If only there was a simple solution that required minimal writing ability while gleaning maximum benefits and bringing visiting readers into the community
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If only there was a simple solution that required minimal writing ability while gleaning maximum benefits and bringing visiting readers into the community
Kardan's proofreading:
Phone Verification article.
What do you have to do to? (Doesn't make sense with this word).
So in order for you to do this new Verification (No capital letter needed).
and you must enter that code in the dialogue on screen. (Wrong word used? You don't enter the code into dialogue...)
Guest Article - The Life of Plastic Furniture.
you'll receive a nice little Forum Bade (Badge.)
The article is a really well composed in my eyes (Doesn't make sense, remove a.)
Intersocial has outdone themselves in creating a well-written and interest capturing Article! (Doesn't make sense, replace with interesting.)
They're just the errors on the front page, I'm sure there's more - and I didn't even read Intersocial's article to check there. This took me literally 5 minutes to do, so why isn't it being done? It's so simple.
Actually, I think that one was an attempt to make the whole thing sound fancier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kardan
Does it make sense? It doesn't sound right at all to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chippiewill
It makes sense, but it's still sloppy writing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kardan
Yeah it's says that you capture the reader's interest, although I had to read it a few times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kardan
Ah okay, wasn't reading it that way at all, would be better to say 'in creating a well-written article that really captures your interest' I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Samanfa
I apologise if I'm not working fast enough for you, Kardan. I actually made some changes to the verification article earlier, so those you picked out should be gone. I'll make my way through the other ones when I have the time, as I am entitled to my own free time.
The reason you see errors on the front page is because articles are not checked by me in their writing until they are published. This is something that can be changed, but I feel could lead to a backlog of articles due to the communication channels needed being relatively slow.
I also understand the errors in the Plasto article are actually something I wasn't given. Guest articles are submitted for my overview before publishing (as they aren't straight from writer to site) and that introduction was written by Rhyss and I wasn't involved!
And some of the problems you've had with 'poor quality' writing is an aspect that I said earlier is something I'm not prepared to look at. If you're suggesting journalistic training for the writers, then out with it! ;)
Isn't the whole point of a proofreader that these things get checked before publishing :S otherwise it's (as it has been) too late and things look sloppy
Has anyone involved in running this ever actually managed anything before
Has formatting gone down hill- it all used to be written in a great handbook. Yes, whilst it may not be your job to change style, it is your job to proof read, and clearly from what we have all discussed today, have not been. Now that's the issue. Another point is, how can one even tackle this if the manager themselves is the one making the errors. I'd love to be an optimist, but for the casual observer, it's just bringing the professionalism of Habbox down.Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyLemurs
I think people are sticking the knife in a bit too much here, sure there's always criticisms to be charged and improvements to be made from them but at the same time most of the people I see really sticking the knife in are those who are 20 and above and who are doing degrees in university.
This is a Habbo Hotel fansite remember. I'm sure the 15, 16 or 17 year old me could easily be savaged by the 21 year old me.
If a department doesn't get feedback then how does it improve?Quote:
Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-
sorry why aren't articles proofread before being published, nobody is going to go back 10 articles to read the ones that have just been around to being altered.
more proofreaders needed i think
They are not proofread because our current system does not encourage it. I'm able to keep up with THIS level of work, but if we plan to have more writers I would prefer someone else to help me!
And (sorry for double post) I've tried to keep up with the backlog I had after going on holiday, which I have now managed to do. All of the articles on the front page (and the last 5 or so before that) have all definitely been done!
Generally articles aren't proofread first because they can be time sensitive, and a proofreader is more likely to do a bull at once, so instead of having steady publications, we could have like 4 at the same time. But as I've already said at least once in this thread, we're discussing changing this policy.
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I think something like 80%+ of members are 18+ so it's likely that most of the department aren't 15/16/17.Quote:
Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-
I don't think there should be a need for the proof reader to proof read articles before they're going published, because surely there shouldn't be many mistakes if the staff proof read their own articles before/just after publishing them? I'd assume that they'd do that anyway.
Not all writers have a perfect grasp of spelling and grammar, neither can we expect it to be up to standard. Hell, I work for a newspaper and even those professional reporters aren't as good as you'd expect, that's why they go through subbing & proofing first. I don't see why we should be any different - in my personal opinion articles should be proofed before, with the exception of breaking news / time sensitive. And all other articles should be proofed within 24 hours!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr-Trainor
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Yeah that's fair enough - I think it's fine having them published before being proof read anyway. Is there only one proof reader at the moment?Quote:
Originally Posted by lawrawrrr
Yes - mainly because I thought there weren't enough staff for more, but it is a trial and error process when it comes to the new dept but after reading what you guys have been saying I am putting these together in my monthly review for Rhyss :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr-Trainor
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There are still quite a few errors though...Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyLemurs
Firstly, the use of wrong font on IRhyss' article, that I pointed out a few posts ago. Look at one paragraph from that particular article for example. I will use red to point out the most blatant mistakes that I would have expected to have been dealt with right now.
