I sooooo wanna know who made the Virgin Mary account. Lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgin Mary
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I sooooo wanna know who made the Virgin Mary account. Lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgin Mary
I did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mewt
also elaborate on why you think of yourself as 'normal' and your definition of normal, because in a world filled with so much diversity, there is no normal i'm afraid Shady.Quote:
Originally Posted by SHADYWARRIOR
What have i said hypocritcaly? and what do you mean by normal.Quote:
Originally Posted by SHADYWARRIOR
What the hell in this life is normal anyway? ;/
Lol the point of this thread had been lost....In the eys of 'God' homosexualality is wrong... Full stop, the end question answered....
p.s In the eyes of Punky it is not :p
Yeah I think we covered that,but then again so is sex before marriage I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Punky
Since when.Quote:
Originally Posted by Punky
God never said anything about homosexuality? the bible was written by people, its there opinions not gods.
Even the bible doesnt clame its wrong "/ even in the old testiment which clames selling your daughter as a slave is right "/
FFS I was just trying to end it lol. And how do you know God never said it? Have you met the dude, and asked him what he thinks?
Didn't think so.. So ner..
No one here is right and no one is wrong. Believe what you want and just leave it at that, theres no way people are going to change what they think just from reading this thread. Get over the fact that some people belive in God and some don't.. It's okay quoting philosophers and bits of the bible but at the end of the day it all just speculation, you can't say if it's right or wrong 'cause you don't know, and you never will...unless you can somehow build a time machine and go back to the beginning of time and see how it all began and then you'd know if God existed and if he did you could ask him what he thinks about homosexuality. But that aint gunna happen so I think it's just beast to leave it be :p
I didnt say i had, i just said hed never said what you said he did. Not that id heard him say otherwize?Quote:
Originally Posted by Punky
Oh we dont need a time machine, We have teliscopes and the speed of light, since light takes so long to reach us, say billions of years, when it does what is shown is the universe billions of years ago... far back enogh in fact to see the beginning of the universe :DQuote:
No one here is right and no one is wrong. Believe what you want and just leave it at that, theres no way people are going to change what they think just from reading this thread. Get over the fact that some people belive in God and some don't.. It's okay quoting philosophers and bits of the bible but at the end of the day it all just speculation, you can't say if it's right or wrong 'cause you don't know, and you never will...unless you can somehow build a time machine and go back to the beginning of time and see how it all began and then you'd know if God existed and if he did you could ask him what he thinks about homosexuality. But that aint gunna happen so I think it's just beast to leave it be :p
Okay so thats true light speed and all that jive...So why do we only have theories? Why hasn't someone just gone.. Ooo look I can see how the universe was created by looking through my telescope... and then show it to everyone???? Answer me that then?Quote:
Originally Posted by 01101101entor
Becuse im perfectly capable of looking at a car, or even driveing one without knowing how it works, how all the componets fit together, the mechanics of stearing, gears, the engine etc "/Quote:
Originally Posted by Punky
We form a theary based on the evidance, we test it, if its right we test it more, if its wrong, we adapt it and test it again, so we always slowly get towards the truth.
A scientific theary is not the same as a normal theary "/
I'll seriously gunna leave this now lol, i cant be bothered with this ne more.
Technicaly speaking? would god actaly have eyes?Quote:
Originally Posted by Punky
They may not be real to you, but to whoever sees them they are very real. Who's to say that "tricks of the mind" are not actually alterations to reality? Belief is a big thing that can alter perception of reality - any hypnotist can tell you that.Quote:
Originally Posted by 01101101entor
Congratulations on completely missing my point. Omnipotency means that you can do anything, no matter how many paradoxes it crosses, no matter how much logic it craps on. There's no way to imagine a 3-sided square, like you said, because we'd know it to be a triangle, but omnipotency would allow such a thing to still be a square. It's beyond understanding, beyond anything that you or I could possibly be taught. Omnipotency therefore is an argument which cannot be overcome.Quote:
Originally Posted by 01101101entor
The Bible is supposedly the word of God, written by prophets who scribed God's message. Whether you believe that or not is irrelevent, the point is that the Bible clearly states that a man "laying" with another man is a sin. I really couldn't care less who agrees with that or not, I personally don't care who you do or where you stick it, but trying to argue that the Bible doesn't say something when it does is really quite pointless.Quote:
Originally Posted by 01101101entor
Yes it does, as I stated above. Also, you keep referring to this point about selling your daughter into slavery, just because something isn't socially acceptable now doesn't mean that it doesn't count as religious text any more.Quote:
Originally Posted by 01101101entor
I know but someones perseption of reality is based on relaity, not the other way around, reality is unchanged.Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingJesus
Becuse you belive somthing doesnt mean that thing is real, only your quite deluded...
