What people are underpaid/overpaid?

I like the idea of performance-determined pay. I've had many teachers that are solely in it for the money. I believe teaching should be driven by passion instead of an income.

Many people say soldiers should get paid more. I am for an against this. Most soldiers I know are really foul mannered and simply doing it as they have no qualifications. Again, this could be performance-related, with great, heroic, altruistic soldiers being paid a lot, lot, lot more. (But how do you determine this without life-threatening risk that could leave the person dead before they get paid)...

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Originally Posted by Munex

I like the idea of performance-determined pay. I've had many teachers that are solely in it for the money. I believe teaching should be driven by passion instead of an income.

Many people say soldiers should get paid more. I am for an against this. Most soldiers I know are really foul mannered and simply doing it as they have no qualifications. Again, this could be performance-related, with great, heroic, altruistic soldiers being paid a lot, lot, lot more. (But how do you determine this without life-threatening risk that could leave the person dead before they get paid)...

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Surely with performance related pay for teachers, teachers will want to do well because of income, and not because their passionate.

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Originally Posted by Kardan

Surely with performance related pay for teachers, teachers will want to do well because of income, and not because their passionate.

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That is true, but if they are deemed good teachers through assessment, then what difference does it make? Good teachers go the extra mile, not the bare minimum. Even if it is driven by money, as long as they are faking the passion well enough, it will still be as effective as someone who is truly passionate about their job.

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Originally Posted by Munex

That is true, but if they are deemed good teachers through assessment, then what difference does it make? Good teachers go the extra mile, not the bare minimum. Even if it is driven by money, as long as they are faking the passion well enough, it will still be as effective as someone who is truly passionate about their job.

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How do you judge a good teacher then in a fair and honest way? And I think every kid would rather have a good passionate teacher than a 'good' teacher driven by money.

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Originally Posted by Kardan

How do you judge a good teacher then in a fair and honest way? And I think every kid would rather have a good passionate teacher than a 'good' teacher driven by money.

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Teachers are already assessed by, I think, Ofsted (or maybe a different organisation). Someone goes in to review their lessons. And of course every student would rather a passionate teacher, but if one is passionate and one is driven by money (and both perform equally as well as each other), why should it matter if the one driven by money is paid the same as the passionate (but not any better) teacher?

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Originally Posted by Kardan

I think you'll find they don't :P I would be highly surprised if you lined up a group of bad teachers and a group of good teachers and they all had the same salary :P

As a teacher there are options for promotion based on performance, and trust me, you definitely can get fired. I know at least 5 teachers that were fired.

As I stated before then, should a doctor that saves the lives of 100/100 people with broken arms be paid more than someone who saves 0/100 lives of people with terminal cancer, just because they performed better in their job role?

What about people in the army? The more people you kill, the more money you get? What about bus drivers? The more passengers, the more money? Same with pilots?

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How do they have different salaries if they aren't getting paid for the quality of their work? The only teachers that get paid more are the older ones as far as i know. The only teacher i know who got fired was a guy who went to a strip club and got pissed while he was meant to be taking care of students on a tour. :L

You're providing the same example even though i said that there would be provisions for cases, like say, dyslexic or mentally disabled students. It wouldnt be a simple x improve= y pay.

Those other jobs you provide aren't comparable or you are thinking or the wrong way to compare them. In the army you are promoted/demoted for good work. Bus drivers and pilots bring people from a-b, you cannot improve that really. Clearly you can be a better teacher though, so i don't know what you meant with these examples?

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Originally Posted by Eoin247

How do they have different salaries if they aren't getting paid for the quality of their work? The only teachers that get paid more are the older ones as far as i know. The only teacher i know who got fired was a guy who went to a strip club and got pissed while he was meant to be taking care of students on a tour. :L

You're providing the same example even though i said that there would be provisions for cases, like say, dyslexic or mentally disabled students. It wouldnt be a simple x improve= y pay.

Those other jobs you provide aren't comparable or you are thinking or the wrong way to compare them. In the army you are promoted/demoted for good work. Bus drivers and pilots bring people from a-b, you cannot improve that really. Clearly you can be a better teacher though, so i don't know what you meant with these examples?

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Yup, as you said, the longer you've been teaching, the more you get paid, that's where different salaries come from. Also I imagine there's different salaries for different subjects due to demand.

I also think you're misintepreting how difficult it would be to launch this over the whole country. What happens for a teacher that teaches both ordinary students and students with mental disabilities? There's so many individual cases to think about.

And how can you *always* be a better teacher?

What would happen if soldiers were given footballer's wages?

http://supportersnotcustomers.com/20...ballers-wages/

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Originally Posted by Kardan

What happens for a teacher that teaches both ordinary students and students with mental disabilities? There's so many individual cases to think about.

And how can you *always* be a better teacher?

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Sorry but i've mentioned twice already that there would be exceptions for students with mental disabilities and others. It doesn't have to be rocket science, obviously not as much would be expected from these students.

If you cannot become a good teacher then you picked the wrong job. There's thousands of other jobs to choose from. You shouldn't stay a bad teacher and hinder education just because you think that you cannot change.

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Originally Posted by Eoin247

Sorry but i've mentioned twice already that there would be exceptions for students with mental disabilities and others. It doesn't have to be rocket science, obviously not as much would be expected from these students.

If you cannot become a good teacher then you picked the wrong job. There's thousands of other jobs to choose from. You shouldn't stay a bad teacher and hinder education just because you think that you cannot change.

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This is my point, by making an exception for students with mental disabilities, not only will you have to come up with the many thousands of different scenarios needed for each individual case, you'll probably push teachers more towards teaching classes that have more exceptions so they can get better pay.

Maybe I'll reword my different question then... How would you decide who a crap teacher was then?