EU ABOLISHES ROAMING CHARGES

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Originally Posted by lawrawrrr

well because if we're the only developed country in the world to have a large cap on roaming charges it would put people off visiting and damage the tourism industry, no?

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Not at all, you've misunderstood roaming charges. You are affected by roaming charges when you go to another country based on your own providers decisions, not based on the country you are visiting. So if our government said we are banning roaming charges, then our companies would not be allowed their own customers for huge sums for going abroad. They would still be perfectly entitled to charge foreign visitors astronomical fees (of course, this is dependent on the network that the foreign visitor actually belongs to).

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Originally Posted by AgnesIO

Not at all, you've misunderstood roaming charges. You are affected by roaming charges when you go to another country based on your own providers decisions, not based on the country you are visiting. So if our government said we are banning roaming charges, then our companies would not be allowed their own customers for huge sums for going abroad. They would still be perfectly entitled to charge foreign visitors astronomical fees (of course, this is dependent on the network that the foreign visitor actually belongs to).

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I see. Yes, I thought that it was the countries that decided what roaming charges they charge visitors and the networks eat up or charge their customers for some reason.

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Originally Posted by lawrawrrr

I see. Yes, I thought that it was the countries that decided what roaming charges they charge visitors and the networks eat up or charge their customers for some reason.

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It is down to the network operator that you are visiting, technically speaking. As in, Airtel in Kenya tells EE that for their customers to use the network, they must pay X amount. A logical solution is to build partnerships with network providers overseas - like Three are doing with 'feel at home'. Having said that, Three's move to do that was largely because of the EU's roaming cap, as it gave them a distinct competitive advantage, before all providers had to scrap roaming charges anyway.

Basically, the ability to get all firms to agree on such caps across so many nations would be virtually impossible to do without something like the EU to legally enforce it. It would ultimately come down to whether we have more foreign visitors from x country using one of our networks than we have British nationals going to their country.

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Originally Posted by abc

So it is a general global initiative but the UK didn't bother to implement it? The UK didn't care they could have introduced a legislation which could have saved the British public £350m a year? Well thank God the EU stepped in then isn't it?

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Again why would Britain introduce it when it knew it was coming via EU legislation? A total waste of legislative time.

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Originally Posted by abc

And in reply to you saying the UK didn't bother making it law because the EU was going to - well thank you EU for saving our government time and money. The EU sat down, discussed and wrote a new legislation which saved the UK government time and money and now the EU legislation will save the British public money. Win win all thanks to the EU :)

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It hasn't saved us time and money because we could have introduced it earlier like others have done so.

In any case let us pretend for the sake of example that the British government was dead set against this legislation, yeah? Now can you tell me how it would be democratically just and correct that the unelected EU would then have the power to overrule our elected government and impose this legislation on us?

If I want a piece of legislation introduced or repealed, I elect an MP and he/she argues for it in parliament & it votes on it: that's called democracy.

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Originally Posted by abc

Yes Three and LycaMobile have scrapped it. I use Three and like the fact that in many countries I can now use my UK allowance at no extra cost. However most other UK networks have not done this. BTW - those two networks have done it to gain a competitive advantage and also because they are based in those countries also allowing them to make roaming free.

I hope I have answered all your questions and comments on this simple topic.

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No you haven't actually answered my questions on this. Here's one.

Are you claiming that by leaving the EU or being outside of the EU Britain would not be able to cap mobile roaming charges? yes/no

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

In any case let us pretend for the sake of example that the British government was dead set against this legislation, yeah? Now can you tell me how it would be democratically just and correct that the unelected EU would then have the power to overrule our elected government and impose this legislation on us?

If I want a piece of legislation introduced or repealed, I elect an MP and he/she argues for it in parliament & it votes on it: that's called democracy.



No you haven't actually answered my questions on this. Here's one.

Are you claiming that by leaving the EU or being outside of the EU Britain would not be able to cap mobile roaming charges? yes/no

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I am not claiming that and neither have I ever claimed that or stated anything to suggest I believe that. I am, however, stating that Britain failed to do this on its own.

You are correct, we elect MP's. However we also elect MEP's who represent us in the European Parliament, and who have been in the majority over 2000 times. They have only been in the minority a mere 50-70 times (the exact amount is debated). The times we have been in the minority, many British public had actually wanted us to vote in favour of the legislation.

Despite how grim, evil, nasty you portray the EU to be, it has put in law many beneficial laws such as the climate change initiative, roaming tariffs, helped young people benefit from EU funds etc.

