Sulake cracking down on VIP

I would like to know what their intentions are with this, because it can't possibly be down to the money spent on VIP could go to Habbo Credits/HC. There is no logic in that.

Just wait till they get in contact with Habbox I guess, and if and when they do, get jrh2002 to show them common sense and logic. Habbo WILL be hopeless with no fansites and it is fansites that are probably behind them making all their money and activity anyway. Unless they propose to advertise Habbo through other means, but as far as I am aware, fansite news is what drags people to events :/

Also, you can't call it donations unless you are suggesting Habbox don't give you VIP, because as far as I am aware, donating money for something in return is called buying or trading ;) Which is how Habbo/Sulake will see it.

I guess if we changed the domain to HxForum or something, and adapted the skins to be all non-habbo, we could still house all the departments on HxForum (but not link to it from Habbox.com), keep running Habbox.com as official, and still offer VIP. That's one of the only options I can see to enable us to still run properly :P That is if nothing else can be sorted out. It's all getting a bit dramatic!

lol we dont have a problem with paying for VIP - its a thing we choose to do via free will x[

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Originally Posted by iConz..

@ Kardan - Whether the site is official or not, It does not matter. On the fansites rules it says all rules apply to both Official and Unofficial fansites ;)

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What I'm saying is that if HabboxForum no longer makes itself so it's a fansite then it won't fall under the rules ;) So it'd need a name change and just remove Habbo related images.

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Originally Posted by Yonder454

Somebody write a proffessionally address letter for us to copy and email them, i know it isnt individually wrote by us but if enough send it in they have to listen because it means we all want what the email suggests. If enough people complain, potential thousands. They would listen as they would be scared of Habbo failing.

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Originally Posted by SkaterChu

Apparently that was brought up at the official fansite meeting, and redtiz said that any fansite trying to avoid the rule will be treated as breaking the rule.

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Thats pathetic.

Sulake/Habbo can not legally stop people from giving money to fansites. Its just not allowed.


If habbox is going to look for a route of conservatism but want to keep VIP then I would suggest maybe an alternate way of conacting staff in control of giving VIP to users (possibly through an external site not linked to Habbo in ANY way) and then user's would pay a fee there. The payment would be recorded on the site automatically and would alert the VIP-Staff to give the user VIP on the forum.

As the VIP staff act as a 'middle-man' then nothing can really be done as they are just working on two seperate sites.


However, if Habbox arent going to budge on this then im sure all users would be behind them 100% even if it means changing to a new domain and remove all links to Habbo.


If Habbo think this rule can just be instated without any change in fansites then they are very wrong. Fansites will either change or disband due to lack of funds.

I still don't see why we should have to remove all the habbo images - as the main boost for Habbox(forum/live/w.e) is Habbo, So by doing this Habbox becomes a completely different site altogether.

Maybe instead of us all complaining/ranting about Habbo (even though it is fun - but the thing behind it is very annoying..) doing this perhaps start shooting ideas for ways Habbox can get money without VIP.
There is already the
Donate to Habbox - which they can't stop us doing.
Advertising - 1 way of getting money..

Sulake Can Shut Forums Down Froum Using Coprighted Material And Charging People To Use It Many Game Based Forums Have Been Shut Down By Nindendo For Not Putting The Nindendo Copyright On It.

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Originally Posted by Sammeth.

I guess if we changed the domain to HxForum or something, and adapted the skins to be all non-habbo, we could still house all the departments on HxForum (but not link to it from Habbox.com), keep running Habbox.com as official, and still offer VIP. That's one of the only options I can see to enable us to still run properly :P That is if nothing else can be sorted out. It's all getting a bit dramatic!

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Problem with that though, is HabboxForum will have to get rid of Habbo News, Habbo Alterations, Trading Forums and any direct links to Habbox.com - because Habbox is affiliated with Habbo, it is official and uses their images so any thing like www.habbox.com in links, even if it has a name like "Official Fansite" and links to "habbox.com" would have to be scrapped.

This is what SkaterChu dragged up:

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This rule is not a condition for being an official fansite, but a condition for all sites who wish to use the name 'Habbo' or 'Habbo Hotel' in domain names or make use of any graphics, code or written content created by Sulake.

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Originally Posted by iConz..

