The BNP - Good or Bad?

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Originally Posted by SauravG

No I was proving my point regarding Nick Griffin. You didnt care he denies the holocaust even though its a documented part of history so why do you care about what I say? Its freedom of speech.

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I said it was his right, just as its your right to say what you want. The point is, you are making it all up and I am challenging you on these issues yet you don't seem to have a credible response at all, and have just admitted that you make it up.

If Nick Griffin was on here posting that the holocaust did not happen I would be posting asking him for evidence and for him to debate it.

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And no, Mr. Corbett has put together that document in an excellent way and it doesn't need explaining. You are just annoyed because it shows very clearly why UKIP are racists and clearly dumb.

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You will not quote it, maybe its because it turns out you have only read a page or so of the document as Jordy has just quoted yourself stating that (and this is what you yourself said only a few minutes ago) *REMOVED*

Edit by Sammeth. (Assistant General Manager): Please don't post private information, including all or parts of private messages.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

I said it was his right, just as its your right to say what you want. The point is, you are making it all up and I am challenging you on these issues yet you don't seem to have a credible response at all, and have just admitted that you make it up.

If Nick Griffin was on here posting that the holocaust did not happen I would be posting asking him for evidence and for him to debate it.



You will not quote it, maybe its because it turns out you have only read a page or so of the document as Jordy has just quoted yourself stating that (and this is what you yourself said only a few minutes ago) "Do you honestly think I care about that document? I haven't even read more than a page of it."

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Its my right to say what I want. Glad we agree on that. Thus I shouldn't need to answer to your challeneges and neither should you challenge me as its my right to say it as long as I am not spreading hatred :)

And thanks for posting part of a PM on the forum and breaking yet more rules :) My PM to Sammeth. is building up very nicely indeed.

And I said that to Jordy as the guy has no idea what he is on about. I will not quote it? There is nothing to quote :S You seriously seem to not understand. If you are that desperate, you can see all the quotes, reply to each of them then :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by SauravG

Its my right to say what I want. Glad we agree on that. Thus I shouldn't need to answer to your challeneges and neither should you challenge me as its my right to say it as long as I am not spreading hatred :)

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I can, should and will challenge you because it shows that a) you are making it up as you go along & b) it's the opposite from the truth anyway.

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And I said that to Jordy as the guy has no idea what he is on about. I will not quote it? There is nothing to quote :S You seriously seem to not understand. If you are that desperate, you can see all the quotes, reply to each of them then :rolleyes:

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I wouldn't say that Jordy doesn't know what he's on about when you yourself are claming Corbett has written an excellent document yet it turns out you haven't read it anyway. ..and yet you still refuse to quote the document.

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Originally Posted by SauravG

Its my right to say what I want. Glad we agree on that. Thus I shouldn't need to answer to your challeneges and neither should you challenge me as its my right to say it as long as I am not spreading hatred :)

And thanks for posting part of a PM on the forum and breaking yet more rules :) My PM to Sammeth. is building up very nicely indeed.

And I said that to Jordy as the guy has no idea what he is on about. I will not quote it? There is nothing to quote :S You seriously seem to not understand. If you are that desperate, you can see all the quotes, reply to each of them then :rolleyes:

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What do you mean I don't understand? Why should we quote them all and argue, seeing as you refuse to argue back and haven't read it 'allegedly' anyway.

In what way do I have no idea what I am on about? I know that document in your signature is complete rubbish and specifically pointed it out to you how it is, yet you refuse to argue back or even comment on the document.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

I can, should and will challenge you because it shows that a) you are making it up as you go along & b) it's the opposite from the truth anyway.



I wouldn't say that Jordy doesn't know what he's on about when you yourself are claming Corbett has written an excellent document yet it turns out you haven't read it anyway. ..and yet you still refuse to quote the document.

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I have read it hence I am able to post what I did. Going by Jordy's PM, he clearly seems to think he is above everyone else and he is cleverer.

I have said several times, and you fail to understand for whatever reason, why don't you start debating his quotes. Why not? Because you obviously cannot and know for a fact that Mr. Corbett is correct and that UKIP are racists.

And thus let the battle commence.

Regarding the Holocaust denial, (which I've been mentoining a lot) I thought you needed evidence to accuse someone? Am I not correct?

