Jimmy Carr's credibility is toast

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Originally Posted by Ardemax

Towards the end I did feel a bit sorry for him (in an odd way) but Jon Richardson summed it up nicely to the words of "...the government doesn't have enough to pay for things like education and one of the reasons is people not paying their taxes..." which, is what is boils down to really.

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The government does have enough to pay for education (indeed, too much one could argue). The reason why education in this country is awful is not because we haven't thrown enough buckets of money over it (because we have) it's because of the abolition of the grammar schools although that's another topic altogether.

I find it morally good myself that people avoid tax - personally I think we should all of the option of opting out of appalling government services myself, then we wouldn't be forced to pay and thus use badly managed and dirty hospitals, state schools which have shiny new buildings but which are incapable of teaching anything, costly foreign adventures, tribute money to Brussels, showering cash on the likes of President Mugabe with foreign aid and much more. Indeed if we all avoided tax, maybe it would result in a big improvement.

It boils down to the fact that government takes enough of our money as it is (and borrows enough in our name), it's time it had less.

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Originally Posted by Chippiewill

I think he was more at fault than Jimmy. He's been ignored for the most part, probably due to being heavily involved in the Jubilee stuff.

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Yeah I was going to say that it's quite harsh seeing how Jimmy is all over the news and Gary has just about made it into The Sun, or something.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

The government does have enough to pay for education (indeed, too much one could argue). The reason why education in this country is awful is not because we haven't thrown enough buckets of money over it (because we have) it's because of the abolition of the grammar schools although that's another topic altogether.

I find it morally good myself that people avoid tax - personally I think we should all of the option of opting out of appalling government services myself, then we wouldn't be forced to pay and thus use badly managed and dirty hospitals, state schools which have shiny new buildings but which are incapable of teaching anything, costly foreign adventures, tribute money to Brussels, showering cash on the likes of President Mugabe with foreign aid and much more. Indeed if we all avoided tax, maybe it would result in a big improvement.

It boils down to the fact that government takes enough of our money as it is (and borrows enough in our name), it's time it had less.

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I was paraphrasing what he said xD You can watch it (if you haven't) here: http://www.channel4.com/programmes/8-out-of-10-cats/4od

I'm not really sure whether you're joking about the opting out of taxes thing and whether you're joking about it being 'morally good' or not, but for these purposes, I'll assume you're not. I don't think it is the right of the individual to 'opt out' of paying tax for certain services, because if a certain amount of people decide against paying it, then it will become unsustainable and have to be scrapped for everyone, including the poor who can't afford private health care and private schooling.

I assume you want 'laissez faire' policies like the ones seen in America where rugged individualism is endorsed and there is little to no help for those who cannot sustain themselves because of illness or disability. Personally, I feel that's wrong and that those who don't feel like supporting others (cough cough the rich cough cough) through financial means and through supporting the likes of the NHS, shouldn't be exempt from the extra tax.

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Originally Posted by Ardemax

Yeah I was going to say that it's quite harsh seeing how Jimmy is all over the news and Gary has just about made it into The Sun, or something.

I was paraphrasing what he said xD You can watch it (if you haven't) here: http://www.channel4.com/programmes/8-out-of-10-cats/4od

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No thank you, I can't bear the current left wing comedians or their shows.

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Originally Posted by Ardemax

I'm not really sure whether you're joking about the opting out of taxes thing and whether you're joking about it being 'morally good' or not, but for these purposes, I'll assume you're not. I don't think it is the right of the individual to 'opt out' of paying tax for certain services, because if a certain amount of people decide against paying it, then it will become unsustainable and have to be scrapped for everyone, including the poor who can't afford private health care and private schooling.

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No it wouldn't, it would simply mean that the service is downsized which i'm sure you'll agree with me that in a democracy, if 50% of the population end up opting out then the service should thus be downsized because that is what 50% of the population want.

A very simple opt-out policy of where you pay 10% to 20% tax and are only covered by basic services such as Police/Fire along with paying for national defence and the basic functions of government - the rest of the money you earn you would be free to keep and spend on things such as a good education and good healthcare.

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Originally Posted by Ardemax

I assume you want 'laissez faire' policies like the ones seen in America where rugged individualism is endorsed and there is little to no help for those who cannot sustain themselves because of illness or disability. Personally, I feel that's wrong and that those who don't feel like supporting others (cough cough the rich cough cough) through financial means and through supporting the likes of the NHS, shouldn't be exempt from the extra tax.

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Oh what nonsense, if you think the US healthcare system is 'rugged individualism' or laissez faire then I don't know what to say other than you should have a read into the US healthcare system which is essentially state controlled and bankrolled in 2012 - and just happens to be a mess, like the NHS.

The Singapore healthcare system is an example of relatively free market healthcare, and it works much better than state (US/UK) healthcare.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

A very simple opt-out policy of where you pay 10% to 20% tax and are only covered by basic services such as Police/Fire along with paying for national defence and the basic functions of government - the rest of the money you earn you would be free to keep and spend on things such as a good education and good healthcare.

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An opt-out education system is ridiculous, everyone who doesn't need education will just opt-out leaving massive bills for already struggling parents.

Also the NHS works better that a lot of alternatives. For instance the American system encourages insurance companies to avoid paying bills at all costs, if there's even one small thing out of place they'll refuse all costs because they can. A private system is going to work to the interests of cutting corners, not quality health care.

Singapore has a slight advantage in that it's TINY.

You're all forgetting that it is both a legal loophole and also exactly why you hire an accountant. If you're offered such a way, why wouldn't you take it? I can't think of anyone who wouldn't take this perfectly legal route. Blame the government, not Jimmy Carr.

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Originally Posted by Chippiewill

I just saw this week's 8 out of 10 cats and he seemed legitimately ignorant to what he'd actually been doing and I can see it as being an honest mistake.

And actually to put in perspective, as they said on the show yes it was morally wrong but so is leaving an eight year old in a pub. No one's perfect.

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There's no point listening to David Cameron, he's just seizing an opportunity without thinking for a second how morally wrong his family is for avoiding paying tax in the past. Didn't his father build of the family wealth by setting up dodgy accounts and avoiding paying actual tax too? Heck, Lord Ashdown famously avoided tax, and he was made a Lord :/ For a credible response to Jimmy Carr avoiding tax, it's best to avoid David Cameron like the plague, because he's no better for accepting it in his own political party and only being where he is thanks to such schemes.

Isn't Gary Barlow guilty too? He got an OBE recently. The country is filled with such immoral people - at least Carr is showing remorse.

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Originally Posted by Misawa

You're all forgetting that it is both a legal loophole and also exactly why you hire an accountant. If you're offered such a way, why wouldn't you take it? I can't think of anyone who wouldn't take this perfectly legal route. Blame the government, not Jimmy Carr.

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Indeed, it's a battle of morality and legality. Yes it was entirely legal, but should he follow it given how immoral it is? It's not the Government's fault if its citizens are finding loopholes which may never be blocked, you would hope the Government doesn't have to intervene where morals are concerned. I wouldn't want a law against cheating men and women, which is also immoral but not illegal.

8 out of 10 Cats was interesting.

Jimmy Carr is the only guy i know that can (and will) use this as a career boost and a source of material. Props to the guy ahaha

8 out of 10 cats was funny this week :)

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Originally Posted by Technologic

Jimmy Carr is the only guy i know that can (and will) use this as a career boost and a source of material. Props to the guy ahaha

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Probably because he's the only guy to realise that if he admits his mistakes people respect him more for it.