Tuition Fees: Poorest students will get up to two years FREE tuition!

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Originally Posted by R0BB13G

You didn't answer my question...

The system is broken. Although I fully admit this is not the best solution its better than it is and until you can tell me how the current system is fair I will stand by the government on these reforms.

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Everyone is throwing the word 'loans' around and so on and so forth. That people like me can live with that much debt to fall into a job and then pay it off in increments. They're the lucky ones. We have a terrible job market for the moment and early predictions mean it'll only get worse. This means that the world is changing at such a pace where people cannot live with debt, not just financially but psychologically; to have that burden on your back crushes people in many ways. Confidence is the most important resource of the 21st century next to oil, and although I will say that the current system is terrible... it works. I just don't see how the new system can actually benefit as many people as the previous system has done.

So, in technicality and in smoothness, the new system wins out no doubt. But in terms of actually being made for the people and not for the government, the current system wins completely.

I'm kinda neutral here, I agree with both sides, I mean, the government NEEDS money from somewhere - someone had to suffer. I think fees were inevitably going to rise, it's just unlucky it's our generation who are going to suffer. And if you're one of those 18,000 extra (and I say extra, because there were, and still are, other university and government-based schemes for people from a 'less advantaged background'), then it's a very good thing.

But on the other hand, for students like us, wanting to go to university, to have even the slightest chance of a decent job, the fees are tough. At the end of the day, we're probably going to have to like it or lump it, because it's a necessary evil, really. But, for those of us coming from a 'more advantaged background' (to use direct.gov's words...), it's unfair, especially if you're anything like me and not getting any support from your family. I have to take out loans for everything - and I'm in no doubt that I'm going to be paying off the debt for the rest of my life, especially considering the job I want.

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Originally Posted by R0BB13G

The system is broken. Although I fully admit this is not the best solution its better than it is and until you can tell me how the current system is fair I will stand by the government on these reforms.

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The question of 'fair' is difficult to answer though, because what we want is not what they want, and vice versa.

Once again, the poorest communities are better off, and the rest of us get nothing. I'm so ******* sick of this ****.

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Originally Posted by Biohazard

Once again, the poorest communities are better off, and the rest of us get nothing. I'm so ******* sick of this ****.

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Amen to that.

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Originally Posted by R0BB13G

You didn't answer my question...

The system is broken. Although I fully admit this is not the best solution its better than it is and until you can tell me how the current system is fair I will stand by the government on these reforms.

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The current system is very fair, tuition fees are capped at £3375, all unis charge the same amount - so there is no price elitism within universities.

60% of students get funding help they don't have to pay back, however this is only a third of the total price, this will decrease to less than 5% should this policy come in.
All students get the chance to get a loan at a fair price, staggered all the way up to about £50k.

Sounds pretty fair to me.

Although I respect we're in a sticky financial situation, so I believe the fee cap should raise to between £5000 and £6000, I'm from a middle class family and I struggle to fund my education, and I know thousands of others will too, including you unless you're super-rich.

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Originally Posted by Hecktix

The current system is very fair, tuition fees are capped at £3375, all unis charge the same amount - so there is no price elitism within universities.

60% of students get funding help they don't have to pay back, however this is only a third of the total price, this will decrease to less than 5% should this policy come in.
All students get the chance to get a loan at a fair price, staggered all the way up to about £50k.

Sounds pretty fair to me.

Although I respect we're in a sticky financial situation, so I believe the fee cap should raise to between £5000 and £6000, I'm from a middle class family and I struggle to fund my education, and I know thousands of others will too, including you unless you're super-rich.

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I'm not super rich, I'm like you..from a middle class family. I know I will have to take a loan out and I know that I won't get any help of funding from these schemes. But I live with it...

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Originally Posted by Fez

Unfortunately I belong in that group

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Non-white crippled women?

Sorry couldn't resist

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Originally Posted by Fez

Because I come from the worst of backgrounds, Oxbridge are forced to perform bias towards my application, even if I'm (lets say) labelled as "highly achieving" instead of "exceptional" which they normally ask for. In fact, in cases like this, the student suffers more really because we're being given a pat on the head and a chance to be something from a poorer background. Personally in the next few years I'd like to prove myself rather than already being held above other people from higher backgrounds.

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Interesting point, I'll confess I hadn't really thought about how it would affect "the 18000" (because I was busy being indignant at how stupid the proposal is :P) but you're absolutely right. I'd further suggest that - with no offence to you, I don't know your actual background obviously - people who've grown up in council flat estates and the likes are not going to be the sort who would benefit most from an Oxford placement. This I deduce from how I've seen people even from what I would consider rather well-off families struggle to fit in with what we think of as the typical Eton student lifestyle for both social and financial reasons. There are exceptions I'm sure but for the most part I don't imagine spending 3 years being petrified of doing anything that might make your peers look down on you is going to be what most aspire to

Sorry to possibly change topic, but isn't the fact you only pay when you have a job earning 21k+ meant to balance it out (to a certain extent)? I mean, my parents won't pay for my uni and I will obviously do so, so what if I get a job for 21k after uni, and a poor person get's one for 24k? Surely I am the poor one in that circumstance? But even so, I would still be able to pay off debt.

In the end, it's pretty pointless seeing as the "pay after" thing is in place. It's like scraping the top layer of a cake and saying you don't want it anymore as the rest is too rich (in flavour).

This is just another attempt at trying to get the legislation passed through Parliament. It says they can apply for the funding, but it doesn't state any requirements so the amount of people who got it could be like hardly any. Dirty tactics if you ask me & I don't like the sound of it one bit. Regardless of that fact anyway, what about those who are middle class, don't meet the requirements they set and have the huge debt that graduates will come out with? Yeah, government yet again playing the field there because they will get *nothing*

Plus when the poorest get of of uni anyway, they still have that huge interest to pay, there's no real benefit except that if they get a good job, they won't have to pay as long. It's an EMA situation all over again.

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Originally Posted by dbgtz

Sorry to possibly change topic, but isn't the fact you only pay when you have a job earning 21k+ meant to balance it out (to a certain extent)? I mean, my parents won't pay for my uni and I will obviously do so, so what if I get a job for 21k after uni, and a poor person get's one for 24k? Surely I am the poor one in that circumstance? But even so, I would still be able to pay off debt.

In the end, it's pretty pointless seeing as the "pay after" thing is in place. It's like scraping the top layer of a cake and saying you don't want it anymore as the rest is too rich (in flavour).

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Love the analogy. And you're totally right, as I said earlier, the 'poor' distinction doesn't seem fair, because you can't define poor as parents' earning. At the end of the day, we're going to have to pay off our debt, no matter how much we may earn over the boundary. But the government are trying to put more debt-helping schemes in place, I just can't remember what they are right now...