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It favours both the Labour Party and Conservative Party although granted it does favour the Labour Party more than the Conservatives. I am with Nick Clegg all the way in the sense that every vote should count and I dont see how any party claiming to be democratic can disgaree with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by jam666
You guys just shot yourself in the foot. You said 77% of the population did not choose Nick Clegg and electoral reform but seeing as: Labour, Liberal Democrats, UKIP, Greens and many more all advocate a referendum on electoral reform the Conservatives are in the minority on the topic are they not?
I specifically said 77% of the country did not pick the Lib Dems therefore our system is wrong if they get to choose the who gets into power. I'm not blaming the Lib Dems for that seeing as it's how our system works.Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyDuo
But to be fair Labour only began supporting electoral reform after the Exit Polls came in. There's nothing in their manifesto supporting it so when people voted Labour, they weren't voting for electoral reform. At least 65.1% of the public did not vote for electoral reform therefore.
77% of the population did not vote for Nick Clegg. FACT. Whilst the Conservatives may seem like the minority party in this, the same could be said for the Lib Dems and their amnesty on illegal immigrants therefore your point has no basis. However most of the other partys want PR so that they will have more power which is quite a selfish reason to support it. You could counter this by saying some votes dont count and yes i agree with that but the minority partys only want PR so they are more powerful.Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyDuo
You can say the Conservatives support FPTP as they will be better off but in reality FPTP largely favours labour so this point has no basis either.
Quite frankly im appaled by Nick Clegg and the Liberal Democrats as 77% of the population did not vote for them but they are practically holding the country to randsome over PR?. Sorry this is plain selfish and someone should tell him to go hide in a closet, lock the door and then throw away the key and let the big boys rectify the current situation. Who on earth do they think they are demanding certain policys etc when the Conservative Party WON the egeneral election and therefore could simply form a minority government without the lib dems so they should be thankful that they are atleast being given an opportunity.
Im also appalled at the posibility of Lib Dem Cabinet position as the most unstable feature about a coalition government is the lib dems themselves. Plus 82% of the Conservative party do not want to work with the lib dems and therefore no cabinet positions should be given.
In my idea of democracy and the broad idea of democracy, over 50% of the electorate should choose a government - with FPTP this does not happen and it is wrong. Nick Clegg may not have been choosen by the electorate but neither was David Cameron because he himself only got a 36% slice of the vote yet would recieve around 50% of the seats in the House of Commons which goes to show, this system is not right and I hope to god that Nick Clegg forces them (Conservatives or Labour) to accept proportional representation.
No, Labour have proposed a referendum on AV for the past few months. A YouGov Poll this week showed that 62% of the population want a more proportional electoral system. What does that tell you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordy
The vast majority of people voted for parties that support some form of electoral reform. FACT.Quote:
Originally Posted by jam666
Please indicate where Nick Clegg or indeed anyone has said he will include an amnesty on illegal immigrants in the negotiations. Therefore that is completely irrelevant. I accept that the vast majority of people didn't vote for parties with that policy which is why it isn't being adopted.Quote:
Originally Posted by jam666
So you are saying having A true democracy is selfish? Boy are you naive. The Conservatives want to keep FPTP to preserve their seats, under PR there would be no safe seats. Under FPTP it essentially guarantees that either the Conservatives or Labour will get in and usually with a Majority which is why they wish to keep it.Quote:
Originally Posted by jam666
A) Its not the Liberal Democrats asking for Cabinet positionsQuote:
Originally Posted by jam666
B) Where did this "82% stat" come from?