What evidence do they have?

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Originally Posted by Ardemax

And thus let the battle commence.

Regarding the Holocaust denial, (which I've been mentoining a lot) I thought you needed evidence to accuse someone? Am I not correct?

What evidence do they have?

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Evidence is only required when you accuse UKIP of something. Even when the evidence is there, they refuse to believe it :)

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Originally Posted by SauravG

I have read it hence I am able to post what I did. Going by Jordy's PM, he clearly seems to think he is above everyone else and he is cleverer.

I have said several times, and you fail to understand for whatever reason, why don't you start debating his quotes. Why not? Because you obviously cannot and know for a fact that Mr. Corbett is correct and that UKIP are racists.

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..because i'm not the one claiming UKIP are racist and homophobic.

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Originally Posted by Ardemax

And thus let the battle commence.

Regarding the Holocaust denial, (which I've been mentoining a lot) I thought you needed evidence to accuse someone? Am I not correct?

What evidence do they have?

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We didn't say you need evidence to accuse someone, but as shown by this debate, if you don't have evidence or at least, evidence with any solid foundations then you don't have a point to put across at all.

The holocaust deniers claim the gas chambers and so forth were built after the war when the allies landed in the camps, but this of course is rubbish and I could be debating with anyone who denied the holocaust as i'm sure would others if that did occur.

We're not saying because Saurav is against UKIP he shouldn't be allowed to speak, all i'm asking for is for him to back up his side of the debate, and if he could he could well convince me. If i'm wrong I accept it.

Well I think the document pretty much lists why UKIP are whatever I claim they are. It has backed it up with quotes from higher level members of the party along with credible sources. If anything on there was incorrect, he would have been sue'd by now.

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Originally Posted by SauravG

Well I think the document pretty much lists why UKIP are whatever I claim they are. It has backed it up with quotes from higher level members of the party along with credible sources. If anything on there was incorrect, he would have been sue'd by now.

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If it is all credible and trustworthy then why can you not quote this and explain how and why UKIP are racist and homophobic. I know you've just read the full document in the past few minutes but I have read it too, and if it had any real credible backup then I myself would be questioning UKIP.

I am not UKIP forever, if they do things I disagree with I would remove my support from them, just as I have with the Conservatives under David Cameron. On the sueing part, i'm sure UKIP have better things to spend their small budget on than former federalist Labour MEPs' posting documents on the internet which have no credibility what so ever.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

If it is all credible and trustworthy then why can you not quote this and explain how and why UKIP are racist and homophobic. I know you've just read the full document in the past few minutes but I have read it too, and if it had any real credible backup then I myself would be questioning UKIP.

I am not UKIP forever, if they do things I disagree with I would remove my support from them, just as I have with the Conservatives under David Cameron. On the sueing part, i'm sure UKIP have better things to spend their small budget on than former federalist Labour MEPs' posting documents on the internet which have no credibility what so ever.

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And how do you know I have read the whole document in the past few minutes? I haven't even opened it since the day I first linked to it. Shows how ignorant you are.
And again, I dont understand why you fail to understand it yet again, the document is clearly listing why UKIP are racist and homophobic and extremely dumb so why do I need to :S It would be me repeating what the author has written which would be a waste of my time.

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We didn't say you need evidence to accuse someone, but as shown by this debate, if you don't have evidence or at least, evidence with any solid foundations then you don't have a point to put across at all.

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Well you indirectly did when we debated on the holocaust and Mr. Griffins opinions. However, it obviously doesn't apply when a person accuses UKIP of something.
You seem to deny everything when its proved wrong. I remember earlier in this debate, you made a claim, and then fully contradicted it minutes later and when someone pointed it out, you made an excuse.
And you/Jordy (or both) say I cant argue or debate. I am not the one dodging questions or contradicting myself. You have read the document like you said, so you should be able to explain the quotes.

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Originally Posted by SauravG

And how do you know I have read the whole document in the past few minutes? I haven't even opened it since the day I first linked to it. Shows how ignorant you are.
And again, I dont understand why you fail to understand it yet again, the document is clearly listing why UKIP are racist and homophobic and extremely dumb so why do I need to :S It would be me repeating what the author has written which would be a waste of my time.

