School children as young as 8 told they would be 'racist' for missing school trip

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Originally Posted by FlyingJesus

"X is wrong unless they agree with me"

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He usually is wrong.

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Originally Posted by FlyingJesus

And MY point was that extreme doctrines are a huge problem in Christianity and Judaism, not that Islam doesn't have problems. You completely ignored the list of evil deeds done in those names (and even keep pretending that the terrorist state of Israel isn't a big deal) and went straight back to talking about what a small (yes, it is small) number of Muslims do

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Have I at all claimed that Christianity and Judaism are completely free of problems? No. I have made the very rational and coherant argument that Islam has and is facing much bigger problems than Christianity or Judaism are.

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Originally Posted by FlyingJesus

Genuinely would make no difference since both are places of extreme danger to everyone regardless of who/what you are. Certain things not being specifically illegal in Israel doesn't seem to stop them from being punishable by torture and death at the hands of the military police who know that they'll never be reprimanded for it

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Then your full of rubbish because you know you'd pick Israel if you were arab/gay/a woman/trans. Israel, for all it's faults, is a beacon of humanity and decency in Middle East.

I think it's been pointed out time and time again that arabs living in Israel actually have more rights and more freedom than they do if they were living in any of the surrounding muslim countries.

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Originally Posted by karter

I love this so much because I said nothing and you just guessed what my opinion was.
First of all let me clear it up, I don't agree with the 'Religion of Peace' statement in the first place so just stop shoving that dry ass phrase in front of me because I know that many elements of Islam are not peaceful and morally quite wrong. I live in a country where there are 150 million Muslims so believe me, [B]I know.

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Well at least you'll admit Islam has very serious problems by discarding that silly phrase that I too feel is a whitewash, unlike Tom here who seems to be hellbent on comparing Judaism in Israel with Islam in the Middle East when the gulf is so deep between the two comparisons.

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Originally Posted by =karter

Examples of some of the comments which you might agree with but are genuinely messed up.

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The middle comment has truth to it, absolutely.

As I keep repeating over and over, Islam has serious problems going on at the moment which no other religion is facing on the same scale and scope. Why are we having such a trouble in this thread accepting that?

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Originally Posted by karter

Aah yes, intelligence oozing out of every single comment above :rolleyes:. Now here's what's important - People have every right to follow whatever religion they are following no matter how oppressive it might seem to a second person, you however should learn that it is neither your business and nor an opportunity to determine what's right and what's wrong. I strongly despised many elements of Islam but I overcame my narrow mindedness to FINALLY shut up about it and FINALLY realize that your opinion is ******

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Where have I stated people don't have a right to follow a religion I might deem oppressive? Being socially conservative myself I actually think we could do with some Islamic morality over in this country - especially when it comes to sex and relationships.

Do you even understand what my opinion on Islam is?

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Originally Posted by karter

You can rant about Islam and immigration all you want, I don't care but please don't live in a delusion that you have some kind of lofty evolved way of thinking. Of course forcing kids to go to a mosque for a field trip is wrong, but campaigning against this at this level which obviously brings in a lot of religious hate ain't right either? I now am expecting a reply filled with youtube videos on how Islam is oppressive some blah speech by a white guy. But you know what my favourite thing is? That you will never identify with the real issues. You will never know how kids grow up in Muslim homes bearing the tags of 'oppressed' or 'primitive' and you will never know how people have to deal with shame just for following their religion. So yeah that's why I am not taking this crap coming from a white male.

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Eh? what's race got to do with this?

As for the feelings of muslims and the media, i'm sorry but this is what Islam always does. In societies where it is the minority, it takes great offence at the smallest things which don't bother other religions (the Dutch cartoon saga for example) and poses as the oppressed minority. In societies where Islam is the majority, well we know what happens if you are a Christian, Jewish, gay, a woman or transgendered - I don't think I need to elaborate on that point much more.

This is why it always amazes me that the left or so-called liberals will utterly go to town on the Roman Catholic Church or Church of England on homosexuality, but on the other hand will jump to the defence of Islam whenever it is dared criticised - despite the fact that Islam is probably the worst religion and least accepting on the subject of homosexuality.

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Originally Posted by karter

(I believe) There is no harm in religious studies and these kinds of field trips so that kids don't end up being prejudiced jerks like their parents. A child will not turn to terrorism or convert to Islam if he/she visits a mosque.

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Who said they would?

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Originally Posted by karter

Minorities might finally feel a little more accepted. There is no harm. Sorry for challenging your opinion and sorry for having an opinion that differs from yours but please note that your opinion is vulnerable to criticism and is a very ****** opinion.

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I don't think you've actually put across an opinion other than one long sob story about how followers of a religion might feel if radical parts and sects of their religion are criticised.

Well boo bloody hoo.

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Originally Posted by Kardan

Please do explain to me how the majority of Muslims have these problems you are talking about. I would love to argue that it is in fact a minority.

Oh, and great poster @karter;

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I didn't say it was a majority, I said it wasn't a tiny minority - look at the Islamic world right now. It's ablaze - not because of some mythical struggle between democracy and oppressive regimes, it's ablaze because of the internal struggle within the religious sects of Islam for control of the Syria-Iraq-Kuwait region.

