Sulake cracking down on VIP

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Originally Posted by Ostinato

Would it be possible to register as a charity?

People will not be paying for VIP features, but will simply be donating towards the charities main goal - to raise money for a specified charity. And if management choose to, these people may just by chance receive features others don't. They can't complain for that surely - as admins, mods etc. have different features from normal users so why not just make those who donate to charity coincidently get something extra.

That way, we could give the donations towards a charity, but in the UK the company is actually allowed to keep a percentage for the upkeep of the company.

The charity could even be interchangable, with users getting to vote each month which charity the donations go to?

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omg steal our idea why don't you! Hahaha but yeah we've got the best discussion going on this, and it's actually quite feasible. I'm more than happy to look into it fully because obviously I have a duty to look after the community and from what I can tell they ain't too happy about this :P

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Originally Posted by jrh2002

Great idea :)

not many will know this but its eitherr 90 or 95% of charity donations can be used as expenses and only 10 or 5% needs to go to the cause :o

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lol yeah that was mentioned, it's pretty nifty just as long as we don't make *actual* profit

LOL JOINT IDEA.

I'm thinkign along the lines of introducing like a 'Charity Department' with a Charity Manager. And we will nto actually be breaking any rules because we are simply asking our forum users to donate towards the charity that we as a company support (just like ASDA and big retailers support charities and ask you to donate instore etc.)

And then those who donate, will become part of the charity group that will be dedicated to promoting the charity etc. and it just so happens that they get the same vip features as they would have.

They can't penalise us for having 'staff'. It is the same principle as nvrspk having a green name, smods havign a red etc. - we just choose that our charity workers have the colour of their choice.

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Originally Posted by FlyingJesus

omg steal our idea why don't you! Hahaha but yeah we've got the best discussion going on this, and it's actually quite feasible. I'm more than happy to look into it fully because obviously I have a duty to look after the community and from what I can tell they ain't too happy about this :P

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And as well as doing the donation service, we should offer other alternatives to make money such as runnign sponsors or competitions etc. to prove we are actually dedicated to the charity as long as we actually give them a set percentage each year.

If you dont fight this please delete my account please :) I will be ashamed to be and have been part of something with no heart left in it :( this is why i mention habbox losing its way over the last year or so :( properclone and jack etc would have fought this tooth and nail and sierk would have took this as far as possible.

Come on NVR kick some arse and dont roll over for these idiots.

Do habbo think some sites are to powerful? they realise the small ones run for a few pounds per month and the big ones cost 100s so will most likely die out :( FIGHTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT if you dont the site will collapse.

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Originally Posted by jrh2002

If you dont fight this please delete my account please :) I will be ashamed to be and have been part of something with no heart left in it :( this is why i mention habbox losing its way over the last year or so :( properclone and jack etc would have fought this tooth and nail and sierk would have took this as far as possible.

Come on NVR kick some arse and dont roll over for these idiots.

Do habbo think some sites are to powerful? they realise the small ones run for a few pounds per month and the big ones cost 100s so will most likely die out :( FIGHTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT if you dont the site will collapse.

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I will fight!

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Originally Posted by jrh2002

If you dont fight this please delete my account please :) I will be ashamed to be and have been part of something with no heart left in it :( this is why i mention habbox losing its way over the last year or so :( properclone and jack etc would have fought this tooth and nail and sierk would have took this as far as possible.

Come on NVR kick some arse and dont roll over for these idiots.

Do habbo think some sites are to powerful? they realise the small ones run for a few pounds per month and the big ones cost 100s so will most likely die out :( FIGHTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT if you dont the site will collapse.

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I agree. There is definitely a way around this, we just need to get together and think it through.

Continuing with the charity idea, it is no different to MissAlice donating her furniture which she has paid for, for competitions etc. and in return she gets a wee mention on the homepage or whatever.

Technically we are just accepting donations on behalf of the charity which is affiliated with us and we wil be passing on to them and using to turn it into greater for the charities benefit. It will then be presumed that those who donate generally have an interest in the charity overall and so will be put in a charity usergroup which is created to signify those dedicated to supporting the charity and therefore those who you will perhaps see around promoting it etc.

This is no different to nvr having a green name, or smods a red one - it is the same principle completely that we have the right to choose which colour our usergroups have - and it just so happens that those who choose to donate to the charity are part of the group containign previous vip features.