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You evidently haven't read the document fully because you are so relucant to quote from it, or provide it as any evidence to why the UK Independance Party is remotely racist or homophobic at all. It wouldn't be a waste, it would show that you yourself can think for yourself and back up your own opinions and would also put me and UKIP in the spotlight as I would be the one having to explain the quotes/evidence, not you.

Can you see where the thread has gone now? - its gone from a healthy debate about BNP/racism/UKIP to a debate about why you won't post simple quotes. It totally ruins it.

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Well you indirectly did when we debated on the holocaust and Mr. Griffins opinions. However, it obviously doesn't apply when a person accuses UKIP of something.
You seem to deny everything when its proved wrong. I remember earlier in this debate, you made a claim, and then fully contradicted it minutes later and when someone pointed it out, you made an excuse.
And you/Jordy (or both) say I cant argue or debate. I am not the one dodging questions or contradicting myself. You have read the document like you said, so you should be able to explain the quotes.

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I got one thing in this thread wrong, and I admitted it yeah I have no problem with it. A member posted where I had contradicted myself and hands up, I was wrong. On this however, I am not wrong. Can I ask; what questions have I dodged?

Oh and from earlier on.. where have UKIP said they will raise taxes? - oh wait you already freely admitted you made that up.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

We didn't say you need evidence to accuse someone, but as shown by this debate, if you don't have evidence or at least, evidence with any solid foundations then you don't have a point to put across at all.

The holocaust deniers claim the gas chambers and so forth were built after the war when the allies landed in the camps, but this of course is rubbish and I could be debating with anyone who denied the holocaust as i'm sure would others if that did occur.

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Exactly... solid evidence. So why does one stick up for those who deny it?

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

You evidently haven't read the document fully

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Congratulations on repeating what I said. Where have I said I have read it all? If I remember correctly, it was you who said "I know you've just read the full document in the past few minutes"

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Originally Posted by Ardemax

Exactly... solid evidence. So why does one stick up for those who deny it?

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I'm not sticking up for their opinion as Sergio said earlier, I was sticking up for their right to air their opinion.

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Congratulations on repeating what I said. Where have I said I have read it all? If I remember correctly, it was you who said "I know you've just read the full document in the past few minutes"

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Ok then you haven't read all the document, which again casts even more doubt on how you can call UKIP racist and homophobic.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

I'm not sticking up for their opinion as Sergio said earlier, I was sticking up for their right to air their opinion.



Ok then you haven't read all the document, which again casts even more doubt on how you can call UKIP racist and homophobic.

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I haven't read the whole document but I have read the main points concerning racism and how they are homophobic. The document has a contents page and I read the points which were of interest to me by going directly to the relevant pages.

And again, it is my right to say:

UKIP are going to raise taxes, make people pay for education, introduce more taxes, ban under 30's from driving. You should not question it (like you indirectly said we shouldn't question Mr. Griffin) as its my right to voice these opinions.

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Originally Posted by SauravG

ban under 30's from diving

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What will Tom Daly do?!?!?!?! :(

Apologies, I meant driving not diving. But yes, UKIP will ban swimming pools :( why? because their leader cant swim and is jealous.

I think I have got my point across.

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Originally Posted by SauravG

I haven't read the whole document but I have read the main points concerning racism and how they are homophobic. The document has a contents page and I read the points which were of interest to me by going directly to the relevant pages.

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aka you saw the words racism and homophobic and latched onto it.

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And again, it is my right to say:

UKIP are going to raise taxes, make people pay for education, introduce more taxes, ban under 30's from driving. You should not question it (like you indirectly said we shouldn't question Mr. Griffin) as its my right to voice these opinions.

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UKIP won't raise taxes, won't make education private and i'm fairly sure they don't have a under 30's ban. Why? - because thats not their policy.

Indeed it is, your right to voice these opinions, and i'm debuckling those opinions as that is what a debate is - just like I debuckled them a few lines up. On Griffin I never ever said we should not question Nick Griffin and his views on the holocaust.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

aka you saw the words racism and homophobic and latched onto it.

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Your replies are almost predictable now. I read other topics too but I believe these two were more important.

Look, I tell you what, I will point out some quotes for you so that you can fulfill your wish to defend them. I will be immensely shocked if you write anything other than "how do I know it can be trusted" because these things are indefensible.