FICTION. You are simply WRONG. 65.1% of people voted for the Conservatives and Labour(which did not support any form of voting reform until after the exit polls) therefore 34.9% of people voted for partys who want electoral reform. This shows that the vast majority of people did not vote for any kind of electoral reform.Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyDuo
I did not say that Nick Clegg wants to include an amnesty on illegal immigrants. I was simply showing that the Conservatives may be the minority party in supporting FPTP but the liberals are the MINORITY in supporting an illegal immigrant amnesty.Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyDuo
No, what im saying is selfish is the fact that nick clegg is demanding PR and practically holding the country to randsome when he DID NOT win the general election and therefore is in no position to demand anything. Its a matter of fact that you are naive as if you actually researched the matter you would see that FPTP largely favours LABOUR.Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyDuo
You know little about the subject when there have been rumours for DAYS indicating that the liberals were going to get 3 cabinet positions. The 82% figure is FACT. If you watch sky news there have been polls all day showing that 82% of the Conservative Party do not want any form of coalition with the lib dems.Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyDuo
NO. You are wrong. Labour have advocated AV for months AND it IS in their manifesto. Additionally as I have said the YouGov independent poll shows that the vast majority of people are pro-reform.Quote:
Originally Posted by jam666
He is a minority in supporting the amnesty just like Cameron is a minority in supporting FPTP, we aren't having the amnesty so why keep FPTP?Quote:
Originally Posted by jam666
Did I say that it didn't favour Labour over the Tories? NO. It does however favour both Labour AND the Tories over everyone else because it discounts and essentially wastes all their votes. It keeps the constant rotation of Labour and Tory governments which is why the Tories are so eager to keep it.Quote:
Originally Posted by jam666
I'm sorry but me? Know little about the Liberal Democrats? Oh you fool. Perhaps you should re-read my post. The Liberal Democrats never demanded 3 cabinet seats, they were offered them by the Conservatives in order to entice them away from Labour. Most people do not expect a formal coalition and do not expect the Liberal Democrats to take these positions but alas only time will tell.Quote:
Originally Posted by jam666
Sky News? The very people that reported David Cameron won the first leaders debate in their polls and then just an Hour later reported that Nick Clegg had won? Oh please. Seriously. Stop saying things are facts when they clearly are not.Quote:
Originally Posted by jam666
You are dismissing the figures i previously posted as you fail to admit the truth that you only want PR so your small minority party which represents 23% of the electorate can have a taste of power after over a century in the wilderness? Please, look whos getting desperate.Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyDuo
Oh dear.. someone forgot to read the Liberal Democrat manifesto. Im a Conservative supporter but i know more about the lib-dem manfiesto than a liberal democrat?, something is slightly wrong here. Its clear that the amnesty on illegal immigrants is in your manifesto so please read it. You also stated yourself in a previous post that it was part of their manifesto but admitted it was not to be included in the current debates over a new coalition goverment.Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyDuo
Next time please use a better choice of words as you IMPLIED that it did by failing to mention Labour and simply having an attack on the Conservatives. FPTP favours labour as there are many smaller constituancys within towns and citys which labour hold, but conservatives hold large rural constituancys and this is why the system at the moment favours LABOUR.Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyDuo
You need to re-read MY post as i clearly never said they demanded 3 cabinet seats so please stop implying that i had. The Conservatives never offered them 3 cabinet seats either, its simply rumours so therefore cant be used as an enticement bargain and as far as members of the conservative party are concerned your welcome to snuggle up to your bigger brother labour and have fun self slaughtering yourselves over the course of the next year of which a new general election will be called and then the Conservatives can stroll right in with a majority when the great british public realise what a mess left-centre governments leave the country in.Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyDuo
I watched Sky News during the first leaders debate and they clearly said that nick clegg won from the very beginning with 51% of the vote therefore you are WRONG again. Please stop denying the FACT that 82% of the Conservative party would not like a Con/Lib coalition as it is a FACT. Are you a Conservative party member?. No, i thought not because if you were you would of also recieved an email earlier today confirming this!.Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyDuo
WHAT STATISTIC? My party is a minority party but thats irrelevant? The vote for electoral reform is a great deal larger than that against it which is why PR should be pushed in negotiations. The government represents the public, that is their function. If the public wants it then it should be put into place.Quote:
Originally Posted by jam666
Well you forgot to read my post. Idiot. I clearly stated that the amnesty is not being implemented because it has not gained popular support, electoral reform on the other hand has. If you can provide me with statistics that show that the Conservatives won more votes than Labour, the Liberal Democrats, UKIP, Green party etc combined then I may agree with you. The government is supposed to represent the British people, as I keep saying with the YouGov poll which you have completely ignored, the British people want electoral reform.Quote:
Originally Posted by jam666
I never said it didn't favour Labour you just jumped to conclusions. I am fully aware of the electoral system and it undoubtedly favours Labour and the Conservatives over all other parties as I have repeatedly said.Quote:
Originally Posted by jam666
So you are admitting that your party is at fault.?Quote:
Originally Posted by jam666
Thats odd, you seem to be seeing a completely different TV programme to me and everyone else. In fact John Prescott has tweeted about the poll several times. How very strange. Also you can't definitively say that "82% of the Conservative party" want this, it's not a fact at all. Its a sample of a small proportion of the party and judging by Sky News' Polls in the past it won't be very accurate.Quote:
Originally Posted by jam666