Thanks for telling me how I think and yet again ignoring everything said to you in order to repeat your nonsense, appreciated. If you think Israel has any sort of positive rights record you have no place in a discussion like this

Also stop pretending that I've said Islam has no problems when I clearly haven't; I know lying about these matters comes naturally to you but it's infuriating enough trying to deal with your complete lack of knowledge on the area let alone adding misrepresentation of my replies into it

Of course, it's always a 'sob story' when you ain't the victim.

It's a sob story when a petty issue like this ignites into religious hate against their religion
It's a sob story when they feel alienated whenever the topic of immigration is brought up
It's a sob story when they feel hurt for being stereotyped as a typical intolerant Arab
It's a sob story when they object when they're called foreigners
It's a sob story when mosques are vandalized and when they take offence
It's a sob story when they are not even welcome in the discussion on their own religion
It's a sob story when Quran is burnt and national coverage is being given on it with crowds cheering and supporting it

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

All I can say is THANK GOD I am lucky to live in an area that is still British - much like all the politicians who claim to love 'diversity' but who don't live in Bradford, Tower Hamlets and Luton and instead live in culturally British, majority-white areas where they are totally insulated from the effects of mass immigration.

Those who can afford to flee these non-British areas and do, well who can blame them? It's the people who are left behind (mainly the old and the poorest) who I feel deeply sorry for.

*waits for somebody to call me a waycist*

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This however, is not a sob story. Immigration is a big issue which needs to be dealt with asap

Have you actually read the original letter @-:Undertaker:-?

The trip goes to Staffordshire University; not a mosque. The trip is for a variety of religions; not just islam. I mean sure, have these over the top views; but don't make something up.

The letter doesn't state; "We are going on a school trip to a mosque, to study Islam. If you do not go you clearly hate Islam and are therefore racist."

However, I do agree it is ludicrous to suggest anyone is racist for not going on a school trip (although the people in the original photo look common as muck).

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Originally Posted by karter

This however, is not a sob story. Immigration is a big issue which needs to be dealt with asap

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You can say that again. :P

Culturally those areas I mentioned are not culturally British and are totally seperate to British society. I have argued time and time again on these boards for controlled immigration which would hasten integration.

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Originally Posted by Payasam

Have you actually read the original letter @-:Undertaker:-?

The trip goes to Staffordshire University; not a mosque. The trip is for a variety of religions; not just islam. I mean sure, have these over the top views; but don't make something up.

The letter doesn't state; "We are going on a school trip to a mosque, to study Islam. If you do not go you clearly hate Islam and are therefore racist."

However, I do agree it is ludicrous to suggest anyone is racist for not going on a school trip (although the people in the original photo look common as muck).

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Did I say they were visiting a mosque?

I said what I know to be true from my own school experience, my cousins and sister, that often these trips or studies are whitewashed so that only one side is given - take Nelson Mandela as the prime example. My little cousin came home gushing over Nelson Mandela, little did she know about the campaign of terror that he and his armed ANC wing carried out against non-political innocents.

I have no problem with these subjects being taught, provided all the facts are disclosed just as I would expect the horrid General Dyer massacre and slavery to be taught when the British Empire is being discussed in the classroom.

It's not racist so this whole article is pretty worthless. As interesting as it may or may not be to attend a workshop on Islam (I would be interested as it sounds quite enlightening), it's down to the parents to allow their children to go on day trips and is a common policy. For some reason it seems to have been lost on this headmistress. Also, labelling children as racists for not attending a trip is technically against the law and the parents could take her to court for slander, libel and defamation (although the latter requires it to be published to a 3rd party and libel needs it written down, slander is spoken word).

If this is true (and I often take the media with a pinch of salt), she seems a bit of a moron making threatening accusations, especially to children. Learning about Islam isn't a necessity for the curriculum. It's purely for interest and if the parents and the children have no interest then that's their decision.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

I have no problem with these subjects being taught, provided all the facts are disclosed just as I would expect the horrid General Dyer massacre and slavery to be taught when the British Empire is being discussed in the classroom.

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Not on topic but is this true that this wasn't taught? Geez that's some biased education

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Originally Posted by karter

Not on topic but is this true that this wasn't taught? Geez that's some biased education

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It is taught, he was just saying he expects it to be (ie. Both sides of the story should always be looked at).

Sent from my HTC One X

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Originally Posted by GommeInc

It's not racist so this whole article is pretty worthless. As interesting as it may or may not be to attend a workshop on Islam (I would be interested as it sounds quite enlightening), it's down to the parents to allow their children to go on day trips and is a common policy. For some reason it seems to have been lost on this headmistress. Also, labelling children as racists for not attending a trip is technically against the law and the parents could take her to court for slander, libel and defamation (although the latter requires it to be published to a 3rd party and libel needs it written down, slander is spoken word).

If this is true (and I often take the media with a pinch of salt), she seems a bit of a moron making threatening accusations, especially to children. Learning about Islam isn't a necessity for the curriculum. It's purely for interest and if the parents and the children have no interest then that's their decision.

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The trip was not about Islam...

Sent from my HTC One X

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Originally Posted by Payasam

The trip was not about Islam...

Sent from my HTC One X

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Doesn't matter, you still mustn't label children as racist and force them to go on a school trip. Parents have the final say, they're the legal guardians.