Trump rains hell on Syrian airbase

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Originally Posted by Landon

Nothing compared to the billions that the taxpayers pay for corrupted systems like welfare lol

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Surely welfare systems are the opposite of corrupt, in that it is those who are better off are doing something which doesn't directly benefit themselves? Corrupt would be removing welfare systems to cut taxes for those who provide some kind of payment or offer.

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Originally Posted by dbgtz

in that it is those who are better off are doing something which doesn't directly benefit themselves?

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That's the problem. We are forced to pay for the welfare system. We don't have a choice - other than I guess not paying taxes lol

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Originally Posted by Landon

That's the problem. We are forced to pay for the welfare system. We don't have a choice - other than I guess not paying taxes lol

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By that logic any government spending is corrupt and the nation state should be abolished and we adopt anarchism. I wonder what you think of Trumps spending on all his golf weekends...
So long as nobody in power benefits from implementing welfare then there is no corruption and even if the opposite is true, it's debatable. Looking at welfare specifically for the UK, the only benefits that really come under question is housing benefit due to the somewhat large volume of private landlords in the HoC. No one company or individual would really gain anything from implementing job seekers allowance, disability allowance, carers allowance etc. With the coming of automation too, we should be looking to increase the welfare state since jobs will be in decline. That, or the government funding of more social based jobs that automation can't really replace.

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Originally Posted by dbgtz

By that logic any government spending is corrupt and the nation state should be abolished and we adopt anarchism. I wonder what you think of Trumps spending on all his golf weekends...
So long as nobody in power benefits from implementing welfare then there is no corruption and even if the opposite is true, it's debatable. Looking at welfare specifically for the UK, the only benefits that really come under question is housing benefit due to the somewhat large volume of private landlords in the HoC. No one company or individual would really gain anything from implementing job seekers allowance, disability allowance, carers allowance etc. With the coming of automation too, we should be looking to increase the welfare state since jobs will be in decline. That, or the government funding of more social based jobs that automation can't really replace.

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Are you saying that we let the corrupt tax programs continue or at least not make much of an attempt to fix them?

The bottom line for me is this. Welfare is okay. So long as there is no abuse. And we all know that probably couldn't happen in the world we live in.

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Originally Posted by Landon

Are you saying that we let the corrupt tax programs continue or at least not make much of an attempt to fix them?

The bottom line for me is this. Welfare is okay. So long as there is no abuse. And we all know that probably couldn't happen in the world we live in.

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But how is it corrupt? I think you're getting confused about what corruption is. Corruption can only occur with those who have power, who are typically not the ones who receive the benefits of welfare.
There are some issues where people can claim a lot of money in benefits and live on it, sure. But they're a tiny minority and as said before, we're likely to be heading in that general direction anyway.

It's also not that big of an issue in the grand scheme of things. In the UK, £172.3 billion was spent on all welfare in 2015/16 where an estimated £1.9 billion was fraudulent (1.1%). (https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...-estimates.pdf). Compare this to £2.7 billion lost through tax avoidance and £4.4 billion through tax evasion (https://fullfact.org/economy/tax-avoidance-evasion-uk/).

In short, it does a lot more good than it does bad.

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Originally Posted by dbgtz

But how is it corrupt? I think you're getting confused about what corruption is. Corruption can only occur with those who have power, who are typically not the ones who receive the benefits of welfare.
There are some issues where people can claim a lot of money in benefits and live on it, sure. But they're a tiny minority and as said before, we're likely to be heading in that general direction anyway.

It's also not that big of an issue in the grand scheme of things. In the UK, £172.3 billion was spent on all welfare in 2015/16 where an estimated £1.9 billion was fraudulent (1.1%). (https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...-estimates.pdf). Compare this to £2.7 billion lost through tax avoidance and £4.4 billion through tax evasion (https://fullfact.org/economy/tax-avoidance-evasion-uk/).

In short, it does a lot more good than it does bad.

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£2 billion is still a lot of money though :o And that's still a lot of people that have abused the system. I definitely do agree that taxing is a much bigger issue - no problem there. I think welfare might be more of a moral issue to me though haha. That's why it ticks me off.

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Originally Posted by Landon

£2 billion is still a lot of money though :o And that's still a lot of people that have abused the system. I definitely do agree that taxing is a much bigger issue - no problem there. I think welfare might be more of a moral issue to me though haha. That's why it ticks me off.

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It's a thousandth of a percent of UK gdp. It's really not a lot.