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11-12-2010, 02:39 AM
-:Undertaker:-

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chippiewill

Statistics please.

£56m in foreign aid to Zimbabwe; http://www.thezimbabwean.co.uk/index...d=52&Itemid=32

£825m in foreign aid to India; http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t454115/

http://cvjh.alpinedistrict.org/Facul...ges/Graph1.gif

Yes, I see that there is a negative gradient at the end... not.[/QUOTE]

That graph is the famous hockey stick graph which has been disproven, its been created via fraudulent statistics and false data along with using trend data which distorts the actual scienece; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hockey_stick_controversy
11-12-2010, 02:51 AM
Chippiewill

Zimbabwe's economy is dire.
India has problems with poverty.

There are a billion articles fighting both cases, how do you believe I should decide which is legitimate.
11-12-2010, 03:06 AM
-:Undertaker:-

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chippiewill

Zimbabwe's economy is dire.

Mainly because its leader has destroyed its agricultural sector and now keeps all the money for himself, his party and his army.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chippiewall

India has problems with poverty.

But plenty of money it seems to throw at space ventures.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chippiewall

There are a billion articles fighting both cases, how do you believe I should decide which is legitimate.

Well if you are ever in doubt about something, its usually best to not support throwing billions upon billions at it until you are sure.
11-12-2010, 03:34 AM
Chippiewill

Quote:

Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

Mainly because its leader has destroyed its agricultural sector and now keeps all the money for himself, his party and his army.

Yes? Exactly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

But plenty of money it seems to throw at space ventures.

I believe that the US got 700,000 new jobs as a result of their contribution. Perhaps we should expect similar in future.

Quote:

Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

Well if you are ever in doubt about something, its usually best to not support throwing billions upon billions at it until you are sure.

And when it is too late?
11-12-2010, 01:32 PM
-:Undertaker:-

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chippiewill

Yes? Exactly.

So you'retelling me you want to give more money to a corrupt dictator?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chippiewall

I believe that the US got 700,000 new jobs as a result of their contribution. Perhaps we should expect similar in future.

Absolute rubbish, you don't pay for jobs otherwise your not 'making' anything - just the same with the state sector, it doesn't create wealth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chippiewall

And when it is too late?

The worst which would happen would be a few degrees of warming which would mostly have benefits, not negatives. The only people who have died from global warming are those who have died in starvation thanks to the biofuels scam which led to the doubling of food prices.
11-12-2010, 05:37 PM
alexxxxx

i believe there is an issue here - US fuel prices has fallen recently if im not mistaken. UK petrol suppliers seem more reluctant to drop prices. I wonder if there is an anti-competitive agreement.
11-12-2010, 05:45 PM
Eoin247

With regards to what has just been said about Zimbabwe.

Yes alike most other african nations it suffers from high levels of corruption. Although i think you'll find that a lot of this foreign aid to Africa now goes to charity organisations that don't operate with the african governments.

Does some money get to corrupt governments still? Yes, it does however this does not mean the population should suffer as most people you will find don't even want that person/party to be in power in their country.
11-12-2010, 06:11 PM
-:Undertaker:-

Quote:

Originally Posted by eoin247

With regards to what has just been said about Zimbabwe.

Yes alike most other african nations it suffers from high levels of corruption. Although i think you'll find that a lot of this foreign aid to Africa now goes to charity organisations that don't operate with the african governments.

To which the military regimes of these countries simply snatch the aid and use if for themselves/their own tribal areas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eoin247

Does some money get to corrupt governments still? Yes, it does however this does not mean the population should suffer as most people you will find don't even want that person/party to be in power in their country.

How about lowering taxes by abolishing foreign aid, and allowing people the choice if they themselves wish to donate to charity?

You know, putting people incharge of their own money for once?
11-12-2010, 11:04 PM
Eoin247

If foreign aid was abolished i can bet you any money people will go out in their thousands to protest.

Why not lower taxes and give people the option to pay for social welfare then? Or roads or whatever. Sometimes these decisions are made for the greater good. You elect the government to make decisions for you, so really you are in charge of your own money.

I've been to central African countries before and to be honest even if the western world was in a depression twice as bad as the current recession, it would not even compare to the extreme poverty there still is in Africa.

I said charity organisation that don't operate with an African countries government. The government therefore is unable to snatch the money from these.
11-12-2010, 11:30 PM
-:Undertaker:-

Quote:

Originally Posted by eoin247

If foreign aid was abolished i can bet you any money people will go out in their thousands to protest.

Some slightly odd people may do yes, to which I would say; why not use your own money and send that to charity?

Quote:

Originally Posted by eoin247

Why not lower taxes and give people the option to pay for social welfare then? Or roads or whatever. Sometimes these decisions are made for the greater good. You elect the government to make decisions for you, so really you are in charge of your own money.

Because roads and social welfare are different as they apply to this country and you actually get the benefit of it, more to the point;- most people do not mind their money going on roads and welfare.

Foreign aid does not serve this country or its people, if people wish to give seperately then do let them do so - infact its been shown in the past that the more money people have, the more generously they will tend to give to the likes of charity than if the state took that money off them and gave them no choice. Our government gives money away/spends money on things that most people would not want their money spend on if they had any control over it.. that's just simple fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eoin247

I've been to central African countries before and to be honest even if the western world was in a depression twice as bad as the current recession, it would not even compare to the extreme poverty there still is in Africa.

The west went in and built roads, schools, hospitals and so forth for Africa - we got thrown out. I'm afraid if Africa needs help, the only people who can help it are the people there themselves. Now until that happens, I fail to see why we should pay for their continued misery by funding the likes of Robert Mugabe and his murderous Zanu-PF political party.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eoin247

I said charity organisation that don't operate with an African countries government. The government therefore is unable to snatch the money from these.

They still do it anyway, they can direct the aid to places where 'their people' live to keep them happy. Besides, if you are going to give aid the best form of aid to give is training in farming and irrigation as the saying goes; give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day, teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime. I don't see how the west (which is in severe debt) can take out loans.. ontop of its existing loans.. to give money away which it doesn't have. Let people decide what to do with their own money Eoin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLywvxki39U
(from 0:50)

It is rather similar to having your family on the breadline and your just struggling to make it day in day out.. and then your Dad announces to the family that he is halving your rations so he can give £50 a week to the Smiths over the road.

I'm not mean, i'm being realistic and I think people should decide how to spend their own money - not the government.

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