EU Elections

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Originally Posted by FlyDuo

No its not? Do you understand politics atall? Left wing is pushing for the socialist idea that everyone is more or less equal and has equal rights which is completely the opposite of what the BNP want. The BNP claim to support British people but behind closed doors it has been said that they want to ban Homosexuality, surely Gay people are British citizens too or have I gone insane? Some people vote BNP in general elections as a protest vote because the "first past the post" electoral system means that it doesn't matter. The EU system however is completely proportional so if people vote BNP in protest then me will see some BNP representatives in the European parliament. So please, if you wish to protest against the EU then vote conservative or even UKIP if you have too, just not the BNP.

Putting limits on immigration isn't racist but segregating those immigrants who already live in Britain is. If you wanted to move to America then you would expect to be able to, right? So why shouldn't people from other countries be able to move here? It works both ways.

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As I said it is a mix between the two, maybe next time before you launch an attack actually bother to read what I said. The idea of nationalisation applies directly to socialism, the idea that we should leave the EU would also apply not only to right wing supporters but also certain extreme groups such as communist/socialist partys. As on the issue of crime and punishment, their policies appeal not only to conservatives like me, but also extreme socialists.

Therefore they are a mix of the two, especially on the nationalisation issue which is against all conservative belief of small state and private enterprise. In conclusion, I do indeed understand politics.

As for the protest vote, yes I agree with you, and many conservative voters if having full knowledge of BNP proposals would be more inclined to vote for UKIP, and Labour supporters more inclined to vote for BNP - it is widely acknowledged. I would agree certainly, do not vote the BNP, vote UKIP.

If I wanted to move to America I would be put under tough regulations and checks on my age, criminal record and so on, as should be done here. I'm not totally against immigration, I, like the majority of this country, want some control over our own immigration.

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Originally Posted by UKIP

As I said it is a mix between the two, maybe next time before you launch an attack actually bother to read what I said. The idea of nationalisation applies directly to socialism, the idea that we should leave the EU would also apply not only to right wing supporters but also certain extreme groups such as communist/socialist partys. As on the issue of crime and punishment, their policies appeal not only to conservatives like me, but also extreme socialists.

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No. Being against the EU is a right wing policy so you cant use it as an example of how the BNP is partly left wing. Socialism believes in a large government which is exactly what the EU is, it believes people are naturally good and are naturally drawn to one another. The long and short of it is, the BNP supports leaving the EU which IS a right wing policy. Even if a left wing party likes it, it's still a right wing policy.

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Originally Posted by UKIP

As for the protest vote, yes I agree with you, and many conservative voters if having full knowledge of BNP proposals would be more inclined to vote for UKIP, and Labour supporters more inclined to vote for BNP - it is widely acknowledged. I would agree certainly, do not vote the BNP, vote UKIP.

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WHAT THE HELL!?!?. Why would Labour voters be inclined to vote for the BNP? Thats completely against everything that they believe. Surely if people are left wing then if they are dissolusioned with Labour then they would vote for the most left wing alternative.

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Originally Posted by UKIP

If I wanted to move to America I would be put under tough regulations and checks on my age, criminal record and so on, as should be done here. I'm not totally against immigration, I, like the majority of this country, want some control over our own immigration.

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Like I said, control over immigration is fine but thats not what the BNP wants. I have no problems with limits on immigration but we need to allow some. The BNP wants to segregate those immigrants already in the country but also to segregate certain areas of the British People such as Homosexuals. How can that be right?

To be honest it seems to me that you are making up facts to support your own political agenda which is obviously atleast a little bit racist.

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Originally Posted by UKIP

Drama queen by saying the logo/flag make you sick, when all the logo is are three letters stamped across the union flag. Please do, I don't support the BNP, but as far as I know they have never been that radical, at least on television.

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Im saying any association with them i dislike and i disagree with their views whether they are radical or not.

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Originally Posted by Dan2nd

Ok fair enough sorry for coming accross as rather aggressive before.

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its okay :)

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Originally Posted by FlyDuo

No. Being against the EU is a right wing policy so you cant use it as an example of how the BNP is partly left wing. Socialism believes in a large government which is exactly what the EU is, it believes people are naturally good and are naturally drawn to one another. The long and short of it is, the BNP supports leaving the EU which IS a right wing policy. Even if a left wing party likes it, it's still a right wing policy.

WHAT THE HELL!?!?. Why would Labour voters be inclined to vote for the BNP? Thats completely against everything that they believe. Surely if people are left wing then if they are dissolusioned with Labour then they would vote for the most left wing alternative.

Like I said, control over immigration is fine but thats not what the BNP wants. I have no problems with limits on immigration but we need to allow some. The BNP wants to segregate those immigrants already in the country but also to segregate certain areas of the British People such as Homosexuals. How can that be right?

To be honest it seems to me that you are making up facts to support your own political agenda which is obviously atleast a little bit racist.

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A lot of communist/socialist partys hate it aswell that is my point, the BNP is not all right wing, its a mix of the two and is precisely why I don't support it. It is true Labour voters would be inclined to vote for the BNP as the BNP provides what many hardcore Labour voters want and feel that the New Labour brand is too thatcherite in its principles. A lot of Labour voters feel communist and other socialist parties being too far on the left wing spectrum, so vote for the BNP as a protest vote rather than UKIP which is very Conservative, more so than the Conservative Party.

It isn't right, but the idea of controlled immigration is right. That is why I do not support the BNP as I have said before.