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Nigel Farage (UKIP MEP since 1999, leader of the UKIP group of MEPs in the
European Parliament since 2004; former UKIP Chairman, 1998-2000 and cofounder,
UKIP) told former UKIP leader Dr Alan Sked “We will never win the
****** vote. The ******* will never vote for us”, according to Dr Sked.

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You cannot say that is not racist, those terms are not allowed hence i've starred them out, however if you refer to the document you can find the terms.

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Frank Maloney (UKIP candidate in the 2004 London mayoral election) commented
that he would not be campaigning in Camden because there are “too many gays”.
He said “I don’t want to campaign around gays… I don’t think they do a lot for
society”. Protesting that he was not homophobic, Maloney then added “In public
let’s live a proper moral life – I think that’s important”.

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Homphobic wouldn't you say?

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Dr Alan Sked (founder leader of UKIP, 1993-97) has told us that when it comes to
immigration policy, “UKIP is even less liberal than the BNP. Certainly, there is a
symbiosis between elements of the parties”.

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Said by the founder, I mean can you get deeper into a parties roots than that? All these quotes have a date and issue related to them, i'm sure if you were that concerned over their reliability you could source out the archives for such things.

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Originally Posted by Tash.

Look, I tell you what, I will point out some quotes for you so that you can fulfill your wish to defend them. I will be immensely shocked if you write anything other than "how do I know it can be trusted" because these things are indefensible.



You cannot say that is not racist, those terms are not allowed hence i've starred them out, however if you refer to the document you can find the terms.




Homphobic wouldn't you say?



Said by the founder, I mean can you get deeper into a parties roots than that? All these quotes have a date and issue related to them, i'm sure if you were that concerned over their reliability you could source out the archives for such things.

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I can see the reply being "these are opinions of the individual and not the parties"
But if your higher level party leaders believe in such terrible things then these will surely influence the parties decisions. If someone disagrees then :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Tash.

Look, I tell you what, I will point out some quotes for you so that you can fulfill your wish to defend them. I will be immensely shocked if you write anything other than "how do I know it can be trusted" because these things are indefensible.

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The majority of them can't be trusted, hence why the main Labour Party and others do not refer to UKIP as racist, because it isn't racist.

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You cannot say that is not racist, those terms are not allowed hence i've starred them out, however if you refer to the document you can find the terms.

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I simply do not believe that. Although if Nigel Farage did say them words then a poor choice of words, but the fact is; UKIP would never get the immigration vote because UKIP wants to stop immigration. If Farage had said that then he wouldn't be invited (quite frequently) onto TV/have such a respectable place among media circles such as the Telegraphy. If you can find more evidence on this claim then i'd be happy to read it and very interested aswell.

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Homphobic wouldn't you say?

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I would not say that was homophobic, I don't agree with gay marriage and although i'm gay myself, I know some people aren't comfortable/happy with the idea of homosexuality - its how they've been brought up and their opinion, they are doing me no malice.

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Said by the founder, I mean can you get deeper into a parties roots than that? All these quotes have a date and issue related to them, i'm sure if you were that concerned over their reliability you could source out the archives for such things.

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Dr Alan Sked if anyone actually has read anything on him, hates UKIP and doesn't get along well with them, hence why he fell out with them. Therefore he will say these things won't he. I think the cxlear difference between the UKIP immigration policy and the BNP immigration policy are these;

• Policy not based on race (UKIP)
• Policy based on race (BNP)
• Temporary 5-year blanket ban on immigration (UKIP)
• Permanent ban on immigration (BNP)

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Originally Posted by SauravG

I can see the reply being "these are opinions of the individual and not the parties"
But if your higher level party leaders believe in such terrible things then these will surely influence the parties decisions. If someone disagrees then :rolleyes:

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Do not get involved, you had numerous chances to quote the document but failed at every chance you got.

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The majority of them can't be trusted

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I simply do not believe that.

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Why do you ask us to quote things and reply with such crap as that?
Like I said, if the quotes were false, the author would have been sue'd by now or been forced to remove the false quote and issue a formal apology.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

The majority of them can't be trusted, hence why the main Labour Party and others do not refer to UKIP as racist, because it isn't racist.

