Netherlands overturns draconian smoking ban

lol dan i can't see how you can run the 'big government' argument here. banning people from smoking, which is dangerous to others, from public places is nothing but common sense. i hold no grudges against people who smoke either, but don't moan when you have to go outside for a tab because it's unfair on non smokers to be polluted with second hand smoke which doesn't need to be there. i hope it has made a lot of people reconsider smoking.

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Originally Posted by R0BB13G

Of course I can, and I agree with you in that thread because you are right - people buy pets in the knowledge that for a few days a year fireworks will go off and make them nervous/scared. If they're not prepared to put up with that then they shouldn't buy them.

But back on topic; the things you listed (fatty foods, alcohol ect.) do not affect anyone except the consumer. Whereas smoking does. The smoke when they are not inhaling drifts throughout the pub/restaurant and is inhaled by other people who are then affected by it. Regular pub visitors who don't smoke may get signs of smoker - for example the smokers cough, due to large amounts of inhaled second-hand smoke. With drinking/fatty foods that doesn't happen.

That's why - smoking affects other people's health without their consent and it shouldn't be allowed to happen. Imo; smoking should be banned completely but that won't happen because the Government makes too much tax from it.

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So then why are you complaining? most of us consume these things, including the anti-smoking brigade - the the argument about health completely goes out of the window. If someone were so concerned about health, they certainly wouldn't be in a pub drinking alcohol and eating a big greasy pub meal. So you still haven't answered my point that you can make your own choices.

It is like my argument with the pets - if you don't like seeing them in distress on bonfire night, dont buy a pet in the first place.
Argument with the smoking ban - if you don't like smoking, then don't go to a pub which allows smoking.

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Originally Posted by Bun

lol dan i can't see how you can run the 'big government' argument here. banning people from smoking, which is dangerous to others, from public places is nothing but common sense. i hold no grudges against people who smoke either, but don't moan when you have to go outside for a tab because it's unfair on non smokers to be polluted with second hand smoke which doesn't need to be there. i hope it has made a lot of people reconsider smoking.

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Can you not make your own decisions? if you hate smoking so much along with the fella above, then you simply use your own brain and make the decision and say 'right, well I hate smoking that much - tonight i'll go to a non-smoking pub' it really is that simple.

To borrow a phrase, its common sense.

Why do we need government to make simple decisions for us?

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

So then why are you complaining? most of us consume these things, including the anti-smoking brigade - the the argument about health completely goes out of the window. If someone were so concerned about health, they certainly wouldn't be in a pub drinking alcohol and eating a big greasy pub meal. So you still haven't answered my point that you can make your own choices.

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Why are you being so difficult. Smoking affects not only the smoker but those around them too. People shouldn't have to be worried about their health when going somewhere. If they decide to do something that affects their health then that is GREAT but if they don't, then what? You just expect them to leave?

Those who don't smoke shouldn't have to have their options limited by those that do. Both non-smokers and smokers can go to events, and not smoke!

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

So then why are you complaining? most of us consume these things, including the anti-smoking brigade - the the argument about health completely goes out of the window. If someone were so concerned about health, they certainly wouldn't be in a pub drinking alcohol and eating a big greasy pub meal. So you still haven't answered my point that you can make your own choices.

It is like my argument with the pets - if you don't like seeing them in distress on bonfire night, dont buy a pet in the first place.
Argument with the smoking ban - if you don't like smoking, then don't go to a pub which allows smoking.



Can you not make your own decisions? if you hate smoking so much along with the fella above, then you simply use your own brain and make the decision and say 'right, well I hate smoking that much - tonight i'll go to a non-smoking pub' it really is that simple.

To borrow a phrase, its common sense.

Why do we need government to make simple decisions for us?

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Because I don't understand how there would be a non-smoking pub? That wouldn't make sense for the owner if he wanted to make money, so then all pubs would become smoking-pubs :|

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Originally Posted by Art

Why are you being so difficult. Smoking affects not only the smoker but those around them too. People shouldn't have to be worried about their health when going somewhere. If they decide to do something that affects their health then that is GREAT but if they don't, then what? You just expect them to leave?

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I expect, if you don't like smoking - that you go to a non-smoking pub?

Why are you being so difficult? can you not make your own decisions? are in incapable of that?