How dare you call me racist, I don't even support the BNP, your just throwing the term racist around like a ball. Don't say I make up stuff when your claming i'm a racist, if supporting controlled immigration/no immigration is racist then send me and the majority of this country to the gallows.

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Originally Posted by UKIP

A lot of communist/socialist partys hate it aswell that is my point

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As I said, that isnt actually relevant if a minority left wing party supports it. By DEFINITION the EU would be a left wing policy. This isn't debatable. The core ideology of Socialism is a belief in a large govement, I'm not talking about Socialist parties here. Pro-EU is left wing, Anti-EU is right wing. Its central to their ideologies. Fact.

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Originally Posted by UKIP

the BNP is not all right wing, its a mix of the two and is precisely why I don't support it.

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So you're saying the BNP isn't right wing enough? Oh man thats stupid.

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Originally Posted by UKIP

It is true Labour voters would be inclined to vote for the BNP as the BNP provides what many hardcore Labour voters want and feel that the New Labour brand is too thatcherite in its principles. A lot of Labour voters feel communist and other socialist parties being too far on the left wing spectrum, so vote for the BNP as a protest vote rather than UKIP which is very Conservative, more so than the Conservative Party.

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You clearly don't understand the concept of a protest vote. People don't vote BNP in protest because they like them, they vote it in protest. Hence the name. They still feel inclined to vote but they aren't going to vote for a mainstream party such as the Conservatives which have a chance at beating their party. They vote for a minority such as the BNP which have no real chance of governance, they are sticking two fingers up to the party they support, not voting for a party which is one which completely conflicts with their ideology.

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Originally Posted by UKIP

How dare you call me racist, I don't even support the BNP, your just throwing the term racist around like a ball. Don't say I make up stuff when your claming i'm a racist, if supporting controlled immigration/no immigration is racist then send me and the majority of this country to the gallows.

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If you support the BNP then you generally are a racist. Whether or not you say you support them you blatently do, thoughtout this thread you have stuck up for them and considering you said you'd rather vote for them than Labour and the Liberal Democrats you blatently aren't a very liberal person.

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Originally Posted by UKIP

send me and the majority of this country to the gallows.

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No because unlike you I dont support needless capital punishment

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Originally Posted by FlyDuo

As I said, that isnt actually relevant if a minority left wing party supports it. By DEFINITION the EU would be a left wing policy. This isn't debatable. The core ideology of Socialism is a belief in a large govement, I'm not talking about Socialist parties here. Pro-EU is left wing, Anti-EU is right wing. Its central to their ideologies. Fact.

So you're saying the BNP isn't right wing enough? Oh man thats stupid.

You clearly don't understand the concept of a protest vote. People don't vote BNP in protest because they like them, they vote it in protest. Hence the name. They still feel inclined to vote but they aren't going to vote for a mainstream party such as the Conservatives which have a chance at beating their party. They vote for a minority such as the BNP which have no real chance of governance, they are sticking two fingers up to the party they support, not voting for a party which is one which completely conflicts with their ideology.

If you support the BNP then you generally are a racist. Whether or not you say you support them you blatently do, thoughtout this thread you have stuck up for them and considering you said you'd rather vote for them than Labour and the Liberal Democrats you blatently aren't a very liberal person.

No because unlike you I dont support needless capital punishment

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The EU is indeed normally a left wing policy, but some on the extreme left see it as a right wing organisation, completly the opposite to communism/socialism while those on the right see it was a very left wing organisation. That is my point.

Who said the BNP isn't right wing enough?, I didn't say anything of the sort. I am simply stating that Conservative supporters who are disillusioned with the Conservative Party as it stands would be more likely to vote for UKIP as UKIP is far more right wing than the BNP. Your trying to twist my words to suit your side.

Many vote for the BNP as they believe in many of the BNP's principals of their policies and that they feel the main partys have lost their own principals and have all become centre wing. Then you have, as you say, protest votes. However as shown in recent polls the protest vote for the BNP over the recent scandal has not really boosted their support (from what we can see from the polls) as the BNP are flatlining on 4% whereas UKIP has over doubled in the polls, which tells us something; that UKIP's recent boost in support, is a protest vote but shows real support and trust for UKIP over the likes of the BNP and the Greens.

I do not support them, don't you put words in my mouth as you keep trying to do, the one thing I cannot stand in arguments is when you put words in my mouth, because when you start making stories up and presuming the whole argument it shows you have lost it.

I do not support them for a number of reasons;

• I believe their socialist economic policies would cripple the economy.
• I believe having the BNP as government would badly damage our relations with many countries.
• I believe many of their members/those higher up are indeed up to no good.

However I am defending parts of them because some of their policies do infact make sense, people do want to leave the EU, people do want tougher criminal sentences and people do want tougher immigration; or none at all. I believe in democracy, as do UKIP who seem the strongest advocates of democracy, and that means I believe any party should be able to stand, no matter how far to the right or left they are, as I believe if you are going to ban partys considered to be to the far right then you have to do the same for partys on the extreme left, many would would love to see a communist revolution in this country, so both can be just as dangerous.

I would rather see a BNP seat in the European Parliament than Labour or Liberal Democrats, because while they wouldn't hold any real power they would defend our interests, something that Labour and the Liberal Democrats certainly do not do and the Conservatives flip regulary as any mention of the EU brings the party into chaos.

That doesn't mean I am racist, if you still think so your just using the racism card as your backup as I have discussed things like this in the past, and all the other side seem to be able to do is hold up the racism card no matter what I say, and despite the fact I don't support the BNP at all and wish for UKIP/Conservative to do the best in the European Elections.

That had nothing to do with what I said on immigration, your just avoiding my points now.