Brown portrays UKIP, BNP and the Conservatives as xenophobes on immigration

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

The only parties that I know of which do not have policies based on race/gender/sexuality and UKIP and possibly the Green Party. The Labour Party, Liberal Democrats, Conservatives and the British National Party all have policies/rules based on one of the above and or numerous of the above. It is hard when its turned around to see through all the propaganda that (possibly) you've been fed by the main parties that you arent all that clean yourselves when it comes to discrimination. As for the holocaust I dont agree with Griffin (who has now changed his view anyway) but I am sorry, we live in a democracy and it is anybodys right to deny a historical event.

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But it's okay for you to believe all the 'propaganda' as I see it from UKIP and not even have a good word about the main parties? And it not ourselves that need to be clean? When do other members address you in a personal way like that? Members say UKIP or whatever party it is they don't say 'you' , they remain objective in their terms. Otherwise imo it looks like a personal attack on the member which I am sure you don't mean as we all have a right to our opinons - that is free speech and democracy. You are correct that being a holocaust denier is not against the law in this country and if he has really changed his views well that is to be applauded.

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

But it's okay for you to believe all the 'propaganda' as I see it from UKIP and not even have a good word about the main parties? And it not ourselves that need to be clean? When do other members address you in a personal way like that? Members say UKIP or whatever party it is they don't say 'you' , they remain objective in their terms. Otherwise imo it looks like a personal attack on the member which I am sure you don't mean as we all have a right to our opinons - that is free speech and democracy. You are correct that being a holocaust denier is not against the law in this country and if he has really changed his views well that is to be applauded.

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I did support one of the main parties until only a year ago when I switched fully to UKIP as I felt it no longer represented Conservatism. The Labour Party, Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats have all backtracked and lied to us over Europe so why on earth would I fool myself into believing a word they say?

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

I did support one of the main parties until only a year ago when I switched fully to UKIP as I felt it no longer represented Conservatism. The Labour Party, Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats have all backtracked and lied to us over Europe so why on earth would I fool myself into believing a word they say?

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I don't think you got the point of the post, Dan.

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

I don't think you got the point of the post, Dan.

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I use 'you' in my replies because I am replying to you and/or your party and its policies, therefore the usage of the word 'you' is relevant in a debate. You yourself support the idea of candidate shortlists by the main parties based on aspects of a person such as the race/gender and therefore if I was debating with yourself on that issue, I would address you as 'you' as I am debating against your points of the discussion.

Back on topic, given the lies and backtracks that the three main major parties have been involved in in recent years, why on earth should I trust a word they say? - I dont have to support a party, and if UKIP ever go that way as the Conservatives did then I would not be in support of them either, i'm not obliged to support a political party.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

I use 'you' in my replies because I am replying to you and/or your party and its policies, therefore the usage of the word 'you' is relevant in a debate. You yourself support the idea of candidate shortlists by the main parties based on aspects of a person such as the race/gender and therefore if I was debating with yourself on that issue, I would address you as 'you' as I am debating against your points of the discussion.

Back on topic, given the lies and backtracks that the three main major parties have been involved in in recent years, why on earth should I trust a word they say? - I dont have to support a party, and if UKIP ever go that way as the Conservatives did then I would not be in support of them either, i'm not obliged to support a political party.

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Yes and it's not just me you do it too - its quite a few members. We are not the parties and this isn't the House of Commons. It would be much more pleasant if the this term wasn't used as it does seem quite personal as opposed to others who do not. :P

Well imo the labour party did not do too bad until the global recession. I think this probably because they more closely represent my core beliefs. I have had a look at the UKIP manifesto some nice parts but none are costed. Some I don't agree with. None of them are perfect - everyone goes for the one who suits them the best. That's freedom and democracy.

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

Well imo the labour party did not do too bad until the global recession. I think this probably because they more closely represent my core beliefs. I have had a look at the UKIP manifesto some nice parts but none are costed. Some I don't agree with. None of them are perfect - everyone goes for the one who suits them the best. That's freedom and democracy.

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Yes by all means its freedom and democracy but half of the people who vote choose a party and dont actually know what they stand for or what their policys are. I know people who for example vote for labour simply because they like the colour red more than blue! which is completely ludicrous.