You are fixated on this idea that by being in the EU we are not independent, we are not free, we are ruled by someone else. No we are not. The world is changing at an extremely fast pace. What the EU allows is total and complete freedom. The type of freedom people in non-EU countries would die for. So many of my friends no longer reside or work in the UK, they work in other European countries and that is all thanks to the EU and the free movement of labour. It is allowing our citizens to find new challenges in different places/countries. It is expanding the freedom of our citizens to work where they want without restriction. It is allowing students to study for a degree abroad without having to pay international fees which are ridiculously high. It is allowing our businesses the freedom to look at a larger labour pool rather than restricting them to one country.

The world is changing, and we need to change with it.

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Originally Posted by abc

I am not claiming that and neither have I ever claimed that or stated anything to suggest I believe that. I am, however, stating that Britain failed to do this on its own.

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Thank you, at last!

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Originally Posted by abc

You are correct, we elect MP's. However we also elect MEP's who represent us in the European Parliament, and who have been in the majority over 2000 times. They have only been in the minority a mere 50-70 times (the exact amount is debated). The times we have been in the minority, many British public had actually wanted us to vote in favour of the legislation.

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Firstly you're confusing votes in the EP with votes in the Council of Ministers.

https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-facts...-uk-influence/

Our MEPs account for less than 8% (and falling with the admission of new members) and in addition the European Parliament is not a democratic parliament firstly because of the lack of a demos of which you cannot have a functioning democracy and secondly in that it is merely a rubber stamp chamber because it is the unelected European Commission which writes up the laws, not the EP. This is unlike any democratic parliament like say the House of Commons where the government is taken and formed from the floor of the chamber and the opposition/any member can propose legislation.

It is the core difference which led Baroness Thatcher to refuse to call it a Parliament and instead referred to the body as an Assembly.

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Originally Posted by abc

Despite how grim, evil, nasty you portray the EU to be, it has put in law many beneficial laws such as the climate change initiative, roaming tariffs, helped young people benefit from EU funds etc.

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Climate change initiatives should be taken at an intergovernmental level just as Canada, Australia and everyone else manages.

Roaming tariff caps again are not an invention of the EU nor are they unique to the EU.

Young people benefiting from EU funding is a meaningless catchphrase but where does EU funding come from I wonder?

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Originally Posted by abc

You are fixated on this idea that by being in the EU we are not independent, we are not free, we are ruled by someone else. No we are not. The world is changing at an extremely fast pace. What the EU allows is total and complete freedom. The type of freedom people in non-EU countries would die for. So many of my friends no longer reside or work in the UK, they work in other European countries and that is all thanks to the EU and the free movement of labour. It is allowing our citizens to find new challenges in different places/countries. It is expanding the freedom of our citizens to work where they want without restriction. It is allowing students to study for a degree abroad without having to pay international fees which are ridiculously high. It is allowing our businesses the freedom to look at a larger labour pool rather than restricting them to one country.

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We are ruled from abroad and it is only going to get worse.

Those of you on Remain who continue to pretend this is just an economic bloc are telling outright lies. It's time you admitted the end goal.

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"The creation of a single European state bound by one European constitution is 'the decisive task of our time'" - Joschka Fischer, former German Foreign Minister, 1998.

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"There is no danger of a single currency." - Ted Heath, former British Prime Minister, 1975.

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"Europe's nations should be guided towards the super-state without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps each disguised as having an economic purpose, but which will eventually and irreversibly lead to federation." - Jean Monnet, Founder of the European Movement, 1952.

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"I have never understood why public opinion about European ideas should be taken into account." - Raymond Barre, former French Prime Minister.

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Sissons: "...the single currency, the United States of Europe: was that on your mind when you took Britain in?"
Heath: "Of course, Yes." - Ted Heath, former British Prime Minister, 1991.

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"With its own army, Europe could react more credibly to the threat to peace in a member state or in a neighbouring state”. - Jean Claude Juncker, current President of the European Commission

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"The creeping unification of Europe ... since the time of Jacques Delors [has been] managed by the bureaucrats from Brussels behind the back of the continent's population, behind the back of the citizens of individual member states" - Valclav Klaus, President of the Czech Republic, 2003.

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"If the British cannot support the trend towards more integration in Europe, we can nevertheless remain friends, but on a different basis.
I could imagine a form such as a European economic area or a free-trade agreement."- Former European Commission President Jacques Delors, Handelsblatt, 28 December 2012

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"There are 27 of us. Clearly,down the line, we will have to include the Balkans. There will be 32, 33 or 34 of us. No one thinks that federalism, total integration, will be possible with 33, 34 or 35 States. Clearly there will be a two-speed Europe: one speed that moves towards a Federation for the eurozone and one speed for a Confederation within the European Union." - French President Sarkozy, 8 November 2011

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"We want more Europe and stronger powers to intervene. Treaty changes for that should not be taboo" - Chancellor Angela Merkel - Irish Times Monday 24 October 2011

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"We have a shared currency but no real economic or political union. This must change. If we were to achieve this, therein lies the opportunity of the crisis. We have to view the crisis as a motive, to make up for failures - failures that were not remedied by the Lisbon Treaty...And beyond the economic, after the shared currency, we will perhaps dare to take futher steps, for example for a European army." - German Chancellor Angela Merkel

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How much more do they need to spell it out for you to understand where this is going?

