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It didn't cause any problem before hand, other than annoy a few people who seemed ignorant of the fact that posts aren't worth much, and that the threads weren't doing any damage to the forum. They could of kept where they were, but for some reason they were removed without any actual discussion. That's why it seems a change for the sake of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
Well if its not having any negative effects on the forum now then wouldn't we be changing it back for the sake of it?Quote:
Originally Posted by GommeInc
Not all, not when you're reverting a change for the sake of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
Tell the people who were labelling them pointless under the forum definition. Under the real world definition, they're also not pointless.Quote:
Originally Posted by laura
Proof? There's no point discussin g this if you're just going to speculate :/ If they do brag, why does it matter when the ranking system makes posts worthless? It's their time they're wasting.Quote:
Yes they do.
Clearly you do get my point if you agree posts are worthless. Posting in these threads is forum activity. Trying to divide forum activity into two categories is just stupid, making a new definition of a word when activity means any activity, whether it serves a purpose or not. Also, these threads weren't spammed in. If they were, they weren't doing a very good job at it if the number of posts in these threads are anything to go by, and don't forget Top Posters!Quote:
Don't really get what your point here is. They are superfluous, yes I agree, but they should still reflect a user's actual activity, not the amount one person can spam a thread pointlessly.
They're not pointless... A quick test: What is the point of the "What are you listening to?" thread? Answer: To post what are you listening to. If post counts are keeping people active then they are important to the individual, but in the grand scheme of things, post counts are worthless when put alongside the ranking system. Your argument is full of loopholes as you simply have no evidence to back your claims up, other than what seems to be a hatred towards new members and poor diction.Quote:
So you're suggesting rewarding and congratulating members for spamming with pointless posts? They can still post in them - like you said, post counts aren't important so why would a new member care if their post count went up or not? Your argument is full of loopholes.
I'd like to know where this idea that threads are only there for discussion and that they must promote it comes from. Looking at many of the threads, they all promote discussion simply by existing - reading their titles gives a sense of what the thread is about, you can't write "Let us discuss" in every thread. Also, if the forum is only forum discussion - explain the "Post when Habbo is Down" thread. it doesn't promote discussion under your definition. But of course, you make changes to suit you, as you will no doubt reply to this with "Well it serves a purpose". A huge loophole :PQuote:
If a thread doesn't promote discussion at all, then it is a spam thread, at the end of the day. Threads such as - 'Who is you favourite artist?' would promote discussion (probably) as members could compare and suggest similar artists to people who share a similar music taste.
It's down to the users to create discussion. However, forums aren't only for discussion. Look over the forum and you will see many users make just one post in a thread and leave it at that. They are not engaging in a discussion, but they are sharing ideas, thoughts, interests and hobbies which is what a forum is all about. They are still contributing to the forum by saying what they are listening to, and if they are doing that then the threads clearly have a point to them.
I never said it was. Again, no one boasts about their post count and no-one really spams. There are no actual privileges until you get to around Gold status. If the Top Posters list is anything to go by, most big time posters are posting in other forums than these threads and contributing throughout the forum. Focusing on actual discussion seems pedantic for a forum whose demographic is teenagers - this isn't a specialist forum on a topic, it's a general use forum. Also, are you not just speculating that people are trying to gain extra privileges? Can you provide actual evidence where people are saying they are only doing it for this reason? I suspect you can't.Quote:
As for members who make 1 post then never return to the thread - the change wasn't made because of that; it was made because of the people that post thousands of times in it, boosting their post count so they can get extra privileges, and boast about it to other people. Contributing is fine; spamming is not.
What's the point? Easy, the point of the "post what you are listening to" thread is to "post what you are listening to". The clue is in the title. You seem to be mistaking the word or phrase of having a "point" for some draconian word and meaning. Making up definitions shows a flaw in an argument.Quote:
Think about it - what's the POINT of a 'Post what you're listening to' thread? All other threads have a point - to let people know about the latest Habbo updates; to get help fixing a technology problem; whereas the threads in the Assorted/Misc forum literally have no point to them (aka pointless which is what we class as spam) as the majority of users couldn't give a flying rat's ass what everyone else is listening to.