Dan, i really dont know how you can say you support UKIP because the three main partys have been involved in "lies and backtracks" when UKIP doesnt exactly have a clean slate does it? so going by your example, there is no one you could vote for. Whilst you are free to support UKIP just as I am Conservatives I simply feel that they are a one policy party and whilst they may have other policys, the main focus of their previous election campaigns has largely being the EU and as a result has left many people thinking (including myself) that it is all they would do if elected.

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Originally Posted by jam666

Yes by all means its freedom and democracy but half of the people who vote choose a party and dont actually know what they stand for or what their policys are. I know people who for example vote for labour simply because they like the colour red more than blue! which is completely ludicrous.

Dan, i really dont know how you can say you support UKIP because the three main partys have been involved in "lies and backtracks" when UKIP doesnt exactly have a clean slate does it? so going by your example, there is no one you could vote for. Whilst you are free to support UKIP just as I am Conservatives I simply feel that they are a one policy party and whilst they may have other policys, the main focus of their previous election campaigns has largely being the EU and as a result has left many people thinking (including myself) that it is all they would do if elected.

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UKIP does have a clean slate i'm afraid, and if it did not have a clean slate then I would simply not support them. I am not bound to having to support a certain party for governement. All the people ever involved in fraud within UKIP were thrown out immediately which is unlike the main parties and that is a fact (check it up if you wish, its all on the internet with the scandals involvinh Tom Wise and so on). As a conservative and I am myself, the very things you and myself stand for are no longer in the Conservative Party, they are in UKIP. Do not take it from me, take it from the Thatcherites who left the Tories; Lord Tebbit, Lord Pearson, Lord Monckton and various other Tory figures because you have lost your way as a party.

As for policy, well i'm afraid its just like if David Cameron puts the economy at the head of his campaign. The big issues this election are expected to be the economy and immigration. Now what the main parties are not telling you is that both of these sectors are impossible to rectify while we are members of the European Union. The EU makes over 75% of British legislation while the other 25% (or less) is made by the elected British parliament which has to legislate within the confines of EU rules and directives. You are kidding yourself if you say otherwise, even if the second coming of Mrs Thatcher was elected as Conservative Party leader and refused to leave the European Union, it would make little difference as the EU is making the laws, not the British PM. You also have to remember that it was the European issue that finished Mrs Thatchers premiership because near the end she started turning on Europe and theres no doubt in my mind that if she was British PM now, we would not be in the European Union. (check her Bruges Group connections & UKIP connections).

"We are not electing a Government - we are choosing managers to run the UK on behalf of the EU." - Lord Pearson

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Originally Posted by jam666

Yes by all means its freedom and democracy but half of the people who vote choose a party and dont actually know what they stand for or what their policys are. I know people who for example vote for labour simply because they like the colour red more than blue! which is completely ludicrous.

Dan, i really dont know how you can say you support UKIP because the three main partys have been involved in "lies and backtracks" when UKIP doesnt exactly have a clean slate does it? so going by your example, there is no one you could vote for. Whilst you are free to support UKIP just as I am Conservatives I simply feel that they are a one policy party and whilst they may have other policys, the main focus of their previous election campaigns has largely being the EU and as a result has left many people thinking (including myself) that it is all they would do if elected.

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Well I think the part in bold is a bit of an exageration but I agree that people just read the papers, believe what they say and vote from that as opposed to actually doing some reasearch on the manifestos.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

UKIP does have a clean slate i'm afraid, and if it did not have a clean slate then I would simply not support them

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Hardly
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle1434608.ece
http://ukipwatch.org/2005/01/ukip-scandal.html
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle7086827.ece

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

take it from the Thatcherites who left the Tories; Lord Tebbit

The big issues this election are expected to be the economy and immigration.

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Tebbit recently said that the only party that seemed to understand how tax works was the Liberal Democrats.

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Originally Posted by FlyDuo

Hardly
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle1434608.ece
http://ukipwatch.org/2005/01/ukip-scandal.html
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle7086827.ece


Tebbit recently said that the only party that seemed to understand how tax works was the Liberal Democrats.

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It is quite amazing really, every single one of those scandals were sorted and the party took direct action straight away. Tom Wise was finished off instantly and ended up in prison, and as Nigel Farage said; good. I have not got to support a party and if the party never took any action then I simply would not support them, I turned my back on the Tories and I can just as easily turn it once again on UKIP. As for the donations party (which we addressed on this forum anyway), they did not do anything immoral or against the law so what exactly is your point?

What I would like to know is why Nick Clegg claims on his expenses for food? - we all have to eat.