Donate to Habbox - which they can't stop us doing.
Advertising - 1 way of getting money..

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You can't call it donating when you get charged £1 and get VIP in return. You'll have to donate and get nothing in return to call it donating.

In the UK it is legal to be known by and use as many names as you like as long as you use a different DOB. This must be the same by european law? maybe sierk can say hes uses the name Hab Box since he was little and sue habbo for stealing his name lol
I cant see them getting anywhere over the domain name. :o maybe habbo should purchase every domain name that includes the word 'HABBO' for its market value? ******s lol

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Originally Posted by GommeInc

You can't call it donating when you get charged £1 and get VIP in return. You'll have to donate and get nothing in return to call it donating.

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I meant - On Habbox.com don't they have a thing where you can use Paypal to donate to habbox?
Or is this only at christmas? :S

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Originally Posted by Supersam

Thats pathetic.

Sulake/Habbo can not legally stop people from giving money to fansites. Its just not allowed.


If habbox is going to look for a route of conservatism but want to keep VIP then I would suggest maybe an alternate way of conacting staff in control of giving VIP to users (possibly through an external site not linked to Habbo in ANY way) and then user's would pay a fee there. The payment would be recorded on the site automatically and would alert the VIP-Staff to give the user VIP on the forum.

As the VIP staff act as a 'middle-man' then nothing can really be done as they are just working on two seperate sites.


However, if Habbox arent going to budge on this then im sure all users would be behind them 100% even if it means changing to a new domain and remove all links to Habbo.


If Habbo think this rule can just be instated without any change in fansites then they are very wrong. Fansites will either change or disband due to lack of funds.

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The point is Sulake currently own copyright to Habbo Hotel and all their images, at their request they can get them to be removed for any reason.

I would try contacting the media very soon yes, the sooner the better. I wouldn't try Watchdog though it doesn't seem the right thing for them.

To be fair I think if so much of you have a problem with it, perhaps you should buy VIP? I was hoping I wouldn't need to say that but how can people moan about it when they don't support HabboxForum fianicially anyway.

I think it will have a slight affect on Habbo but if you get the UK Office or Press on your side you have a good case. I'm quite confident though this will only be a problem to ClubHabbo or Habbox though because if any other fansites do it they'll be so small they'll be over-looked.

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Originally Posted by GommeInc

Problem with that though, is HabboxForum will have to get rid of Habbo News, Habbo Alterations, Trading Forums and any direct links to Habbox.com - because Habbox is affiliated with Habbo, it is official and uses their images so any thing like www.habbox.com in links, even if it has a name like "Official Fansite" and links to "habbox.com" would have to be scrapped.

This is what SkaterChu dragged up:




You can't call it donating when you get charged £1 and get VIP in return. You'll have to donate and get nothing in return to call it donating.

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The Habbo discussion wont have to cease. Habbo cannot stop the discussion of their site on forums.

And donating doesn't have to be selfless... if Habbox wish to return the generousity of members then they should be able to.

Habbox should do a big campaign with every other fansite, get big banners on the websites and forums getting people to e-mail sulake or a ceartin media etc complaining, otherwise if they dont there is chance of closure.

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Originally Posted by iConz..

I meant - On Habbox.com don't they have a thing where you can use Paypal to donate to habbox?
Or is this only at christmas? :S

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Ooo, you've discovered a possible loop hole :P Allow donations on Habbox.com, and award the member on HxForum.com with VIP (obvs a made up name for now). Technically you're getting a small reward from another source on another site, which is technically avoiding going against donations :P But the forum will have to be owned by someone else, the domain and the license. I believe that's how it works at least... I read something like that somewhere :P

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Originally Posted by Supersam

The Habbo discussion wont have to cease. Habbo cannot stop the discussion of their site on forums.

And donating doesn't have to be selfless... if Habbox wish to return the generousity of members then they should be able to.

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True, but you can't have permanent forums, especially like HabboxForum has now with Habbo Trade forums, alt forums, and news forums. It will look like a fansite and will come under a fansite. They would all have to be removed or put into one catagory and make the forum look like a gaming chat forum if anything.