We did a trial run and found it has no effects. So now we know and I think it should just go back to normal because the General section of the forum looks silly with that extra sub forum.
finally someone in the mod department who has an opinion of their own lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Jordan
I took part in this same discussion not long ago and this is my last post on the matter...Quote:
Originally Posted by GommeInc
@Chris; There were no benefits whatsoever to justify moving those threads, the only possible outcome is that there will be less activity in those threads and therefore on the forum. Seems like a rather pointless decision since you yourself have mentioned that you only moved it for the sake of it. When the older members start dropping off you'll be left with hardly any regular users (this is going to happen regardless of these threads being moved but moving them can only act as a catalyst towards this), there is no possible way moving these threads promote forum activity (which is what you should be focussing on) rather than trying to cater for a couple of members who are annoyed by people 'pointlessly' posting in these threads as apparently there is a large amount of people boosting on here :rolleyes: We can't be picky over quality any more when the userbase is a shadow of its former self.
There's not really much point debating this @GommeInc; as there's an excuse for every logical point.
- There was a poll which favoured keeping the threads where they were
Response A Well they only voted for it to stay so they didn't lose their post count!!! (although there's no evidence to back this statement up whatsoever and even so, the reason doesn't matter considering a poll is to find out the majorities opinion, not the reason behind it)
Response B Well they didn't post in the thread so therefore their opinion is void (it's perfectly acceptable to ignore the silent majority and listen to the few outspoken members)
Response C .#%~ MANAGEMENT HAS FINAL SAY~%#. (we just made a poll for fun :rolleyes: )
That's one thing that is a bit off-putting, it's quite an ugly forum with so few threads :P I've noticed a few people creating threads that could go in there, but they're on-topic in the forums they're posted in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan
Move them back, activity in them has decreased and those who posted them regularly aren't actually bothering to post in other sections like a few of them were previously.
Forum statistics show that post amounts dropped negligibly (In fact it was the first week to not continue falling after the summer holiday boost), as in by 60 posts only, following the creation of the misc forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle
There seems to be a lot of support to have the threads moved back to their right place now. So much for their being no support for keeping them where they were :P The arguments seem far stronger than the odd few who wanted them moved in the first place.
If it doesn't matter where they go why the hell are we still talking about this? :S
The only reason people aren't posting in them is because their post count isn't going up which proves the fact that those threads were used for nothing more than spam, a way to easily gain post count. I'm not fussed if it gets moved back but to me it just doesn't make any sense, most of the posts in the spam forum make more of a discussion than those threads. Can you imagine if your post count went up in spam, how ridiculous would that be?
I totally agree with this if I'm honest. It always used to irritate me when post counts increased for posting in those threads, I mean you could get 35 posts a week from each thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie
I'd say let them stay where they are because, lets be honest, we're not going to see a discussion any time soon in any of them!
They don't generate discussion. They were put in forums, in which the purpose was to discuss things, not to post random song titles and get the post count up. A discussion is generated when two people talk about an issue cohesively.
I like it how it is now, in their own little sub-forum. If people don't post, then it just proves the point about post count.
It's not really any of your business whether other people's post counts increase or not. If it really is irritating to you that people are gaining a higher postcount quicker than you are then you either need to join in or reevaluate your life.Quote:
Originally Posted by runeaddict99
We're certainly not going to be seeing any discussion in them in their current state because they've already been dismissed at pointless threads and placed into what is essentially a forum bin. I don't really know what you mean by "discussion" but surely allowing a user to contribute to a thread in their own way is contribution enough. The change has had no positive impact other than to shut up a couple of whiners. Why shouldn't it be reversed? Poll plz
I can see where your coming from, but I believe that moving the threads has also had no negative impact. Since the threads were moved, I've found that activity in other threads in the Entertainment section (I'm not too sure about others) has increased. As the moving of these threads has caused more discussion elsewhere I could even argue that their movement has had a positive impact on the forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle
As I said, i understand where you are coming from though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle
Hope that clarified it for you on the definition of what a discussion is. A forum is a 'discussion board' (which is also an alternative name for forum); therefore, those threads created no discussion.Quote:
dis·cus·sion/disˈkəSHən/
Noun:
1. The action or process of talking about something, typically in order to reach a decision or to exchange ideas.
2. A conversation or debate about a certain topic.
If you wish to take to what is a discussion further, then I suggest getting an OED is the thing to do.
You can contribute to a thread, but not all threads are on equal leveling with one another. Some take more effort to contribute to, rather than pasting something you're listening to. Thus your argument is completely invalid.
ehhhhhQuote:
Originally Posted by Grig
Every single thread, regardless of whether it's currently in the misc. section or not, is going to have a different baseline as to what is deemed an appropriate contribution - hence the subjective application of the pointless posting rule dependant on what the thread topic is.
