Should school attendance be voluntary? [ENDS 03/04/2011]

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Originally Posted by Eoin247

Likewise however, a guy in my class was top of the class in our early maths years. However now he's 17 and he's very average, in fact he's struggling to stay in the class he's in.

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Sounds like me, throughout Primary School I was consistently top of my year group in Maths and Science (And I wasn't at a one class school or anything). At the beginning of secondary school I was pretty much still top and then when I got to GCSEs I got B in Maths and Science's and I'm currently failing AS Maths. So I accept the premise things change but I think it shows I'm probably capable if I hadn't got behind and lost motivation. China and Russia have some very well educated people so if this method is proven to work it's probably worth considering. I believe you can tell at a young age you can tell how clever someone is.

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Originally Posted by Jordy

Sounds like me, throughout Primary School I was consistently top of my year group in Maths and Science (And I wasn't at a one class school or anything). At the beginning of secondary school I was pretty much still top and then when I got to GCSEs I got B in Maths and Science's and I'm currently failing AS Maths. So I accept the premise things change but I think it shows I'm probably capable if I hadn't got behind and lost motivation. China and Russia have some very well educated people so if this method is proven to work it's probably worth considering. I believe you can tell at a young age you can tell how clever someone is.

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It can be said that any country "has some very well educated people". I thought i had said it in my earlier post, it appears i didn't, but this method hasn't been proven mainly for the reasoning i gave earlier.

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Originally Posted by Eoin247

It can be said that any country "has some very well educated people". I thought i had said it in my earlier post, it appears i didn't, but this method hasn't been proven mainly for the reasoning i gave earlier.

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No it can't, China has many intellects who have done great things, much like Russia has. Look at the world's leading laboratories and places of scientific research and there's plenty of Russians and Chinese in them. Or even just leading University's in the UK and you'll find many Chinese have enrolled. On the whole, many Chinese receive excellent education and can therefore compete with Europeans and North Americans these days. In China for instance, there's five times more people learning English than there is people learning English in the UK. Of course it's a much bigger country but it's remarkable how so many people are learning a second language very different to their own.

To an extent, yes!

I'v forgot nearly everything I learnt at school (apart from the things I use in my life). I can't remember any of the crap in maths - Pythagoras, Algebra. I can't remember anything I learnt in music, can only remember a few things in history and geography.. think that's the only subject I can remember haha.

I think the main reason I can't remember anything from maths is actually because it was compulsory. In my maths classes, there was a few people who used to mess around in class, making it difficult for other people to learn.

I would also have hated to stay into school until I was 18. When I was 16 and went to college, it was nice to be able to learn something i'm interested with other people who are interested and not some people who are there because they have to be.

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Originally Posted by Jordy

No it can't, China has many intellects who have done great things, much like Russia has. Look at the world's leading laboratories and places of scientific research and there's plenty of Russians and Chinese in them. Or even just leading University's in the UK and you'll find many Chinese have enrolled. On the whole, many Chinese receive excellent education and can therefore compete with Europeans and North Americans these days. In China for instance, there's five times more people learning English than there is people learning English in the UK. Of course it's a much bigger country but it's remarkable how so many people are learning a second language very different to their own.

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Look at the populations of Russia and China, and then look at the population of the UK. No more needs to be said

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Originally Posted by Conservative,

Up to a certain age or ability, yes. However I think it's stupid to keep people on (as the previous Government decided) until they're 18, when some people clearly HATE school.

Education is obviously a necessity and people in some countries would DIE for education. However, it is not worth the money or time or effort if someone is being forced to go there and just disrupt it.

My view is, school should be compulsory up to a certain standard - ie; you are tested yearly with a few exams that are the minimum standard (so you're fluent in english, can solve basic mathematics problems etc.) then you can leave - for some people that may be 12, for some that may be 18. However there should also be an age limit, ie; if you don't pass the test by age 16, you can go anyway.

To me, that seems fair. It's hardly fair to let a kid with 1 GCSE leave at 16, and a 12 year old of the same standard be forced to go to school for another 4 years.

Also, I think schools should be ability classed, not age, that way those who constantly fail "the test" could be helped while those who pass it can extend their knowledge.

My opinion is probably controversial but I hate the fact that stupid (sorry couldn't think of a better word) 16 year olds are allowed to leave when very intelligent 12/13/14 year olds aren't.