Habbox will have to give everyone VIP, when they donate money, to avoid arguments. In doing that, it's not a donation, it's buying VIP. It's an exchange, not a donation :)

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Originally Posted by jrh2002

Maybe its worth considering servers run from the backstreets of some lawless dump of a country where habbo's only chance of getting anything removed is if they can get the isp's in the uk etc to ban habbox.com (i am sure gordon brown would sanction terrorist laws for sulake for a small donation)

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Hong Kong =]

If they just said Donations and then gave a special usergroup to Donators but don't sa you will or put "WE MIGHT GIVE VIP TO SOME DONATORS" but give to them all :p

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Originally Posted by Soil

Hong Kong =]

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Gordon Brown would struggle to sanction the People's Republic of China because they host some forums.

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Originally Posted by Favourtism

If they just said Donations and then gave a special usergroup to Donators but don't sa you will or put "WE MIGHT GIVE VIP TO SOME DONATORS" but give to them all :p

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That would be crafty, but knowing Habbo they will complain about that. They seemed to of complained and even banned a member who used this forum when they made a remark about Lost_Witness (or someone in the offices at least).

Ok darlings, I'm here to save the day.
Sulake clearly think they're just messing with kids who want to earn a few bob from running a fansite, but scare tactics don't get around my skills and truths :8

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Originally Posted by Soil

Take the risk? Sure. The site would then be closed as we are using habbo images.

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Incorrect. Sulake own the copyright to the images, yes, but copyrighted images can still be displayed by those other than the holders as long as credit is given. Think about the multitude of Runescape, WoW, Final Fantasy, Pokémon and every other type of fansite around - all you have to do is have a footnote saying "images copyright Sulake.ltd" etc etc

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Originally Posted by MissAlice

I think Habbox should get legal advice, because I don't think it's right to be expected to run a site without any financial help. The money that it costs owners to run sites is quite a bit of money and the owners do not make a profit, while it's a very tiny splash in the ocean to the likes of Sulake, who make millions.

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No need darling, we have a free genius :D

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Originally Posted by SkaterChu

I'm afraid no matter what work around you think of, if you are are reciving money and users are reciving something in return, Habbo will take legal action against you.

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Again, if you give credit to Sulake for any images you have on your site you'll be fine. Receiving money for something that's actually illegal such as a retro/backwards engineered client would leave you extremely open to legal action, but images and names don't fall under that. I've got no love for your site specifically but I don't think anyone (let alone someone who has actually done fairly well with their site as opposed to a 10 year old with a web domain) to get pushed under by this.

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Originally Posted by jrh2002

They cant stop anybody mentioning habbo :s a newspaper writes a bad article on habbo but are not allowed to use the word habbo? haha

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Truth. They can't make us change our name any more than they can force images off our site if we give proper credit. Copyright on something simply means that no-one else can claim ownership or creation of it, it doesn't mean no-one else can so much as say something.

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Originally Posted by Jordy

UkchaserAl said that no service what-so-ever can be given in return for a donation otherwise it would be considered breaking the Habbo Way.

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..And so we come to my final piece for now. Sit back ladies and gentlemen as a simple yet entirely legal loophole is mentioned to you.
"Donations" whereby each person will get extras does count as selling a service - this is the same anywhere you go. However, a competition with a cost to enter is not the same thing.

Here's a little story all about how my life got flipped, turned upside down: at a school fayre when I was young, I was told of the wonders of the beer tent. Of course, I couldn't go in, but it was pure genius that I learned that day. Being a children's event and not having an alcohol license, they could not legally sell beers, so a "raffle" was set up whereby anyone with a ticket ending in 5 or 0 would "win" a beer. Of course, every ticket ended in a 5 or 0, and because alcohol can indeed be given as a gift or prize to anyone over 18, it was entirely legal.

If worst comes to worst and we are forced to remove VIP, we can implement this in its stead without any legal worries. Sell competition tickets with a prize of VIP priviledges and make it so that each ticket wins. It's not illegal to set your own competition rules, and if people still want to see that as selling a service, a seperate domain for it could be set up (not directly affiliated with Hx of course) whereby THEY sell tickets to an online competition, the prize being HxF VIP.

http://www.habbo.co.uk/groups/87930/id

This is just a start. Join if you wish to make a difference.