Also, seriously, do we really need to ellipses that often? Obviously, I can go more into grammar, but I'm not harsh and simply want to demonstrate that simple errors like this are actually pretty bad and reflects poorly, particularly when both members of the team who can edit don't seem to think it's a problem. The whole paragraph could actually be cut big time, at the moment it is way too wordy.Quote:
Here at the Articles Department we don't only publish articles that have been written by our staff... Oh no! we also allow you (the community) to submit your articles as a one off for us to read! If we enjoy them enough, we'll post them on the website and you'll receive a nice little Forum Bade and some VIP... How nice are we? To submit a guest article, all you have to do is PM lRhyss on HabboxForum with your piece. If we enjoy reading your work, we'll make necessary changes and then hit you up with a spot of Habbox.com article posted goodness (really doesn't sense here, but minor)! So simple!
This is just one paragraph of one article to demonstrate what I mean, I'm sure I can find way more. Generally, in my view it was edited to an extremely poor standard, and I keep hitting on this because no one is ever going to move forward in this news/articles department if you don't get the most simple elements of your own house in order. How is anyone meant to move forward if the manager makes copious amounts of mistakes in an article and then the editor says it's OK :S?
I maintain that things like ellipses keep the character of the article, and I'm very much against stripping away too much of that character like I used to when I was news staff before. The errors in Rhyss' writing also make me sad, because he should be able to write too :(
I'm currently on my iPhone if you are seeing this message. Pretend like you care xx
Even if Rhyss makes an error here or there, then surely you should be able to pick up on it when you're proof reading. However, I'm sure he can spell and grammar check his introduction on articles to make you happy.Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyLemurs
What's funny is that I even posted some of those errors in this thread 3 days ago, and still nobody has sorted them :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Grig
The articles department is so small and there are people sat here proofing every post. Lol. The thing about articles (as opposed to news) is that each individual has their own writing style and everybody uses different syntax, different grammar, and different words.
Generally everybody writing articles should be proofing them themselves first to iron out small mistakes and then forwarding them to somebody whose job it is to edit the articles to a good standard and THEN post them on the main site. It can be an efficient method if there are the staff for it but currently there's one proof reader who also has commitments elsewhere.
I know this is said a lot but it's unbelievably harsh on these people - regardless of their age - who are sacrificing their time and trying to provide content for everybody to enjoy, for a few people to then comb through their articles and pick out every flaw as though marking a school paper. Not everything has to be of national newspaper standard, some things should be allowed to slide as these people hone their skill through experience. 2 ellipses in 1 paragraph is too many... Really grig? Come man, I know that you can write articles to a high standard because I've seen it from you in the past but... Really? Are you nitpicking THAT MUCH?
~~from phone
I think there's a difference between typos/grammar and style of writing. Whilst we can't expect the style of writing to be newspaper standard, you do expect typos and other errors to be picked up on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jellyfish
yeah which is why the writers themselves should be prepared to read over their posts at least a couple times before posting. I don't have a personal proofreader for posts n habbox, so I take the time to read over (long) posts before submitting them so they at least make sense. Articles staff should do the same and not rely so heavily on proofreading. AT THE VERY LEAST they should be writing it in a program that offers autocorrection software...Quote:
Originally Posted by Kardan
The problem though is not the pointing out of typos, it's that people are picking apart articles and discouraging people from posting more because of such a horrendous reception.
Tbf I know people are saying not to be harsh, but when you can't even spell the name of someone who has spoken to you several times before correctly, nor can you learn to capitalise the start of a sentence... then there is an issue with 'proofreading'.
I agree with Kyle, I think when you accept a manager position, you get certain advantages and disadvantages. One of the disadvantages is that you will be under much closer scrutiny and a lot of it will be public. Ideally, these things will be discussed in a general context but there'll still be an expectation that the manager will deliver. Regular staff members have not accepted that responsibility so shouldn't have to have their work publically dissected.
Not sure that applies here though, it's largely focused on Rhys' article/introduction and talking more generally about the flaws in the system. I don't believe that staff should write a certain style unless we want to take a concept that already doesn't attract a lot of people's attention and make it even more boring. Part of this discussion seems to stem from a snobbish attitude to writing as if those peasants beneath you could ever expect to match your stylistic creations.
This is exactly my point. So in this case I am supposed to be nice and say a few stupid errors, despite them being pointed out specifically by numerous individuals were still there. How else is one supposed to point these things out? The point wasn't stylistic, heck it wasn't even grammatical, it was a bunch of foolish errors that were still there and I picked one paragraph; I could find another by someone else at the rate this is going. I picked on the manager, because it's kind of unacceptable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Intersocial
It's a huge shame too, because your article was nicely written Hayden and it's these kinds of things news would need more of :P!