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I disagree with this as I feel it takes away equal opportunities when it comes to Education. If we make everyone stay on until they are 16 then this is fair. Everyone receives the same chance, they're able to get some GCSE's and then once they've completed year 11 they should then have the option as to what they would like to do next, but I think that it should be the schools responsibility to ensure that students who have completed their GCSE's and are moving onto post-16, have somewhere to go/something to do.

On the other hand you've mentioned intelligent 12/13/14 year olds. What I think could be done for them is an advance/fast-track system put into education. So that, say when you get to year 8 or 9, it may be an option to let you begin a GCSE course(s) in subject(s) that you excel in. In no way however do I feel it would be right for children to be allowed to leave school just because they might be considered "more intelligent" than others. What would they do when they leave school? Most employers wouldn't be willing to recruit 14/15 year olds on a fulltime basis, imagine the changes they'd have to make to company insurance policies. Then I think of the young intelligent people fast tracking to college and uni - this just doesn't seem real to me.

In my own opinion, the current schooling system in the UK needs to be tweaked and changed, however I think major changes such as school leaving dates are not necessary and will just create unwanted hassle in the country, which isn't what we need. What we need is the money and funds to ensure that the current education system is up to scratch and that all children have an equal and fair education.

It's the natural instinct of people made to do something for them to not want to do that thing - hence why so many people hate school... If we had the choice in our younger years, a large number of people would take days off school and become Uneducated when they don't know what they are doing to themselves. School should be compulsory - we miss it when we leave.

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Originally Posted by Jordy

No it can't, China has many intellects who have done great things, much like Russia has. Look at the world's leading laboratories and places of scientific research and there's plenty of Russians and Chinese in them. Or even just leading University's in the UK and you'll find many Chinese have enrolled. On the whole, many Chinese receive excellent education and can therefore compete with Europeans and North Americans these days. In China for instance, there's five times more people learning English than there is people learning English in the UK. Of course it's a much bigger country but it's remarkable how so many people are learning a second language very different to their own.

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That would assume that the education system that China and Russia has is succeeding however. There could be other factors such as parents attitude to education, for example, that contributes to that rather than because they test pupils at 3/4 years old. If I recall correctly, the chinese value education highly whereas education here is beaten with a stick constantly imo. I think it'd be a very dangerous path to take to test 3/4 year olds and then, by the time they've got to 16, their education is based on a test they did 11/12 years ago.

I think it is revellent for a child to get taught general knolage, so then they can decide themselves for what they want to do in the future. Which I believe is called Primary school. I believe after they finish Primary school, they should have options to what they want to learn, and need to learn for what they have to know in the future, for their own carer.

Maybe meaning there is no secondary school, and that child stays into that school, untol they have learned what they need to know to choose where they go next, with support. I mean, when I was 11 I wanted to be a police officer.... and I swear some kids have even worse things like a lorry driver as such. So just until they learn what they need to know, and pass the exam. And the options would be, carry on education, which is going to secondary, or going down your carer routes.

-- my other side --

In primary school and secondary school, I was a 'naughty' boy, and was eventually kicked out of secondary. Basically because I was being taught how others are better than me because I'm in a lower class, and how to add up cubes, and learn how to draw cicles. I find my self lucky that I got into the course I always wanted to do, only because of experience I had outside of school with time-part jobs, and also because I use computers in every day life since I was young.

But aye, some have got of worse, and got no where, simply because they were young, and didn't understand why they had to go to school. At 18, I regret being naughty, and think that school would of been a great help with my life... but what 40 year old polition would think a 9, 11, 14 year old will know that at that current age? oh right.. all of them.. obviously not. Which means that child is down the hill, most likely on the doll because they didn't understand schoolin at a young age, and didnt get the right grades.

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Originally Posted by Eoin247

First sentance is a bit contradictory there. Maths developes your mind and teaches you to think, even if most of the stuff you learn is useless the actual subject isn't



These people usualy get expelled, so they end up not going anyway.



It is widely known now that people change hugely in their first twenty years of life mentally. People develop and change mindsets vastly during these ages. So taking a test at 3/4 years of age is very unreliable. Sure some people who are good at maths at 3 may still be good at maths at 15. Likewise however, a guy in my class was top of the class in our early maths years. However now he's 17 and he's very average, in fact he's struggling to stay in the class he's in.

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That's most likely due to the fact he doesn't try/can't be bothered. If you test them when they don't understand why they will do their best because children are very competitive. Then you can maximise their potential. Just because some kids don't try hard doesn't mean they couldn't do better. I've seen kids be incredibly clever but dropped down several sets because they just can't be bothered. Doesn't mean their abilities have changed, personally I don't think it's possible to lose a natural talent.