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Originally Posted by FlyingJesus

Ok darlings, I'm here to save the day.
Sulake clearly think they're just messing with kids who want to earn a few bob from running a fansite, but scare tactics don't get around my skills and truths :8



Incorrect. Sulake own the copyright to the images, yes, but copyrighted images can still be displayed by those other than the holders as long as credit is given. Think about the multitude of Runescape, WoW, Final Fantasy, Pokémon and every other type of fansite around - all you have to do is have a footnote saying "images copyright Sulake.ltd" etc etc



No need darling, we have a free genius :D



Again, if you give credit to Sulake for any images you have on your site you'll be fine. Receiving money for something that's actually illegal such as a retro/backwards engineered client would leave you extremely open to legal action, but images and names don't fall under that. I've got no love for your site specifically but I don't think anyone (let alone someone who has actually done fairly well with their site as opposed to a 10 year old with a web domain) to get pushed under by this.



Truth. They can't make us change our name any more than they can force images off our site if we give proper credit. Copyright on something simply means that no-one else can claim ownership or creation of it, it doesn't mean no-one else can so much as say something.



..And so we come to my final piece for now. Sit back ladies and gentlemen as a simple yet entirely legal loophole is mentioned to you.
"Donations" whereby each person will get extras does count as selling a service - this is the same anywhere you go. However, a competition with a cost to enter is not the same thing.

Here's a little story all about how my life got flipped, turned upside down: at a school fayre when I was young, I was told of the wonders of the beer tent. Of course, I couldn't go in, but it was pure genius that I learned that day. Being a children's event and not having an alcohol license, they could not legally sell beers, so a "raffle" was set up whereby anyone with a ticket ending in 5 or 0 would "win" a beer. Of course, every ticket ended in a 5 or 0, and because alcohol can indeed be given as a gift or prize to anyone over 18, it was entirely legal.

If worst comes to worst and we are forced to remove VIP, we can implement this in its stead without any legal worries. Sell competition tickets with a prize of VIP priviledges and make it so that each ticket wins. It's not illegal to set your own competition rules, and if people still want to see that as selling a service, a seperate domain for it could be set up (not directly affiliated with Hx of course) whereby THEY sell tickets to an online competition, the prize being HxF VIP.

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Nice loophole and all that but that would hugely put people off buying VIP if they have to go through all that. It would complicate the system massively and confuse some users. I would rep you for the idea but I'm on mobile skin lol.

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Originally Posted by FlyingJesus

[SIZE=3]If worst comes to worst and we are forced to remove VIP, we can implement this in its stead without any legal worries. Sell competition tickets with a prize of VIP priviledges and make it so that each ticket wins. It's not illegal to set your own competition rules, and if people still want to see that as selling a service, a seperate domain for it could be set up (not directly affiliated with Hx of course) whereby THEY sell tickets to an online competition, the prize being HxF VIP.

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How do you propose Habbox do that when Habbo can't see the ticket/raffle system? Habbox will have to show Habbo the numbers in the hat or the numbers member have. Otherwise it will just look like calling a cat a dog, by which I mean "you're still selling VIP, but calling it a raffle where everyone wins!"

The seperate domain could work. Just get a manager to buy a domain and have VIP go through that as a raffle/competition or product. I don't think sierk could own it, because Habbox will fall in the same predicament, but with an extra domain involved.

Habbo can have a look at the system if they really want - there's no law against setting your own terms for a competition, and those terms could easily be that all tickets have winning numbers.

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Originally Posted by FlyingJesus

Habbo can have a look at the system if they really want - there's no law against setting your own terms for a competition, and those terms could easily be that all tickets have winning numbers.

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Then they would notice that each ticket results with everyone getting the same prize, which as far as I am aware, would still be selling premium services but trying to make it complicated. That's how they might see it though.

Whatever they see it as, it's a legal loophole. We'd know and they'd know that it's a way around their rules, and hell we could even make that a known fact by publishing it, but it still wouldn't be against any laws.

They would make a new rule up though?

Yes, Habbox has been ordered to remove its VIP services.

FJ it doesn't really work like that, RuneScape is alowed to shut down sites as the idea is someone is making money as a result of using their images. Yes, Habbox is not for profit, but it makes revenues through VIP donations. Therefore, Habbo has the right to take us down, even if we really haven't done anything wrong. If we post a message about L_Ws mother, they can yank our right to use their images and content, so that's what they'll do if we run a competition.