I'm just wondering why it should matter whether there is a discussion so long as there is an actual contribution. You yourself may enjoy taking part in and reading proper discussions but other forum members have their own ideas about how they'd like to contribute. Just because you've taken more effort to think about and structure your posts it doesn't give you the right to belittle what others feel they have to offer... especially when it doesn't actually affect you.
Threads like 'What are you watching' get replies such as 'Robin Hood' or 'Harry Potter', both of which are two word answers. This is why I'd see the threads as pointless, and therefore post count should not increase within them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Forum Rules
As I'll say again and again, I see where your coming from, though! :P
The rule was changed after the threads were moved...
As far as I'm aware that rule has been there since I got my mod trial in August. :P
I'm quite sure that there was a section of the rule that gave the sort of threads in misc a certain amount of immunity to the rule dating back to at least 2 years ago. Obviously previous forum management felt that those threads did serve some purpose!Quote:
Originally Posted by runeaddict99
Most threads in this forum do not generate a discussion. It's a point people fail to provide actual evidence for. If a discussion is when two people talk about an issue cohesively, then there are a lot of fake-rule breakers out there. Quite a lot of people make just one post in a thread and never return - that's not a discussion, that's just contribution. How do you entail to enforce this fake-rule that the forum must only be for discussion? Because there are a lot of members not joining in a discussion, they're merely contributing a post and leaving, which is partly what a forum is about (for some reason HxF has this idea that forums are strictly for discussions :S)Quote:
Originally Posted by Grig
Also, I'd like to see the rule which says "You must only use this forum for discussion", because there's a reason there isn't one because it's a rule that cannot be enforced, especially given the definition of discussion you have provided.
As far as I can tell, you think the "Post when Habbo is Down", "Post your Speedtest Results" and the "Post your Desktop/Setup" threads should be in that forum. They clearly do not create discussion, no more than the other threads where there's the odd few members who decide to reply to each other, but that is in itself not a discussion more an acknowledgement. A discussion afterall, by your definition requires the two people to converse about a point to reach a decision or exchange ideas. What most people in these threads are doing is merely acknowledging rather than committing to a discussion. Hence, your logic doesn't really work.
35 posts a week? Pfft, those posts are all worthless - the post ranking system requires a hell of a lot more to actually mean anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by runeaddict99
Also, you quoted Rule A7. A rule which doesn't make these threads pointless. Most of these apparently offensive threads contain more than 2 words. The biggests offender, What are you listening to?, has an average of 5 posts.
Then there's the real life definition of point and pointless, and seeing as these threads all have a purpose then they are clearly not pointless. Again, another claim people forget to provide actual evidence for.
Just a little comment, if 'People are abusing the threads to gain post count' isn't considered a valid reason, how is 'It makes the forum look ugly' a valid reason? The fact is, there are a few sub-forums with less threads than Misc.
Simple. Considering there are now more reasons to move those threads back to their right place than there were to remove them in the first place, that forum is now becoming a bit of an eye sore to look at when that forum has so little threads in there, which is evidence that these sorts of threads can't be that much of a problem if so few exist. Besides, those threads weren't ever abused, as that assumes that people were gaining a lot when actually they weren't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kardan
I assume the other forums which lack threads you are thinking of are the Debates Forum? Official debates are removed from that when they are over.
The Misc. forums only reason to exist is to please very few people whose original reasons are becoming less valid by the day, especially when those people either:
Misread forum rules
Forgot the meanings of words
Forget that these threads are common place
Aren't aware that the forum is filled with threads that lack discussion
Forget what a forum actually is; OR
Simply have something against other members and are trying to impose their half-baked views on them when the reality is that these threads do no actual harm to the forum.
They were abused for years and people would frequently rack up 5+ posts in each a day. Just because you didn't notice doesn't make the point less valid.Quote:
Originally Posted by GommeInc
---------- Post added 20-10-2012 at 03:11 PM ----------
It was not, I have complained about the threads for several years and throughout the entire time that specific rule changed once to allow people to confirm other people's conclusions with "I agree" or "This is a good idea".Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle
http://i.imgur.com/fxIvE.pngQuote:
Originally Posted by Kyle
If people don't post in them just because their post count doesn't go up it just proves what the use of the thread was for :P
People are still posting in them, just not as much. As has been stated numerous times already - why should it matter to you or anyone else what other people are doing to contribute to the forum activity, so long as it instils them with a sense that they at least belong to the community and are actively posting within its boards. Better that than alienate users by moving threads they enjoy posting in to a subsection of the forum whose purpose is to collect threads deemed too worthless to deserve a post count!Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie
The thing is I quite frankly couldn't give a crap if post count went up in them or not I just find it to be pointless if they did. It'd be like arguing ALTHOUGH SPAM POSTS ARE POINTLESS WE SHOULD ALLOW POST COUNT TO GAIN BECAUSE THEY'RE CONTRIBUTING IN THEIR OWN WAY.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle
5 posts :O Oh the damage to the system! 5 posts isn't a lot, and it's certainly not abuse at all. The ranking system doesn't give posts a lot of value and 5 posts a day is completely worthless...Quote:
Originally Posted by Chippiewill
Honestly, why do people think these threads were abused, then state such miniscule numbers? It's ridiculous and doesn't prove a point.