No it doesnt, it means all powerful...Quote:
Congratulations on completely missing my point. Omnipotency means that you can do anything, no matter how many paradoxes it crosses, no matter how much logic it craps on.
Square is a consept, The name square can be altered, the consept cant. its a priori. You can clame its so, but it can never be so, since the consept is relative to us, and hence are own understandings of the consept are what assign it the word by which it is refered, so god could make it so we call 3 sided shapes sqaures, but he could never make a 3 sided shape meet the consept of a square, he could make people belive it did, but it still would not.Quote:
There's no way to imagine a 3-sided square, like you said, because we'd know it to be a triangle, but omnipotency would allow such a thing to still be a square.
Actaly thats free choise, and its quite easy overcome, as ive shown 3 times now...Quote:
It's beyond understanding, beyond anything that you or I could possibly be taught. Omnipotency therefore is an argument which cannot be overcome.
God wrote 10 commandments, not the bible.Quote:
The Bible is supposedly the word of God, written by prophets who scribed God's message. Whether you believe that or not is irrelevent, the point is that the Bible clearly states that a man "laying" with another man is a sin. I really couldn't care less who agrees with that or not, I personally don't care who you do or where you stick it, but trying to argue that the Bible doesn't say something when it does is really quite pointless.
And it doesnt cleary state that? ainchent hebrew is highly context sencetive most words can be read in many many diffent ways. makeing the entire text highly ambuguios. And that still has nothing to do with homosexualty, thats about haveing sex.. or at least thats how its commonly interpited.
The same part also cleary says your going to hell if you miss your weekly animal sacrivise, or if you fail to stone crimals to death, as well as alot of helpful advice on selling slaves, or your daughter for that matter...
So you support selling children as slaves? o.0 Even though the new testiment contrasdictis this compleaty...Quote:
Yes it does, as I stated above. Also, you keep referring to this point about selling your daughter into slavery, just because something isn't socially acceptable now doesn't mean that it doesn't count as religious text any more.
If you think slavery is accepatble behavior i worry for you...
why have there been loads of posts about god and sins recntly and yes i think it is seen as a sin
God is more or less something that cannot be overcome. Because God is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent he can basically defy anything. He created logic (or more so that logic is a result of his creation) therefore he can defy logic.
Sin is somthing objectionable by a deity, if god dont exist, Sins dont ether "/Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightrose
plus most the anti gay stuff in the bible is umbiguos, out of context and crap "/
Could god make it so you had never existed. Since your existing now thats immposible, since althogh he can make you stop existing, you have existed for this time, so dispite any power its compleaty immposible for it to be so that you had never existed "/ it may be as if you had never existed, but god would know you had by his action meaning the fact could not be changed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgin Mary
Thats rather an irrelevant question,you could equally say 'Why have their been so many Music posts'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightrose
That's a good point, but despite the fact God knowing I existed, he could remove all traces of my existence and I technically wouldn't have existed. I would basically be something in his imagination then, like if I just thought up a non-existent imaginary person, I have them in my mind but it doesn't mean they exist.Quote:
Originally Posted by 01101101entor
But you are a real person =/Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgin Mary
No god knows you existed, and even if he didnt, the fact remains that you still would have existed?Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgin Mary
Then again, theres nothing to say there is a real existance and all that is, is simply not gods imagaintion to start with? if that were so then imagaintion would be what is real so the point remainds, you cannot get around it "/
Yes, and an all-powerful being can do anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by 01101101entor
No, you're still not getting it. You're trying to prove your point using logic and human knowledge, which doesn't cover omnipotency. Concepts, logic, knowledge, laws of science, reality, all of these can be overcome by an omnipotent being. I'm not saying that God exists because of this, simply that if there was an omnipotent deity, there would be nothing that He couldn't do - including the "impossible".Quote:
Originally Posted by 01101101entor
