If Britain leaves the EU after he's publicly backed the remain campaign he'll look incredibly weak.
Printable View
"Britain has given away control of immigration within the EU to the EU, and retains the power only to control non-EU immigration.This has led to huge disparities where Commonwealth citizens with family in Britain struggle to obtain visas whilst EU citizens with little link with the UK can automatically work here"
This should be the priority if you ask me
No, you assess it on where it has gone and where we know it is going.
In 1975 we were promised it would only be a trading club and look at the monster it has grown into.
I haven't actually said we would have to join the EEA or EFTA but those are two choices certainly. I actually favour EFTA/Bilateral FTAs rather than the Norway model but all are preferable to EU membership. The argument you make though in relation to EU law is a false argument anyway as it would be like arguing to become a province of China in order to have a "say" in Chinese market rules. Or a state of America. All countries which trade with one another have to abide by each others rules just as American companies have to abide by British safety standards.Quote:
Originally Posted by abc
Besides all this Britain would be able to negotiate a much better deal than Norway or Switzerland. They've got good deals and they're happy with them.
I keep hearing this influence argument yet as shown time and time again what has this supposed influence ever got us? Cameron went to the EU with some pretty basic and small reforms and came back with virtually nothing, showing just how much "influence" we have in the EU. Nilch.Quote:
Originally Posted by abc
As for exports, what rot. Our companies have to meet American, Chinese, Indian standards when they trade too.
False. The World Trade Organisation (WTO) forbids revenge tariffs.Quote:
Originally Posted by abc
In any case, even small tariffs won't be erected. Do you think German car manufacturers are going to let Angela Merkel potentially put tens of thousands of German workers out of work by making trade with Britain harder to do? 5 million jobs in Europe depend on UK trade, they won't hurt themselves.
I could quote thinktanks and economists saying exactly the opposite.Quote:
Originally Posted by abc
The EU is actually a danger to the City with excessive regulation. The City is successful because of low taxes and low regulation, not the EU lol.
Is the financial centre of Hong Kong in the European Union? Is Singapore? Is New York? Is Dubai? Is Jeddah?
Staying has more ifs and dangers.Quote:
Originally Posted by abc
If we stay we face being trapped in a club where the Eurozone constantly outvotes us.
If we stay we face losing our UN Security Council seat as we'll be under pressure to merge the UK-FR seats into an EU seat.
If we stay we face the threat of terror attacks due to the EU's inability to control its borders.
If we stay we face being sucked into an EU army which they are intent on building.
If we stay we face tighter regulations on the City of London which would mean business moving to Frankfurt.
If we stay we face more bailouts for the Eurozone countries.
If we stay we face an even bigger bill as countries like Bosnia and Turkey join.
If we stay we face having to overhaul our entire legal system changing from common law to European law.
If we stay we miss out on signing Free Trade Deals with growing economies like China, India, Brazil and South Africa.
If we stay we face being dragged into more conflicts in Eastern Europe as seen with the game of Russian roulette over Ukraine.
Leaving would...
Return sovereignty to parliament so British law is made by our elected Commons.
Allow us to sign FTAs with growing economies like India, China and Australia.
Improve relations between Britain and the EU as we wouldn't be standing in the way of their integration.
Give us back control of our own waters so British fishing fleets aren't competing in our own waters with European fleets.
Have us improve and build on relations with the Commonwealth and use it as a forum for global trade negotiations.
Give us the ability to control our borders and immigration which we currently cannot do.
Save us billions every year in membership fees.
Allow us cheaper goods such as food as we wouldn't then be forced into paying more for say French goods.
Help developing countries in Africa by signing FTAs with them as well as bringing our shopping costs down.
Develop closer relations with Switzerland, Iceland and Norway meaning other EU countries which also want out have a strong alternative.
Indeed the entire immigration system is absurd when it comes to the EU.
A criminal from Slovakia has an automatic right to come to Britain yet a Canadian faces red tape. It is upside down.
I mean we as in the public.
We were told this...
And meanwhile the Foreign Office wasn't telling us the truth...Quote:
“There are some in this country who fear that in going into Europe we shall in some way sacrifice independence and sovereignty. These fears, I need hardly say, are completely unjustified.”
Prime Minister Edward Heath, television broadcast on Britain’s entry into the Common Market, January 1973
And we're still not being told the truth in public now either by those wanting to keep us in as to where this thing is heading.Quote:
Originally Posted by FCO internal memo
Britain doesn't want to be in a federal Europe so why not accept this and leave now in favourable conditions rather than leave ten years down the road.
Tbh it's all wrong and we need a new system hence the referendum i guess
y'all idiots better not jeopardise the future of this country
I have no firm stance one way or the other but if the EU is really trying to become an exclusive socio-corporate bloc would they not try to put up barriers against a lot of trading deals anyway whether we stay or not? And if that's really the case rather than just a scary conspiracy theory would it not then mean that leaving will set us fully against the EU trading group and give us a great many more countries that we can't trade with at all compared to the few further afield that we'd be more open to?
I don't get it sorry? I'll try answer what I think you're asking. They're basically building a state of which the Eurozone will be the beginnings of but they won't stop trading with other countries, they can't afford to cut other countries off including Britain. We'd be able to sign a Free Trade Agreement (FTA) with the EU itself as a bloc... it currently signs FTAs on our behalf but they're often not very free market (due to French opposition and having to take into account all 28 member states provisions) and they're very slow at completing them. I think the last time I checked tiny Switzerland has signed more FTAs than the EU.
Britain on the other hand is much more pro-free market and along with our legal system and outlook matching that of the Commonwealth we'd be able to sign FTAs with India, Bangladesh, Canada, Australia, New Zealand etc quite quickly I would think. When the world's 5th largest economy and largest financial centre in the world is free and able to sign FTAs there will be a queue to sign with us. And our deals will be quite extensive/open across all economic sectors.
Does that answer what you mean? :P