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The point is that these were all once members of UKIP and something within that parties manifest made these people join. So, what is it within UKIP that apparently attracts people who in your words "can't be trusted"?

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

I simply do not believe that. Although if Nigel Farage did say them words then a poor choice of words, but the fact is; UKIP would never get the immigration vote because UKIP wants to stop immigration. If Farage had said that then he wouldn't be invited (quite frequently) onto TV/have such a respectable place among media circles such as the Telegraphy. If you can find more evidence on this claim then i'd be happy to read it and very interested aswell.

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I can't see how you can deny he said it. As people have said before, that is a pretty bad quote. If the paper in question had printed him saying such things then do you not imagine he may have sued them for libel? It's not something you'd just let go if you know you've not said it.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

I would not say that was homophobic, I don't agree with gay marriage and although i'm gay myself, I know some people aren't comfortable/happy with the idea of homosexuality - its how they've been brought up and their opinion, they are doing me no malice.

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Perhaps not directly, but do you not realise that by denouncing those who are gay they are almost ridiculing your choices in life? It seems to me that you don't let many things bother you, and more power to you if thats true. But the fact is that some people will find that deeply offensive to the way they wish to live their lives.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

Dr Alan Sked if anyone actually has read anything on him, hates UKIP and doesn't get along well with them, hence why he fell out with them. Therefore he will say these things won't he. I think the cxlear difference between the UKIP immigration policy and the BNP immigration policy are these;

• Policy not based on race (UKIP)
• Policy based on race (BNP)
• Temporary 5-year blanket ban on immigration (UKIP)
• Permanent ban on immigration (BNP)

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Again, he may now dislike UKIP but he founded the party and you cannot tell me that every single aspect or ideal that he instilled into it is gone? Therefore the party is based upon a founder who is admitting that the party is now in the grips of having similarities with the BNP. No link with the BNP is a positive one.

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Originally Posted by SauravG

Why do you ask us to quote things and reply with such crap as that?
Like I said, if the quotes were false, the author would have been sue'd by now or been forced to remove the false quote and issue a formal apology.

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I gave more than that of a reply, now you refused to quote or even explain why UKIP were racist/homophobic, or has the fact Tash is here changed it all I wonder.

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Originally Posted by Tash.

The point is that these were all once members of UKIP and something within that parties manifest made these people join. So, what is it within UKIP that apparently attracts people who in your words "can't be trusted"?

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Euro-sceptics are attracted to UKIP, UKIP was founded as a Tory-Bruges cut off group but was supposed to have the single purpose of opposition to the European Union while uniting all from left to right, whereas the Bruges group was famously to the right.

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I can't see how you can deny he said it. As people have said before, that is a pretty bad quote. If the paper in question had printed him saying such things then do you not imagine he may have sued them for libel? It's not something you'd just let go if you know you've not said it.

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I want to see evidence that Farage said this, he's not at all the type of man who would put race on people. If he did, it was a off-comment - a comment most people have said one or two times before.

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Perhaps not directly, but do you not realise that by denouncing those who are gay they are almost ridiculing your choices in life? It seems to me that you don't let many things bother you, and more power to you if thats true. But the fact is that some people will find that deeply offensive to the way they wish to live their lives.

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Gay isn't a choice. On if they are offended, if they are offended then so be it. Live with it i'd say to them. The man in question (if he said this) said nothing homophobic what so ever.

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Again, he may now dislike UKIP but he founded the party and you cannot tell me that every single aspect or ideal that he instilled into it is gone? Therefore the party is based upon a founder who is admitting that the party is now in the grips of having similarities with the BNP. No link with the BNP is a positive one.

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I can, the party is nothing like it was a few years ago. UKIP was merely a pressure group a few years ago, under Farage its become more mainstream (coming 2nd in the last election in this country) and has become far more professional in its methods of campaigning. On the link with the BNP, yes a link with the BNP can be good, both oppose mass-immigration. I find that common sense, although I do not approve of basing immigration policy on race like the BNP does.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

I gave more than that of a reply, now you refused to quote or even explain why UKIP were racist/homophobic, or has the fact Tash is here changed it all I wonder.

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Like I have said several times now, I did not see the point in copying and pasting stuff from the document when you can clearly use your eyes and see them for yourself and you have seen it as you said you have read it. All Tash has done is copied and pasted the quotes as you are too ignorant.