We were going to announce this seperately but I guess cat's out of the bag. VIP will be leaving end of November however we will continue to honor any VIP payments through their end, so if you really wanted you could buy VIP for two years and have it.

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Originally Posted by nvrspk4

Yes, Habbox has been ordered to remove its VIP services.

FJ it doesn't really work like that, RuneScape is alowed to shut down sites as the idea is someone is making money as a result of using their images. Yes, Habbox is not for profit, but it makes revenues through VIP donations. Therefore, Habbo has the right to take us down, even if we really haven't done anything wrong. If we post a message about L_Ws mother, they can yank our right to use their images and content, so that's what they'll do if we run a competition.

We were going to announce this seperately but I guess cat's out of the bag. VIP will be leaving end of November however we will continue to honor any VIP payments through their end, so if you really wanted you could buy VIP for two years and have it.

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Gah you arent on MSN are you? Cos I had an great idea on how to overcome all this :P

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Originally Posted by nvrspk4

Yes, Habbox has been ordered to remove its VIP services.

FJ it doesn't really work like that, RuneScape is alowed to shut down sites as the idea is someone is making money as a result of using their images. Yes, Habbox is not for profit, but it makes revenues through VIP donations. Therefore, Habbo has the right to take us down, even if we really haven't done anything wrong. If we post a message about L_Ws mother, they can yank our right to use their images and content, so that's what they'll do if we run a competition.

We were going to announce this seperately but I guess cat's out of the bag. VIP will be leaving end of November however we will continue to honor any VIP payments through their end, so if you really wanted you could buy VIP for two years and have it.

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NOOOOOOOOOOO! :@:@:@:@:@:@

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Originally Posted by nvrspk4

Yes, Habbox has been ordered to remove its VIP services.

FJ it doesn't really work like that, RuneScape is alowed to shut down sites as the idea is someone is making money as a result of using their images. Yes, Habbox is not for profit, but it makes revenues through VIP donations. Therefore, Habbo has the right to take us down, even if we really haven't done anything wrong. If we post a message about L_Ws mother, they can yank our right to use their images and content, so that's what they'll do if we run a competition.

We were going to announce this seperately but I guess cat's out of the bag. VIP will be leaving end of November however we will continue to honor any VIP payments through their end, so if you really wanted you could buy VIP for two years and have it.

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Have you replied to them, trying to reason with them with how utterly stupid this move is? :P

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Originally Posted by nvrspk4

FJ it doesn't really work like that, RuneScape is alowed to shut down sites as the idea is someone is making money as a result of using their images.

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We aren't making profit as a result of their images though, it would be different if you got a free picture of a Habbo with your VIP but it's completely different and non-related.

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Originally Posted by nvrspk4

Yes, Habbox is not for profit, but it makes revenues through VIP donations. Therefore, Habbo has the right to take us down, even if we really haven't done anything wrong. If we post a message about L_Ws mother, they can yank our right to use their images and content, so that's what they'll do if we run a competition.

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Hence having the "competition" on another domain - VIP manager could easily own it and still not have it as an official part of the site, and there would seriously be no legal action they could bring against us. Also as you mentioned, we are non-profit, so we aren't actually making any business off their name.

http://www.habbo.co.uk/groups/87930/id Join the group more information coming soon.

What no!! I'll be made redundant!!

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Originally Posted by nvrspk4

Yes, Habbox has been ordered to remove its VIP services.

FJ it doesn't really work like that, RuneScape is alowed to shut down sites as the idea is someone is making money as a result of using their images. Yes, Habbox is not for profit, but it makes revenues through VIP donations. Therefore, Habbo has the right to take us down, even if we really haven't done anything wrong. If we post a message about L_Ws mother, they can yank our right to use their images and content, so that's what they'll do if we run a competition.

We were going to announce this seperately but I guess cat's out of the bag. VIP will be leaving end of November however we will continue to honor any VIP payments through their end, so if you really wanted you could buy VIP for two years and have it.

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Originally Posted by brandon

What no!! I'll be made redundant!!