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Originally Posted by Rob

Because I don't understand how there would be a non-smoking pub? That wouldn't make sense for the owner if he wanted to make money, so then all pubs would become smoking-pubs :|

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Because there would be a market for people who didnt want to smoke, so they would go to non-smoking pubs.

i would love if the state controlled what i did in the bedroom. ultimate slavery. hot as hell.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

Why are you being so difficult? can you not make your own decisions? are in incapable of that?

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Alright lets use your logic. Why do you need smoking pubs? Can't you make your own decisions?? Are you incapable of that? You can smoke in your own house!

Why should someone who doesn't smoke have to have their options burdened by someone who does? Smokers affect non-smokers. Non-smokers don't affect smokers.

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Originally Posted by Art

Alright lets use your logic. Why do you need smoking pubs? Can't you make your own decisions?? Are you incapable of that? You can smoke in your own house!

Why should someone who doesn't smoke have to have their options burdened by someone who does? Smokers affect non-smokers. Non-smokers don't affect smokers.

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Because people have been smoking in pubs for many many years. It is also the property of the landlord as to what goes on in his or hers pub and not the problem of the government or the police. The comparision you've given is poor, as we live in historically free country. But you've just confirmed to me that you can't make your own decisions, and would rather dictate what other people do instead of using your own common sense.

So the likes of yourself ramble on about health regarding smoking, but would still be prepared to go into a pub that allows smoking - which clearly suggests you don't actually care about the issue on health grounds at all, its more a question of you getting your own way.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

Can you not make your own decisions? if you hate smoking so much along with the fella above, then you simply use your own brain and make the decision and say 'right, well I hate smoking that much - tonight i'll go to a non-smoking pub' it really is that simple.

To borrow a phrase, its common sense.

Why do we need government to make simple decisions for us?

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because then that's putting a divide in society and people should have the freedom to go in any public house and not have to worry about second hand smoke. having smoking and non smoking pubs is a lot more radical than just running outside, a lot of pubs have designated smoke areas anyway. and for the record i don't 'hate' smoking. i don't dislike it but i'm conscious of the affects of it, even most smokers will tell you it does no good so why should non smokers accept it affecting us, directly or indirectly?

exactly yeah, common sense. and to answer your question, because it saves lives. anyone who moans about how annoying it is to go out their way to have a tab needs to man up and either accept it, or quit.

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Originally Posted by Bun

because then that's putting a divide in society

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Absolute rubbish, maybe ASDA sells something Tescos doesn't and thats why I go to ASDA - oh jesus, that could be creating a divide in society. Don't use political speak like that which doesn't really mean anything for such a trivial issue, this is nothing like apartheid/a divide.

It is down to individual choice.

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Originally Posted by Bun

and people should have the freedom to go in any public house and not have to worry about second hand smoke. having smoking and non smoking pubs is a lot more radical than just running outside, a lot of pubs have designated smoke areas anyway. and for the record i don't 'hate' smoking.

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You would have the freedom, you would have the freedom to chooce whether to go to a smoking pub or a non-smoking pub. In regards to radical, what is radical is telling landlords what rules and regulations they must have, forcing landlords to erect costly outside smoking areas, fining people for smoking all of which is resulting in pub closures week after week and thus you get more unemployment and the death of many important local pubs which you could argue is the foundation of a local community - especially if you live in a small village/town.

Weatherspoons banned smoking before the ban and it worked very well.

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Originally Posted by Bun

i don't dislike it but i'm conscious of the affects of it, even most smokers will tell you it does no good so why should non smokers accept it affecting us, directly or indirectly?

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You wouldn't have to let it affect you, as you would have the choice of a non-smoking pub or a smoking pub.

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Originally Posted by Bun

exactly yeah, common sense. and to answer your question, because it saves lives. anyone who moans about how annoying it is to go out their way to have a tab needs to man up and either accept it, or quit.

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Saving lives? why not just go the whole hog then and ban cars, drinking, salt, fatty foods and so forth?

I think the people who need to 'man up' are those who can't make a simple decision for themselves and who worry about inhaling some smoke down at the local pub on a friday - there are bigger things to worry about, there's a bigger chance of you crashing your car the next morning than there is of you becoming seriously ill over a little bit of smoke down at the pub.

And before the anti-smoking 'experts' are quoted, are they the same experts who predicted that we were all going to freeze in a mini ice age during the 1980s, that we were all going to die from SARS, that we are all going to boil thanks to global warming, that we were all going to die from swine flu + the list goes on and on. It's time to ignore the scaremongers and start using a bit of common sense.