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Originally Posted by Ostinato

I'm thinkign along the lines of introducing like a 'Charity Department' with a Charity Manager. And we will nto actually be breaking any rules because we are simply asking our forum users to donate towards the charity that we as a company support (just like ASDA and big retailers support charities and ask you to donate instore etc.)

And then those who donate, will become part of the charity group that will be dedicated to promoting the charity etc. and it just so happens that they get the same vip features as they would have.

And as well as doing the donation service, we should offer other alternatives to make money such as runnign sponsors or competitions etc. to prove we are actually dedicated to the charity as long as we actually give them a set percentage each year.

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Charities are a bit more complicated than "here you go, have some money", hence charity donations for VIP would still look like any donation/sale method. What would be different is if we were "sponsored" by our chosen beneficiaries to get it, because then the reward is from them and not the site. It would be like getting one of the pin badges for giving a quid to Cancer Research init. I don't think we need a new department for it really seeing as how we already have one that doesn't have a lot to do atm *waves and jumps and screams* but yeah I think getting more into charity is a good idea even if we don't save VIP by doing it.

That said, I still think we can get around the VIP business without resorting to anything else, but I'm into the idea of charity now because of our discussions haha

Imagine Sulake trying to close or impose sanctions on a site that is fully supporting Child Line or similar? all profits go to the charity and a greedy corporate company is trying to close them down :o
Sulakes name would be so damaged in the press :)

This is a great idea and i would do it and then see the morals of sulake :)

Yeh well just restructure the current community department or whatever to make it more focussed towards the charity aspect, as if this went ahead it would be a very core focus of the website that would need to be totally integrated throughout.

I agree, the idea of getting a charity to sponsor or support us would be very benefical and would encourage and support it even more.

I donno if we would get away with the idea of giving them a sort of badge thing for donating, as that's kinda similair to vip maybe?

LOL yeh I'm enjoying the discussion haha

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Originally Posted by FlyingJesus

Charities are a bit more complicated than "here you go, have some money", hence charity donations for VIP would still look like any donation/sale method. What would be different is if we were "sponsored" by our chosen beneficiaries to get it, because then the reward is from them and not the site. It would be like getting one of the pin badges for giving a quid to Cancer Research init. I don't think we need a new department for it really seeing as how we already have one that doesn't have a lot to do atm *waves and jumps and screams* but yeah I think getting more into charity is a good idea even if we don't save VIP by doing it.

That said, I still think we can get around the VIP business without resorting to anything else, but I'm into the idea of charity now because of our discussions haha

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Precisely, I'd propose using as much of the money to keep the servers up etc as is needed (simple maintenance costs) and then have the rest go off for charitable uses. We'd be strictly non-profit and frankly if Sulake let us do it they'd even get a good name from us probably

And I didn't mean giving them a badge lol, I meant that's the equivalent of getting VIP for a donation

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Originally Posted by FlyingJesus

Precisely, I'd propose using as much of the money to keep the servers up etc as is needed (simple maintenance costs) and then have the rest go off for charitable uses. We'd be strictly non-profit and frankly if Sulake let us do it they'd even get a good name from us probably

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Exactly, we just take what we need to keep the site running and no more. The rest going to charity. TBH without this whole vip fiasco, I think thats a good idea in general as the money is actual going to something rellevant and meaningful.

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Originally Posted by jrh2002

Imagine Sulake trying to close or impose sanctions on a site that is fully supporting Child Line or similar? all profits go to the charity and a greedy corporate company is trying to close them down :o
Sulakes name would be so damaged in the press :)

This is a great idea and i would do it and then see the morals of sulake :)

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Originally Posted by jrh2002

Imagine Sulake trying to close or impose sanctions on a site that is fully supporting Child Line or similar? all profits go to the charity and a greedy corporate company is trying to close them down :o
Sulakes name would be so damaged in the press :)

This is a great idea and i would do it and then see the morals of sulake :)

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Exactly, if they challenged us upon it, we can easily confront them upon their element of corporate social responsibility and if it came to it, with the huge community base on here, together we could publicly humiliate their reputation. I am pretty confident if a good few hundred of us got in touch with a couple of news papers, technology websites etc. and all of us spoke about how terrible it is they make us boycot a charity for their own corporate greed - they would backtrack pretty quickly.

