When it comes down to crunch time, I believe Lib Dems will be far behind in third place.
When it comes down to crunch time, I believe Lib Dems will be far behind in third place.
Lib Dems sez they will have a nuclear deterrent, but not the trident.
Is that possible/does it matter?
tbh I think nick clegg just played with words in that tv debate.
Both of my parents work in the public or semi-public sector and i think they accept that they will have to accept freezes in their pay, just like thousands of other workers in the private sector. Sure, there are green subsidies, but what makes you think that Nuclear doesn't get any help? The government spends £1.6bn on helping the nuclear industry get rid of its waste. And de-comissioning of these sites costs many billions more. The LibDems claim they have costed it all, not sure how well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wig44.
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Lib dems are so pro-EU it is unbelievable. They would have us support the unfair EU 'police'. Europol has the right to arrest you with no evidence and detain you for 6 months, no questions asked. What worries me is the chance that the lib dems may take this further and switch to corpus juris. The EU's system of corpus juris is unfair where you are not innocent until proven guilty and can be arrested before any investigation has taken place and detained for months, unlike in Britain where we have common law & Habeas Corpus. Furthermore, whereas a jury is sovereign in our courts, this is very much not so in EU courts. A career judiciary who are the judges and prosecutors replaces the jury and the defence (a group of lawyers) are treated as inferior. Double jeopardy (charged of the same crime twice after the first trial failed to convict) is sadly commonplace in the EU system - not in Britain though. What disgusts me is the Lib Dems assertion that the Lisbon Treaty was good for Britain. Let me be straight with you Nick, you're either deluded or a liar.
There are definate pros of joining up more formally with the rest of europe's police forces and arrest warrants, but trial by jury should never ever leave the UK like it has done in some jurisdictions. Remember, not every EU state has the same way of doing things. Italy, for example does have trial by jury and so does france afaik.
many asylum seekers who make claim asylum when caught in places like dover only do so because they've been caught illegally immigrating. the french are dreadful and should make sure they remove illegal immigrants, infact i'd like to see the EU bring in stronger border controls. the libdem's immigration policy imo is the best. those outside the EU require a job, a sponser and only allowed to work in certain areas and an illegal immigrant amnesty of those who have lived for 10-15 years and have been working and never commited a crime sounds good - they'll now actually pay tax! I think the main problem with the EU at the moment is the accession of Romania and Bulgaria - countries with more problems and economies so bad it's untrue. i think many people have recognised this mistake. I mean for heaven's sake romania gets charity support! we have so many unemployed UNPRODUCTIVE people. the bit in caps is the issue - we need to make them more productive so we can have a more productive economy. If we want british companies to be competitive - then our businesses need the best workers, foreign or not.Quote:
They also don't seem to realise that asylum sekers should go to the nearest safe country for asylum. They sometimes travel through 45 safe countries to reach Britain because of the welfare state and not tough on immigration mentality of the government. We've taken on so many asylum seekers, it's time the 45 countries who the asylum seekers could choose take them in instead, and time we stopped accepting asylum seekers. We have no room and have done more than our fair share. When turkey joins the EU and 75,000,000+ people are free to emmigrate to the UK the lib dems and their ridiculous immigration policy will turn less population dense parts of the country into the splitting at the seems overcrowded scenario that many areas around the country face. Any jobs that we 'need' immigrant workers for should be filled by jobseekers. we have so many people who are unemployed we should not be importing workers to do jobs.
Before I go on I'd like to see what you have to say on these points.
the euro appears to be going strength to strength and it definately has some benefits and definately some serious drawbacks. a serious national debate based on truths and proper economics would be required before an informed electorate can take a decision. I'm a bit sceptical about joining the euro because i don't think our economy matches the cycles as tightly as france and germany.Quote:
Edit: I noticed you said that some lib dems oppose joning the euro-zone. Nick Clegg has almost explicitly said that in future we will join the euro (if he had his way) and this worries me because the euro is not a stable currency in my eyes and not only this but it would be very hard to leave once joined. This is because all gold and old currency (£) is sent to the ECB. This can only be a ploy by the EU to stop people backing out because that is all it does - stops people from backing out.
Up the Lib Dems!
I am sorry but who gave the European Union the consent to make one European police force?Quote:
Both of my parents work in the public or semi-public sector and i think they accept that they will have to accept freezes in their pay, just like thousands of other workers in the private sector. Sure, there are green subsidies, but what makes you think that Nuclear doesn't get any help? The government spends £1.6bn on helping the nuclear industry get rid of its waste. And de-comissioning of these sites costs many billions more. The LibDems claim they have costed it all, not sure how well.