You seem to have overlooked the + sign he used, i'd say 5 posts is generous.Quote:
Originally Posted by GommeInc
Add a zero and it wouldn't even be a concern, but 5+ hints that it's not that much more than 5 :/ Besides, the threads don't have that many posts in. The "What are you listening to? #2" thread had approx. 24920 posts and is 7 years old. A simple bit of maths returns a rather surprising result:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
365 x 7 = 2555
24920 divided by 2555 = 9.76 (posts a day).
If we're panicking about 9.76 posts a day in one thread posted in by a large number of users, I think we should all have our heads examined :/ 24920 posts out of the total forum count (7,100,000) really isn't that impressive. Unfortunately, factual information seems to be swept under the carpet :/
Plus the way people are acting, there should be loads of members in the Platinum rank, or at least high up in the ranking system, but all the Top Posters are active throughout the forum. Again, another fact swept away by misguided opinions and subjective thinking.
EDIT: This thread is technically more active than these supposedly abused threads. If this thread keeps being posted in at its current rate, it will reach 687,527 in 7 years.
For a lot of those 7 years it was locked, Jin put it into use when the original thread got too large (Way, way larger than 24920 posts)Quote:
Originally Posted by GommeInc
If that were the case then what about THIS thread?Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
send your apologies to my inbox. HAH. love you :(.
"IDGAF" which is what the link you have posted is about is already mentioned in the FAQ :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Casanova
I'm going to be honest on this one, i forget what I was discussing but if I remember rightly lee was giving someone into trouble/had done/was saying abbreviations aren't allowed. You had already agreed unless it's targetting someone or offensive TO someone it's acceptable. so I can't say "I don't give a fu._ck" but I can say IDGAF. or FS or FFS but not fu._cksake or for fu_.cksake.Quote:
Originally Posted by xxMATTGxx
just shove em all in spam and be done with it already
What I don't understand is why some threads go to spam... Loads involve quite interesting discussions and could sit comfortably in other forums. It's all the more puzzling when the forum desc. says: "A place for pointless threads and posts", yet these threads have a point and a purpose. It completely voids the opinions of the few in this thread which believe this forum should only be for discussions and any threads that do not promote discussion must be moved to Spam or the Misc Forum, yet the Spam forum is rife with topical, interesting threads worthy of position in the rest of the forum.
There was an autism one which was quite interesting which was in spam, and that could of been in Discuss Anything because it was about taking a survey to find out how autistic you are, and there was a lot of discussion. A Halloween thread made in Spam could be in Discuss Anything, as it's obviously discussing Halloween ( @Rozi is asking people to post their costumes, their activities etc). Someone said they were losing their Frankies and Benny's virginity, and that thread was filled with people sharing their views on the restaurant.
The spam forum seems to be the Discuss Anything forum by another name, and is testament to how useless posts must be if people are willing to post threads in that forum where posts don't count. The mind really does boggle. It makes me wonder you have all the forums when the Spam forum clearly is its own culture, and why it's even called the Spam forum when many threads in that forum aren't spam :P
I think in my case with the Frankie and Bennys thread I honestly thought it would be derailed quickly and I knew in spam I'd get quick responses (quicker than other forums in some case). Nor did I know discussion would be made from it. I do see your point though, more so with some threads than others.Quote:
Originally Posted by GommeInc
Indeed, it just seems strange that people immediately post in there to get a response. Obviously it's not your fault as it seems to be a problem with the forum in general, people are keeping to the Spam forum for some reason :P It's as if the rest of the forum is unwelcoming and useless. It's even more puzzling when management change the way people post threads for the sake of discussion and post counts, when post counts clearly aren't worth a lot to people if they're happy to post in the Spam forum, incl. useful and interesting threads. It's sort of double standards, or the head not knowing what the foot is doing :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Samanfa