Can anybody help me to write a powerful email im adding it to my petition site and want it in a form so users can add their habbo names and hit submit if they believe in the cause this will then send the letter to sulake.

I think this is stupid too.

But rules are rules.

I have been told if the Fansite does not remove the VIP prem the site can be shut down due to..
1. Having Habbo in the domain
2. Using Habbo images on the site

I heard about this email that was going to be send out about a month ago.

All the fansites should charge for vip, then habbo would have to remove the rule from the fansite way. They put it there because they realised that Habbo's were spending money to fansites based on Habbo it self and because Sulake can't get a cut of it, they just ban it full stop (stupid).

The fansites are one of the main advertisement for Habbo with out the fansites I don't think Habbo would be where it is now.

I had made a group about a month ago about it...

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Originally Posted by dtmm

I think this is stupid too.

But rules are rules.

I have been told if the Fansite does not remove the VIP prem the site can be shut down due to..
1. Having Habbo in the domain
2. Using Habbo images on the site

I heard about this email that was going to be send out about a month ago.

All the fansites should charge for vip, then habbo would have to remove the rule from the fansite way. They put it there because they realised that Habbo's were spending money to fansites based on Habbo it self and because Sulake can't get a cut of it, they just ban it full stop (stupid).

The fansites are one of the main advertisement for Habbo with out the fansites I don't think Habbo would be where it is now.

I had made a group about a month ago about it...

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if you all club together then habbo will have fun sueing you all lol i would ignore them :)

As for the charity idea i think habbox with its previous charity donations has proof its non profit making and dropping an email about this to the previous charities to get their response would be a good start.

I agree. I think this seriosuly needs to be considered by sierk and nvr - and if they decide to run with it get going asap and contact previous charities etc. like said

I must go now unfortunately, but I'll come on and check how it's developed tomorrow hehe

night!

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Originally Posted by jrh2002

if you all club together then habbo will have fun sueing you all lol i would ignore them :)

As for the charity idea i think habbox with its previous charity donations has proof its non profit making and dropping an email about this to the previous charities to get their response would be a good start.

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Originally Posted by jrh2002

if you all club together then habbo will have fun sueing you all lol i would ignore them :)

As for the charity idea i think habbox with its previous charity donations has proof its non profit making and dropping an email about this to the previous charities to get their response would be a good start.

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Well, that would go down well in the papers. :eusa_danc

*Virtual world sues users over premium services*

It's not as if the owners are wanting to make money...

I love the idea of sponsoring a charity, and the idea that kids supporting kids is even more appealing. ChildLine or similar would be awesome. Perhaps members that give could easily be known as sponsors ;)

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Originally Posted by MissAlice

I love the idea of sponsoring a charity, and the idea that kids supporting kids is even more appealing. ChildLine or similar would be awesome. Perhaps members that give could be easily known as sponsors ;)

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Exactly my luv! ;P

My fansite was told we were aloud to have VIP, as long as it was accepted as a donation towards the site. Thats what the Hotel Manager told us atleast.

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Originally Posted by DJ::Beatz

My fansite was told we were aloud to have VIP, as long as it was accepted as a donation towards the site. Thats what the Hotel Manager told us atleast.

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when was this? is your site official? what hotel is it for? no gay emails recieved from sulake yet?

:)

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Originally Posted by Ostinato

Exactly my luv! ;P

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You go to bed!

Yeah I'm gonna get in contact with Nigel and put forward the idea of charity, perhaps not to save VIP but it's something I'd like to do anyway really, and it seems to have good support already based on this thread/that convo

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Originally Posted by jrh2002

no gay emails

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LMAO :')

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Originally Posted by FlyingJesus

You go to bed!

Yeah I'm gonna get in contact with Nigel and put forward the idea of charity, perhaps not to save VIP but it's something I'd like to do anyway really, and it seems to have good support already based on this thread/that convo

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Whos Nigel?

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Originally Posted by jrh2002

Whos Nigel?