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Think about his children! :(

:O! I have a cunning idea... You pretend to be a dad, I'd be a son and nvrspk4 could be the mum. We shall give them a guilt trip when they see our muddy little faces! :D

Thinking of charity here we're gonna rock these fools haha

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Originally Posted by nvrspk4

Yes, Habbox has been ordered to remove its VIP services.

FJ it doesn't really work like that, RuneScape is alowed to shut down sites as the idea is someone is making money as a result of using their images. Yes, Habbox is not for profit, but it makes revenues through VIP donations. Therefore, Habbo has the right to take us down, even if we really haven't done anything wrong. If we post a message about L_Ws mother, they can yank our right to use their images and content, so that's what they'll do if we run a competition.

We were going to announce this seperately but I guess cat's out of the bag. VIP will be leaving end of November however we will continue to honor any VIP payments through their end, so if you really wanted you could buy VIP for two years and have it.

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Its a very sad day if you dont FIGHT this bullying bunch of scum bags.
I really thought Sierk would relish getting stuck into them over this. I have always found Sierk a very strong character who has always fought for whats right :(
Habbox has got a great fanbase now who would stop with them whatever :o get in touch with some other games to see if they would have a problem with VIP and promote their site? imagine all the lost revenue to habbo then and then change from being habbo related and then just minor habbo news etc.

@ NVR
Has any explanation been offered from habbo?


If you dont have any fight I might as well log back out and not come back.

Would it be possible to register as a charity?

People will not be paying for VIP features, but will simply be donating towards the charities main goal - to raise money for a specified charity. And if management choose to, these people may just by chance receive features others don't. They can't complain for that surely - as admins, mods etc. have different features from normal users so why not just make those who donate to charity coincidently get something extra.

That way, we could give the donations towards a charity, but in the UK the company is actually allowed to keep a percentage for the upkeep of the company.

The charity could even be interchangable, with users getting to vote each month which charity the donations go to?

Another quick thought of a loop hole... People who decide to 'donate' for the upkeep of the website happen to become 'Staff'.
We could invent a new role that includes all the features of vip, but maybe some element of optional 'work' that could be done and it could just be a coincidence that those who donate generally appear to be the main people with this 'job'. They can't criticise us for hiring staff with extra features than others to run the site.

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Originally Posted by jrh2002

Its a very sad day if you dont FIGHT this bullying bunch of scum bags.
I really thought Sierk would relish getting stuck into them over this. I have always found Sierk a very strong character who has always fought for whats right :(
Habbox has got a great fanbase now who would stop with them whatever :o get in touch with some other games to see if they would have a problem with VIP and promote their site? imagine all the lost revenue to habbo then and then change from being habbo related and then just minor habbo news etc.

@ NVR
Has any explanation been offered from habbo?


If you dont have any fight I might as well log back out and not come back.

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I agree. Why not fight it?

Its easy to see that Habbo are just taking... where's the give? There should be a comprimise and we should demand it.

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Originally Posted by Ostinato

Would it be possible to register as a charity?

People will not be paying for VIP features, but will simply be donating towards the charities main goal - to raise money for a specified charity. And if management choose to, these people may just by chance receive features others don't. They can't complain for that surely - as admins, mods etc. have different features from normal users so why not just make those who donate to charity coincidently get something extra.

That way, we could give the donations towards a charity, but in the UK the company is actually allowed to keep a percentage for the upkeep of the company.

The charity could even be interchangable, with users getting to vote each month which charity the donations go to?

Another quick thought of a loop hole... People who decide to 'donate' for the upkeep of the website happen to become 'Staff'.
We could invent a new role that includes all the features of vip, but maybe some element of optional 'work' that could be done and it could just be a coincidence that those who donate generally appear to be the main people with this 'job'. They can't criticise us for hiring staff with extra features than others to run the site.

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Great idea :)

not many will know this but its eitherr 90 or 95% of charity donations can be used as expenses and only 10 or 5% needs to go to the cause :o
And with hx donating any profits at xmas they have a tack record of doing this before this stupid rule existed. would make a great story for the papers if sulake were trying to close a site down that donated any profits to a childrens charity like child line etc.

+ rep if i can.

Will there be different ways to get VIP or the same as VIP but obviously not called VIP a different way, nvr? If so, I will buy a few years of VIP now before it vanishes forever. I already have VIP until late 2010 lol.