counterproductive moderation.

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Originally Posted by FlyingJesus

Applicants fair enough, I'm not suggesting that all comms staff should have a certain post count or join date or anything, but they absolutely should not be people who shy away from using the forums as you seem to suggest they do

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I don't think "shy away" is the best phrasing - it's more just the simple fact that they're being thrown into the deep end of a new community. They need to be slowly introduced and encouraged rather than expected to just get out there and post (because indeed, they're not machines). I daresay this encouragement can only take place if there's a solid base in their respective staff forums.

Another issue I've noticed over the years is that new users simply don't know how to use forums. I've spent hours explaining how a forum works to potential new users on the client. They just don't understand how the different sections work, and they don't know what a "thread" or a "post" is. This is one reason why I made a couple of videos for EOs to explain how they book events and create Community Notice Board announcements - I do think the site would benefit if there were some available explaining how the forum in general works. Didn't Oli make some a few years ago? The only one I can find is the one at www.habboxforum.com/help, but I'm pretty sure there were some more. :P

departments who provide to the community should be a part of the community, not hide away in a spam thread.
if staff bonding is the reason the thread is there, managers should make an effort to bond in other ways.

i struggle to believe they're that clueless on posting when they've managed to send a private message to apply in the first place. but i do hear the next few weeks the forum team have exciting stuff planned so hopefully it'll all remedy itself.

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Originally Posted by Dave.

departments who provide to the community should be a part of the community, not hide away in a spam thread.
if staff bonding is the reason the thread is there, managers should make an effort to bond in other ways.

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So non-community departments are allowed to be social recluses too? :P
Read my other posts for reasons why removing them would be pointless more than anything.

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Originally Posted by Bethie

i struggle to believe they're that clueless on posting when they've managed to send a private message to apply in the first place. but i do hear the next few weeks the forum team have exciting stuff planned so hopefully it'll all remedy itself.

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You can quite easily talk them through how to send a PM, although I was talking about a possible reason why new members don't post in general as opposed to staff! :D

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Originally Posted by Mathew

I don't think "shy away" is the best phrasing - it's more just the simple fact that they're being thrown into the deep end of a new community. They need to be slowly introduced and encouraged rather than expected to just get out there and post (because indeed, they're not machines). I daresay this encouragement can only take place if there's a solid base in their respective staff forums.

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New members who don't become staff seem to manage fine away from a "solid base" in a separate area :S besides new staff are not the only problem or even a majority of the problem here, people like Sam and Kirsty are hardly new but they both seem to demand segregation, among many others

I think when you say 'what should we do to increase staff posting', you should ask 'would this idea work for normal members' and if it doesn't then perhaps it's not as good as you think it is because if you remove their ranks, that is what every staff member is. A member. Forcing normal members to post sounds ridiculous so why is it good for staff members, for example?

I don't really agree with moving staff spam threads because in my experience, the only time the comps department has really worked at all cylinders is when staff morale was high as a result of them all talking in the spam thread. This has benefits for the community because as a result, there were better competitions and more activity on Habbo. I also don't agree because staff are volunteers. There are staff members that'd work round the clock no matter what happened but these, imo, are a minority. The odd diamond that shines more brighter. While everyone's contribution is ofc helpful and respected, these people tend to go above and beyond what's expected. However, there are other staff members who only do it for fun or something they do in their spare time so making the staff forums all business-like would just put them off. I am also not entirely convinced that posting would increase as a result of staff spam threads being removed. There isn't really any evidence to back this up either way so a trial run to see what would happen would be interesting but my own hypothesis would be that these people would just not post at all. And then finally, the word community has been banded about a lot and I agree that community departments should be seen and heard around the community but does that just mean the forum community? There are a lot of community staff that don't post a great deal, the odd post here and there, but they are really active on Habbo and have a lot of friends in corners of Habbo that Habbox has never really been able to get into. We should be encouraging these staff to invite their friends over to Habbox. We should be encouraging these staff that there is also a forum community that they should get involved with rather than using the forum as a noticeboard for staff announcements; to give them the best in both worlds with Habbox getting the benefits (extra posts, extra members) and the only way they are going to do that is if they like the job they do here. In short, management need to encourage, not force, staff to post by highlighting and showing the benefits of posting in the forum community.