There are definate pros of joining up more formally with the rest of europe's police forces and arrest warrants, but trial by jury should never ever leave the UK like it has done in some jurisdictions. Remember, not every EU state has the same way of doing things. Italy, for example does have trial by jury and so does france afaik.
Or how about this; leave the European Union thus securing control of all our borders?Quote:
many asylum seekers who make claim asylum when caught in places like dover only do so because they've been caught illegally immigrating. the french are dreadful and should make sure they remove illegal immigrants, infact i'd like to see the EU bring in stronger border controls. the libdem's immigration policy imo is the best. those outside the EU require a job, a sponser and only allowed to work in certain areas and an illegal immigrant amnesty of those who have lived for 10-15 years and have been working and never commited a crime sounds good - they'll now actually pay tax! I think the main problem with the EU at the moment is the accession of Romania and Bulgaria - countries with more problems and economies so bad it's untrue. i think many people have recognised this mistake. I mean for heaven's sake romania gets charity support! we have so many unemployed UNPRODUCTIVE people. the bit in caps is the issue - we need to make them more productive so we can have a more productive economy. If we want british companies to be competitive - then our businesses need the best workers, foreign or not.
The Liberal Democrats policy cannot be the best when it comes to people coming into the United Kingdom because it does not have any real control over immigration from the European Union, in other words; its a total and utter sham. While people like yourself who support the European Union do not like to debate this point, it needs debating. We have no control of our borders to the European Union which has led to mass immigration into this country which has driven down wages thus making more British people unemployed and also putting enormous strain on this country and its benefits system.
What you mean here is 'only allow a debate as long as it conforms to my point of view despite the fact i'm in the minority' and refuse point-blank to hold a referendum on our membership of the European Union because you know what the outcome would be. You say the EU isnt a superstate and cannot become a superstate without our consent, but having one currency is the mark of a country and thus you lose your economic & monetary sovereignty.Quote:
Before I go on I'd like to see what you have to say on these points.
the euro appears to be going strength to strength and it definately has some benefits and definately some serious drawbacks. a serious national debate based on truths and proper economics would be required before an informed electorate can take a decision. I'm a bit sceptical about joining the euro because i don't think our economy matches the cycles as tightly as france and germany.
Something with its own currency, flag, economic regulations, social regulations, President and Commission (in other words, a government) is a superstate no matter how you and the politicians from the three main parties attempt to word it.
The nationally elected governments and europol are directly accountable to EUparl.Quote:
Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-
We already do, we aren't in the Schengen area.Quote:
Or how about this; leave the European Union thus securing control of all our borders?
Have you ever travelled from one european state to the next, IE Germany to France, France to Germany, Belgium to France? I have, and not once do you see a border guard or border post, apart from a sign. We have complete control over our borders, how about you start and say why we don't? Would you prefer the British economy is kept inefficient with shortages? How can you argue that low wages put british people OUT of work? It's completely the opposite.Quote:
The Liberal Democrats policy cannot be the best when it comes to people coming into the United Kingdom because it does not have any real control over immigration from the European Union, in other words; its a total and utter sham. While people like yourself who support the European Union do not like to debate this point, it needs debating. We have no control of our borders to the European Union which has led to mass immigration into this country which has driven down wages thus making more British people unemployed and also putting enormous strain on this country and its benefits system.
Why do you cry on about something that i'm not talking about? Is your turntable ok? you sound like a broken record.Quote:
What you mean here is 'only allow a debate as long as it conforms to my point of view despite the fact i'm in the minority' and refuse point-blank to hold a referendum on our membership of the European Union because you know what the outcome would be. You say the EU isnt a superstate and cannot become a superstate without our consent, but having one currency is the mark of a country and thus you lose your economic & monetary sovereignty.
Something with its own currency, flag, economic regulations, social regulations, President and Commission (in other words, a government) is a superstate no matter how you and the politicians from the three main parties attempt to word it.
Do we? Is that why we have the hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants we have?Quote:
Originally Posted by alexxxxx
that's nothing to do with the EU, that's to do with the inefficiencies of our own border force.Quote:
Originally Posted by MattFr
True story.Quote:
Originally Posted by alexxxxx
We have 2.5 Million illegal immigrants in this country that it will cost £10 Billion to find, that's £10 Billion that we don't have. Instead the Liberal Democrats accept that they are here and rather than just leaving them hidden they propose an amnesty where those who have been here for over 10 years and have assimilated with the population can stay. It's a good idea because it's near impossible to find them hence the £10 Billion figure and whilst they are illegals they are not paying tax. I mean at the end of the day, we can't find these people so the very least we can do is tax them and therefore ensure that high standards of welfare for the people who are here legally.