format, it doesn't suddenly mean you have a God-given entitlement to it for free, leaving only the good samaritans to pay. You're skating on dangerous paths with that argument.

To give you a more analogous example: newspapers. There are free newspapers available, but aren't quite the same quality as the ones you would pay for. Do you feel entitled to steal newspapers? (Bar a few popular exceptions, shops don't 'run out' of newspapers.)

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I don't have a total disregard for intellectual property law at all, if I did then I would illegally download stuff, but I don't. I apologise if the way I worded it didn't get my point across properly.
I don't agree with illegally downloading anything, I completely agree with what you said about people sacrificing the things they don't need, or just choosing a less glossy, free alternative. What I was trying to say was that I don't agree with pirating being likened to stealing something physical from a shop.
I like your newspaper analogy, I've never seen it put that way before.

The 'loss of potential' part interests me. I'm not sure how it's seen by law, but would an illegal downloader (who would never pay for it anyway) really count as a potential sale?
There was something else I wanted to say but I can't remember what it was.

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Originally Posted by Trinity

I don't have a total disregard for intellectual property law at all, if I did then I would illegally download stuff, but I don't. I apologise if the way I worded it didn't get my point across properly.
I don't agree with illegally downloading anything, I completely agree with what you said about people sacrificing the things they don't need, or just choosing a less glossy, free alternative. What I was trying to say was that I don't agree with pirating being likened to stealing something physical from a shop.
I like your newspaper analogy, I've never seen it put that way before.

The 'loss of potential' part interests me. I'm not sure how it's seen by law, but would an illegal downloader (who would never pay for it anyway) really count as a potential sale?
There was something else I wanted to say but I can't remember what it was.

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Loss of a prospect usually only applies in contract law and the tort of negligence. What we're talking about here is criminal liability, so it's an irrelevant consideration for either physical or intellectual property.

Regardless of whether you're stealing from a shop or infringing upon someone's intellectual property rights, they're both criminal offences (covered by the Theft Act 1968 and the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 respectively).

Before someone suggests that theft is different from infringing upon someone's intellectual property rights, don't. I could have a conversation all night about property rights ranging right back from ancient Rome. The statutory offence of theft is to protect an individual's property rights. The statutory offences under the CDPA 1988 are to protect an individual's intellectual property rights.

I hope that makes things a little clearer. ^_^

Thanks to whoever suggested the registry hack I'll have a look for that now.

@the person who said download it from TPB, i did and now it's flagged as not genuine :(

I didn't know you could get it for £30 as a student, but still, I don't see the point in buying 03 for £30 with its limited features compared to 07 which i could also get for £30, but I can't get 07 as it's only currently supported in half the school and saving as an 03 file defeats the object of having the advanced featured of 07 (if you catch my drift :P)

+, as if bill needs my money :D