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nvrspk4!!!11

The charity idea is quite a good'un I must admit. It's nice to do regardless of the VIP situation :D

Simple way round this.... Change the V.I.P to 'Donated' Then its not really vip :)

^i'm with digital

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Originally Posted by Sammeth.

nvrspk4!!!11

The charity idea is quite a good'un I must admit. It's nice to do regardless of the VIP situation :D

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Hard work when ppl start using first names instead of habbo names lol

I think its a great idea and a way forward :) i would line up a charity to start all this from just before vip needs stopping :) then on that date resign from the official list out of protest and then do good for the children og britain or the world :)

Dont back down Mr Nigel we need you :eusa_danc

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Originally Posted by nvrspk4

Yes, Habbox has been ordered to remove its VIP services.

FJ it doesn't really work like that, RuneScape is alowed to shut down sites as the idea is someone is making money as a result of using their images. Yes, Habbox is not for profit, but it makes revenues through VIP donations. Therefore, Habbo has the right to take us down, even if we really haven't done anything wrong. If we post a message about L_Ws mother, they can yank our right to use their images and content, so that's what they'll do if we run a competition.

We were going to announce this seperately but I guess cat's out of the bag. VIP will be leaving end of November however we will continue to honor any VIP payments through their end, so if you really wanted you could buy VIP for two years and have it.

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Right before the Christmas charity thing too:(.

Can't VIP be given away for free since it can't be sold anymore?

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Originally Posted by HotelUser

Right before the Christmas charity thing too:(.

Can't VIP be given away for free since it can't be sold anymore?

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The site will collapse or have to downgrade servers to continue to keep going in which case the lack of reliability will drive people away so expect it all to fall apart without a fight.

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Originally Posted by Ostinato

Would it be possible to register as a charity?

People will not be paying for VIP features, but will simply be donating towards the charities main goal - to raise money for a specified charity. And if management choose to, these people may just by chance receive features others don't. They can't complain for that surely - as admins, mods etc. have different features from normal users so why not just make those who donate to charity coincidently get something extra.

That way, we could give the donations towards a charity, but in the UK the company is actually allowed to keep a percentage for the upkeep of the company.

The charity could even be interchangable, with users getting to vote each month which charity the donations go to?

Another quick thought of a loop hole... People who decide to 'donate' for the upkeep of the website happen to become 'Staff'.
We could invent a new role that includes all the features of vip, but maybe some element of optional 'work' that could be done and it could just be a coincidence that those who donate generally appear to be the main people with this 'job'. They can't criticise us for hiring staff with extra features than others to run the site.

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Or make them "Respected Members" or "Habbox Helpers"
Habbo won't know who donated.

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Originally Posted by jrh2002

The site will collapse or have to downgrade servers to continue to keep going in which case the lack of reliability will drive people away so expect it all to fall apart without a fight.

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More advertisements I suppose:P.

http://habbopetition.com Hoping to get a powerful email in there for visitors just to click submit and it will be sent to sulake.

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Originally Posted by Yonder454

http://habbopetition.com Hoping to get a powerful email in there for visitors just to click submit and it will be sent to sulake.

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The idea is genuine, though can't Sulake revoke Habbox's privileges to all Habbo images and text if we rebel?

This is nothing to do with Habbo this is me has no affilate with Habbox or any other fansite. Im just driving to start a movement i want a powerful email anyone think they can write one i might contact a article write.

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Originally Posted by jrh2002

Hard work when ppl start using first names instead of habbo names lol

I think its a great idea and a way forward :) i would line up a charity to start all this from just before vip needs stopping :) then on that date resign from the official list out of protest and then do good for the children og britain or the world :)

Dont back down Mr Nigel we need you :eusa_danc

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I'm fairly sure that's not his real name lol, I just pick random names that start with N to call him and Nigel seems to be the most used :D

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Originally Posted by Yonder454

http://habbopetition.com Hoping to get a powerful email in there for visitors just to click submit and it will be sent to sulake.

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Your heart's in the right place mate but I don't see it helping, rather it would be annoying to them and be a hindrance - a load of kids sending the same angry email is not the same as reasoning with them or working with/around them, and petitions really aren't known for their successes, especially against corporate giants.

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Originally Posted by FlyingJesus

I'm fairly sure that's not his real name lol, I just pick random names that start with N to call him and Nigel seems to be the most used :D

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He probably has an Indian name. I dunno
Ah well, hope habbox work a way around this.

Well anything is better than nothing at the moment they are just walking all over us. It wont be an angry email and powerful email, on trying to come to some sort of way to solve this issue.

My name isn't Nigel :P But you are free to call me one of the many names I've been given, Norman, Nathan, Nigel, Ned, Speedy, Grapefruit, Zigzagoon, the list goes on.

