Has Britain Declined? [ENDS 20/06/2010]

this thread isn't really about the EU but i'll say this:

Britain is a PART of the EU, not RULED by the EU.

&that's all i have to say on it. and there is a difference.

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Originally Posted by alexxxxx

this thread isn't really about the EU but i'll say this:

Britain is a PART of the EU, not RULED by the EU.

&that's all i have to say on it. and there is a difference.

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Not according to Undertaker.
Britain doesn't have to completely bow down to what the EU says.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by alexxxxx

this thread isn't really about the EU but i'll say this:

Britain is a PART of the EU, not RULED by the EU.

&that's all i have to say on it. and there is a difference.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Saracen

Not according to Undertaker.
Britain doesn't have to completely bow down to what the EU says.

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As I stated before, EU courts and law have supremacy over British courts and law. Name it how you want; bow down, ordered, ruled by etc - it is fact and it is a sign of the decline of Britain as we severed trading ties with the Commonwealth, not to mention it [the European project] is totally wrong and has no democracic legitimacy. Let us stop pretending the EU is some sort of club because it isnt. We can either accept decline and surrender ourselves to the European Union and become a stale part of the world as Europe is posed to become, or we can trade with the world and remain a sovereign state.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

As I stated before, EU courts and law have supremacy over British courts and law. Name it how you want; bow down, ordered, ruled by etc - it is fact and it is a sign of the decline of Britain as we severed trading ties with the Commonwealth, not to mention it [the European project] is totally wrong and has no democracic legitimacy. Let us stop pretending the EU is some sort of club because it isnt.

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Ok I accept your point but there's no rule that states a member cannot leave the EU.

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Originally Posted by Saracen

Ok I accept your point but there's no rule that states a member cannot leave the EU.

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There is no rule no, but when somebody has control of your monetary system, economic system, social & justice affairs and foreign affairs then you could basically say that the member state no longer exists as there is only one person incharge then, the European Union and its fellow European insitutions. I very much doubt there was a specific 'rule' banning withdrawal for Soviet states in the USSR or the states that made up Yugoslavia.

It isnt really a case about decline anymore, its more a case of whether or not we want to exist as a nation state.

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Originally Posted by Saracen

How are they different? They are both organisations formed by different countries, both setting regulations that members have to listen to. We no longer have influence over the commonwealth but that doesn't mean we have declined, we let them go, we've obviously still got good relations with the nations hence the commonwealth games. This is not decline. The Vatican City? It has influence over catholics but in worlds politics? No it hasn't. Japan has more than double our population so obviously they're going to grow at a bigger rate.
Just because over nations have overtaken us doesn't mean there is decline.

Edit: Japan is also larger by over 130,000 km squared.

Statistics of total area of countries.

KM Squared

61: Japan 377,930
79: United Kingdom 242,900

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Just to confirm, you've asked me to tell you the difference between the EU and the UN? I was gonna reply in an essay style form to all your points, but what's the point, you don't know the difference between two entirely different organisations, the EU and the UN. Quite laughable to be honest!

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

There is no rule no, but when somebody has control of your monetary system, economic system, social & justice affairs and foreign affairs then you could basically say that the member state no longer exists as there is only one person incharge then, the European Union and its fellow European insitutions. I very much doubt there was a specific 'rule' banning withdrawal for Soviet states in the USSR or the states that made up Yugoslavia.

It isnt really a case about decline anymore, its more a case of whether or not we want to exist as a nation state.

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I agree with what you say but as you also say, the debate is about whether or not Britain are declining. As my first post says, I believe that we have declined but not to a greater extent. Taking into account what you've said, I do agree that if we are more or less subject to what they say, Britain will have less influence in Europe. However, I still feel that Britain is classed as a super-power.