It means the end of Britain as a sovereign, independent and self-governing state.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVt_1ByddUQ

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Originally Posted by abc

The world is changing, and we need to change with it.

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The world is changing you are correct.

How does that then lead you to declare that we need to tie ourselves to a declining 1950s trade bloc?

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

Thank you, at last!



Firstly you're confusing votes in the EP with votes in the Council of Ministers.

https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-facts...-uk-influence/

Our MEPs account for less than 8% (and falling with the admission of new members) and in addition the European Parliament is not a democratic parliament firstly because of the lack of a demos of which you cannot have a functioning democracy and secondly in that it is merely a rubber stamp chamber because it is the unelected European Commission which writes up the laws, not the EP. This is unlike any democratic parliament like say the House of Commons where the government is taken and formed from the floor of the chamber and the opposition/any member can propose legislation.

It is the core difference which led Baroness Thatcher to refuse to call it a Parliament and instead referred to the body as an Assembly.



Climate change initiatives should be taken at an intergovernmental level just as Canada, Australia and everyone else manages.

Roaming tariff caps again are not an invention of the EU nor are they unique to the EU.

Young people benefiting from EU funding is a meaningless catchphrase but where does EU funding come from I wonder?



We are ruled from abroad and it is only going to get worse.

Those of you on Remain who continue to pretend this is just an economic bloc are telling outright lies. It's time you admitted the end goal.



How much more do they need to spell it out for you to understand where this is going?

It means the end of Britain as a sovereign, independent and self-governing state.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVt_1ByddUQ

The world is changing you are correct.

How does that then lead you to declare that we need to tie ourselves to a declining 1950s trade bloc?

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Are you seriously quoting things from 40+ years ago again and trying to pretend they are applicable today? In which case lets pretend slavery, racism, sexism are all OK today too because someone said it was OK 40+ years ago.

@abc; Please please please reply to all the many quotes I took the time to write up and post from senior EU figures and European leaders over the years who've stated exactly where this is all going. I can provide countless more if you really want them directly from the Commission and others, or simply read the wording of the treaties themselves which make it quite plain what the final objective is. Or alternatively you can read the Five Presidents Report the EU recently published which outlines the plan to move to full economic union which the second stage results in inevitable political union by 2025.

I repeat. It means the end of Britain as a sovereign, independent and self-governing nation. The EU has always been a political idea, not economic.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

@abc; Please please please reply to all the many quotes I took the time to write up and post from senior EU figures and European leaders over the years who've stated exactly where this is all going. I can provide countless more if you really want them directly from the Commission and others, or simply read the wording of the treaties themselves which make it quite plain what the final objective is. Or alternatively you can read the Five Presidents Report the EU recently published which outlines the plan to move to full economic union which the second stage results in inevitable political union by 2025.

I repeat. It means the end of Britain as a sovereign, independent and self-governing nation. The EU has always been a political idea, not economic.

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I am not going to read quotes from 40+ years and pretend they are applicable today. The world has changed. The economic outlook has changed. You are insane for even quoting 40+ year old speeches.

The laws EU is making I have no problems with. The key laws are still made by our government and will continue to be done by our government. The UK government has already said we will not move to the Euro as our currency, and if they ever try the public backlash will mean it will be a political suicide.

I am going to go back to doing what I have done for the last few months and that is to ignore all your posts again.

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Originally Posted by abc

I am not going to read quotes from 40+ years and pretend they are applicable today. The world has changed. The economic outlook has changed. You are insane for even quoting 40+ year old speeches.

The laws EU is making I have no problems with. The key laws are still made by our government and will continue to be done by our government. The UK government has already said we will not move to the Euro as our currency, and if they ever try the public backlash will mean it will be a political suicide.

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He's not got one reply to even recent quotes or official EU reports detailing where the EU is heading and yet he accuses me of being unable to debate.

I repeat. Reply to the countless quotations from 2010+ on this from EU leaders as well as an official report or shut up and quit wasting my time.

Read. The. Damned. Report ffs.https://ec.europa.eu/priorities/publ...etary-union_en