I did have an idea that quality threads could be rewarded in a QI type award. Every month, forum management reward those thread starters that provided the most quality discussion. Obviously, quality is subjective but the idea being that people would start making threads about what they find interesting.

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Originally Posted by Inseriousity.

However, there are other staff members who only do it for fun or something they do in their spare time so making the staff forums all business-like would just put them off. I am also not entirely convinced that posting would increase as a result of staff spam threads being removed. There isn't really any evidence to back this up either way so a trial run to see what would happen would be interesting but my own hypothesis would be that these people would just not post at all.

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Originally Posted by FlyingJesus

Frankly they have **** all reason for being staff then. If you're not regularly posting on the forum you are not a decent member of the community, and that's that. If you're completely unknown and refuse to integrate with the members you're supposed to be representing then you have no place whatsoever pretending to be a beacon for Habbox, no matter how good you are at sitting in a room clicking dice.

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Already covered people who don't/won't post regardless of the existence of staff spam - they are easily replaced and of no use to the community as a whole.

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Originally Posted by Inseriousity.

And then finally, the word community has been banded about a lot and I agree that community departments should be seen and heard around the community but does that just mean the forum community? There are a lot of community staff that don't post a great deal, the odd post here and there, but they are really active on Habbo and have a lot of friends in corners of Habbo that Habbox has never really been able to get into. We should be encouraging these staff to invite their friends over to Habbox.

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No it's not the only part, but it's a massive part and an important one that all community staff should be actively involved with. If a member of events said they don't like using Habbo any more but should still be kept on because they post on the forum and community does not "just mean the Habbo community" it would be ridiculous, and this is the same.

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Originally Posted by Inseriousity.

We should be encouraging these staff that there is also a forum community that they should get involved with rather than using the forum as a noticeboard for staff announcements; to give them the best in both worlds with Habbox getting the benefits (extra posts, extra members) and the only way they are going to do that is if they like the job they do here. In short, management need to encourage, not force, staff to post by highlighting and showing the benefits of posting in the forum community.

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Yes, encouragement is better than force but I think it's only Bethie who's actually mentioned forcing staff to post so that's not really a point that needs much addressing. It should be something they're doing already, and staff spam is a huge block in that respect in that it keeps staff and members divided.

Tbh though I never use staff spam forums and don't see the point in them existing anyway tbh, does just seem to take them away from the "non staff community"

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Originally Posted by FlyingJesus

Yes, encouragement is better than force but I think it's only Bethie who's actually mentioned forcing staff to post so that's not really a point that needs much addressing. It should be something they're doing already, and staff spam is a huge block in that respect in that it keeps staff and members divided.

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the only reason i mentioned "forcing people to post" is that was the response when i suggested people encourage their staff to post the response i received was "i'm not going to force people to post"

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Originally Posted by Samanfa

No we don't all post in the spam, if we did there would be thousands of threads per day.

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Considering HxF tops out at no more than five hundred users per day I don't see how 'thousands' of threads would be created daily. Maybe it was an exaggeration but it doesn't make much sense.

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Originally Posted by Samanfa

Again I do not agree most of the staff in the departments I am in post on the forum, there are only a few that don't which do tend to be trialists if they have applied from habbox.com itself so again I feel it isn't that they don't post where we all can see. They do, they just post in other forums and if you are too into spam then you would not notice. :).

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I kind of resent that sort of comment. Clearly you do not know me very well or you would know that I post all over the entire Forum minus a few sections I have no experience with like Automobiles. To act like someone who is a regular in Spam only cares about Spam and Spam itself, ignoring all other sections, is a rude thing to say. I love every section and spread my posts accordingly.

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Originally Posted by Samanfa

Sorry I am not forcing my staff to post in spam, you can't make them, just like you can't make them post in the staff spam forums, it doesn't mean that they are inactive, they post in the normal forums. They don't need to do anything more than do the role they volunteer to do.