I don't support it, no, but I believe that if one is to follow a religion (which I don't) then one should follow it to the last detail. Every other religion does so, but Judaism and Christianity seem to have slacked rather a lot, scrapping certain parts of their holy scripts and even twisting meanings so that they can do as they please. As a side note, I was always of the opinion that in the Old Testament they were in the habit of selling their children as servants rather than slaves, but nonetheless there are Biblical laws about how one should treat a slave fairly, and slavery in those times was not the same horrific practise that we know it to be (or at least, it wasn't until the Egyptians took hold).Quote:
Originally Posted by 01101101entor
Even paradoxes?Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingJesus
Can he create something more powerful than himself?Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingJesus
And its still not anything
Rationalise it then, You cant, Impossible is impossible even to god "/ human understanding has limits, but the rationlisation comes before that "/Quote:
No, you're still not getting it. You're trying to prove your point using logic and human knowledge, which doesn't cover omnipotency. Concepts, logic, knowledge, laws of science, reality, all of these can be overcome by an omnipotent being. I'm not saying that God exists because of this, simply that if there was an omnipotent deity, there would be nothing that He couldn't do - including the "impossible".
Read the mediation one of descaretes for a nice lenghthy very persises and well construycted prooof that logic holds up even to god.
Even when its not actaly neeeded since got being benevlent would NEVER interonaly dellude us anyway...
Hard to do when the bible contradicts itself, Christanty has both "an eye for an eye" and "turn the other cheek in" it. Which one are people supposed to be following...Quote:
I don't support it, no, but I believe that if one is to follow a religion (which I don't) then one should follow it to the last detail. Every other religion does so, but Judaism and Christianity seem to have slacked rather a lot, scrapping certain parts of their holy scripts and even twisting meanings so that they can do as they please. As a side note, I was always of the opinion that in the Old Testament they were in the habit of selling their children as servants rather than slaves, but nonetheless there are Biblical laws about how one should treat a slave fairly, and slavery in those times was not the same horrific practise that we know it to be (or at least, it wasn't until the Egyptians took hold).
If God created all that there is now, then God created logic and order, therefore I think God should be able to bend the rules of something he created.Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig
Take away logic the consept of god ceases to exist? so god cant exist if he defiys paradox's anyway...Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgin Mary
The logic that applies to us won't apply to him.Quote:
Originally Posted by 01101101entor
Then god isnt omnipitant or omnicient.Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgin Mary
We understand these consepts rationaly, If rationality is said to be false then we dont know god at all, hence we cannot judge if hes all powerful or benevolent or anything? hence god cant do anything or have any attribute since they would have to be known logicaly, without logic god cannot exist "/
That is probably one of the reasons we can't explain God well, we can only explain him using our logic and knowledge, but because he defies both of these we find it hard to explain such a being.Quote:
Originally Posted by 01101101entor
But as god is BENEVOLENT. God WOULD NOT deceave us. Hence logic must be correct. If its not god would be evil. And that also means the diety in question is not god "/Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgin Mary
God doesn't stop us from learning things for ourselves, logic now is much different to what it was about 200 years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by 01101101entor
Yes, even paradoxes, which is what I've been trying to explain for a few pages of this thread now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig
All-powerful. Indicating that such a being has the power to do... oh yes, anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by 01101101entor
As above, dearie. Impossible is not impossible to a being that is omnipotent.Quote:
Originally Posted by 01101101entor
Hence why I wrote "Judaism/Christianity". Jews only follow the Old Testament (or should) and so by their heritage should be placing animals for sacrifice every Saturday, and should have the right (but not obligation) to sell their children into slavery/servanthood. Christians follow the teachings of Jesus in the New Testament, and Jesus brings the "new covenant", which is the purging of all human sins to make way for a more caring world and a benevolent God. I personally view Christianity as a way for non-Jews (gentiles) to work with Jewish law but with less restrictions.Quote:
Originally Posted by 01101101entor
Some people believe god is the answer to questions humans don't know the answer to, a fear of the unknown kinda thing.
Thanks for whoever gave me a good rep, although judging by the comment it was probably supposed to be a bad one :p