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Originally Posted by GommeInc

Have you replied to them, trying to reason with them with how utterly stupid this move is? :P

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Yes, several times. Then they stopped replying to my emails and gave sierk the letter.

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Originally Posted by FlyingJesus

We aren't making profit as a result of their images though, it would be different if you got a free picture of a Habbo with your VIP but it's completely different and non-related.

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No but we offer a service and people buy VIP to gain privileges on that service and Habbo images are a part of that service.

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Hence having the "competition" on another domain - VIP manager could easily own it and still not have it as an official part of the site, and there would seriously be no legal action they could bring against us. Also as you mentioned, we are non-profit, so we aren't actually making any business off their name.

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They still give money for special privileges which is explicitly forbidden.

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Originally Posted by jrh2002

Its a very sad day if you dont FIGHT this bullying bunch of scum bags.
I really thought Sierk would relish getting stuck into them over this. I have always found Sierk a very strong character who has always fought for whats right :(
Habbox has got a great fanbase now who would stop with them whatever :o get in touch with some other games to see if they would have a problem with VIP and promote their site? imagine all the lost revenue to habbo then and then change from being habbo related and then just minor habbo news etc.

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It is ridiculous, and of course we've asked them to change the rule. However our requests have been rebuked and we've been told to make the money via ads (which is insane) but we will reply, however we've been given a deadline of December 1st and we will stick to that simply because I don't want services to be interrupted if we get shut down. We are going to ask them if they will allow us to do the Charity benefit but that too is still up in the air.

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@ NVR
Has any explanation been offered from habbo?

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They sent us a letter if that's what you mean, but offered no rationale for the decision.

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Originally Posted by Ostinato

Would it be possible to register as a charity?

People will not be paying for VIP features, but will simply be donating towards the charities main goal - to raise money for a specified charity. And if management choose to, these people may just by chance receive features others don't. They can't complain for that surely - as admins, mods etc. have different features from normal users so why not just make those who donate to charity coincidently get something extra.

That way, we could give the donations towards a charity, but in the UK the company is actually allowed to keep a percentage for the upkeep of the company.

The charity could even be interchangable, with users getting to vote each month which charity the donations go to?

Another quick thought of a loop hole... People who decide to 'donate' for the upkeep of the website happen to become 'Staff'.
We could invent a new role that includes all the features of vip, but maybe some element of optional 'work' that could be done and it could just be a coincidence that those who donate generally appear to be the main people with this 'job'. They can't criticise us for hiring staff with extra features than others to run the site.

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I love the idea but I don't think it will work.

Here's an excerpt from the email:

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This rule is not a condition for being an official fansite, but a condition for all sites who wish to use the name 'Habbo' or 'Habbo Hotel' in domain names or make use of any graphics, code or written content created by Sulake.

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This includes not linking to any site that does not follow the fansite way, whether this is a scam site or premium VIP site or porn site. If you do you are breaking the Fansite way and we will take action in the usual manner (although not run a cease and desist/ removal immediately), but the site charging a premium will be removed immediately. We recognise that popular fansites require money for hosting and other services which is why you ARE allowed to put donation buttons and adverts on your site. In the case of donation buttons, you may not offer a gift or service in return for donating, but you can publish the names of donators anywhere on your site as a 'thank you'.

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Those knock down some of the suggestions.

What would be good was if a serious media source got a hold of this :P We'll email Sulake and Habbo but there's not much we can do past that, in the meantime our main objective will be continuing services without interruption.

Sluke are stupid :| habbox will just die without funding... How do they have any rights to close the website? It's not like V.I.P is uncommon in forums, the sole purpose of V.I.P is help with the funding of the website and in return the people who 'donated' get access to a few extra forums and get a different coloured user name and a few extra things then normal members. What effect does this have on Sluke? NONE except they must think that people will give them more money if they don't donate to forums?

Maybe someone should give them a ring and make a complainant? Unless anyone can think of a way round this?

For the record, Habbox is not closing in the near future, we have funds for the short term, and we are working on alternate plans for the long term if we don't get to reinstate VIP.

What about if habbox sell something? Such as rep? and people who but certain amouts will be given a rank (v.i.p with a different name) in return? It's not donating and its not v.i.p lol dnt see why it wouldn't work