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Samanfa, I don't recall ever calling anyone inactive. I am not asking for staff to be forced to post in Spam but rather try out the removal of Staff Spam and have the staff that used to post there post their topics in the regular Spam. If they are not in to Spam forums, fair play. They don't have to post in Staff Spam and if Staff Spam was gone they wouldn't have to post in Spam either. It is their choice. No one asked you to force anyone to do anything and it is a dodgy statement to claim otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Samanfa

I thought that too, but when sly threads or comments are made about me when I don't even post there it get's annoying so why the hell should I be made to post there?

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Again, no one is forcing you to post there. If you don't feel comfortable with the atmosphere in Spam, then by all means, stay away at your will. I haven't been here as long as others but I do know that it is a fact that Spam has become much more welcoming and open that it was a few years ago. I personally haven't seen anything 'sly' about you in the past month or month and a half. It might be that you are reading too much in to this.

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Originally Posted by Samanfa

It would be nice, not disputing that, but then again do you like everyone on the forum? You get a few staff posting in spam such as the forum moderators and others, I know it's not much but at least you get a few people. You can't make every single staff spam there, if you want your friends to join in maybe mention them so you can create a conversation with them :D.

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That is a really haughty thing to say! Why should it be anyone's responsibility to push people to post anywhere? What I am asking for is the trial removal of Staff Spam so that all spam threads are directed in to the regular Spam forum. If you are friends with someone, you don't have the responsibility to beg at them to speak to you every time you want interaction. In the real world, friendships are a mutual thing and you build the relationship by doing things for each other without prompting. I do adore the staff that post in Spam because I have gotten to know them and made lovely friendships but for you to say that I should be happy with that and shush up makes me think the 'ivory tower' reference people were making before is sort of true. I am not completely sure but it is definitely in my mind. On that note, yes, I respect each and every member of the forum. I am not a vindictive or judgemental person.

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Originally Posted by Samanfa

There are rude people, there are rude people all over the forum, doesn't mean we should stop posting though and although I don't post in spam, I post in many threads all over the forum but at least most of the staff in the departments I'm in do post, again I say you can't really ask for more. Most staff do not hide though, just because they don't post in spam doesn't mean they are hiding away. Are you familiar with some profiles, look at the staff list, look at their profiles and see how many posts they have, I think you might be surprised.

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I ask that you please don't try to lord yourself over me like I am ignorant or something. I pride myself in the fact that I am very aware regarding what goes on in the forum and I post more frequently than almost anyone. I read and often reply to staff posts in other sections. The thing is that you are missing the point - by giving staff a special 'Spam' for themselves they are naturally inclined to post there as opposed to with the rest of us in regular Spam. When I mentioned the word 'hide', I meant that their spam posts are hidden in a forum not visible to me or most other members. I don't get to see their day to day remarks on non-topic things and I am deprived of the chance at a relationship with them akin to that I have built with Spam regulars. I know this is a repeat, but I am not asking for staff to be forced to post in Spam. I simply request that someone at least tries to encourage the mix of Staff Spam and regular Spam so that more interaction can take place. Connections and conversation are the basis of this forum and any forum for that matter.

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Originally Posted by Samanfa

Not a dig I just didn't agree with all your post, but even if staff spam was closed I wouldn't post in the spam forum, in a rare occasion I will but it doesn't mean I am hiding away if I don't.

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I understand this and there are no hard feelings. I can respect that we have a difference of opinion. I don't think you are hiding away nor do I think you have any obligation to post in Spam but I don't agree with staff having a separate Staff Spam that is hidden from the rest of the regular users. Staff bonding can occur through other methods and it would be, in my view, a great move forward for the forum to encourage the mix and conversation between staff and regular users. I know this isn't an extreme case, but I don't think you support a sort of 'apartness' on the forum. Staff are equal to regular users - they just have different responsibilities. Having a green username doesn't change anything about the person behind it.

In any case, fair play and I appreciate hearing your side of things. I will definitely take it to heart. Cheers and you have a wonderful day, Samanfa.