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Originally Posted by SauravG

Like I have said several times now, I did not see the point in copying and pasting stuff from the document when you can clearly use your eyes and see them for yourself and you have seen it as you said you have read it. All Tash has done is copied and pasted the quotes as you are too ignorant.

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No Tash is discussing it, as am I. You are still going on about links. You didn't want to discuss it, end of.

No she has just copied and pasted the quotes and you just refuse to believe them as we both predicted, so you are just wasting our time by telling us to pick a quote to debate when you simply refuse to believe it. That is a very poor debating skill which you seem to have.

Like we have said several times, if those quotes were false, the author would have been sue'd by now and asked to make a formal apology as well as remove the quote.

So if you're saying I can openly deny something without solid evidence then I could deny anything? What about if there's rock hard evidence?

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Originally Posted by SauravG

No she has just copied and pasted the quotes and you just refuse to believe them as we both predicted, so you are just wasting our time by telling us to pick a quote to debate when you simply refuse to believe it. That is a very poor debating skill which you seem to have.

Like we have said several times, if those quotes were false, the author would have been sue'd by now and asked to make a formal apology as well as remove the quote.

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Do not talk about debating skills with me, you refused to take part time and time again and now Tash is putting together a well-contructed side of the debate, you seem to want to get in on that. IF Nigel Farage HAD said that - do you not think for one minute that when he was on any program such as Question Time another MP/MEP/writer would of picked up on this and attacked him with it? - nobody has which points to it being simply not true.

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Originally Posted by Ardemax

So if you're saying I can openly deny something without solid evidence then I could deny anything? What about if there's rock hard evidence?

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If there is rock hard evidence, you can still deny it but everyone else can see its true, as is the case with the holocaust.

No, I had provided you with the evidence, but as predicted you just refuse to believe it, so I didnt see the point. Tash only quoted it in hope that you will stop re-posting what you have been doing. I have always answered your points, showed you the quotes and you just wanted me to copy and paste them. Whats the point in that? :S Thats just a waste of time.

Yes, ofcourse they are going to ask the person the same question everytime :rolleyes:
Its most likely he made up an excuse for it and the media cant be bothered arguing on it now.

Oh and heres a quote

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Frank Maloney (UKIP candidate in the 2004 London mayoral election) commented
that he would not be campaigning in Camden because there are “too many gays”.
He said “I don’t want to campaign around gays… I don’t think they do a lot for
society”. Protesting that he was not homophobic, Maloney then added “In public
let’s live a proper moral life – I think that’s important”.

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Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3666155.stm

So thats not homophobic or have the BBC made the news up? Or both? :rolleyes:

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Godfrey Bloom (UKIP MEP since 2004) has notoriously declared: “No selfrespecting
small businessman with a brain in the right place would ever employ a
lady of child-bearing age”. He applied for a place on the Women’s Rights
Committee of the European Parliament, saying “I am here to represent Yorkshire
women who always have dinner on the table when you get home. I am going to
promote men’s rights”. He wanted to deal with women’s issues because “I just
don’t think they clean behind the fridge enough”.

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Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programme...st/3912385.stm

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Steve Reed has also stated: “[‘Renewable resources’] are not renewable… Taking
energy from winds and tides irreversibly enervates the weather system and slows
the rotation of the Earth”.

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Source: http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/lette...inst.833678.jp

This guy is an absolute moron. Why would anyone want these idiots running the country?

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When Robert Kilroy-Silk was due to appear on BBC 1’s Question Time as a UKIP
candidate for the 2004 European elections, UKIP’s campaign office e-mailed its
supporters with this request: “We urgently need articulate members to be in the
audience for the above event. BUT DON’T LET ON YOU’RE UKIP!”

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Source: http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/a...-tricks-row.do

Thats just lame and idiotic.

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No, I had provided you with the evidence, but as predicted you just refuse to believe it, so I didnt see the point. Tash only quoted it in hope that you will stop re-posting what you have been doing. I have always answered your points, showed you the quotes and you just wanted me to copy and paste them. Whats the point in that? :S Thats just a waste of time.

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..because as I have said before, the Corbett document is utter rubbish, as shown by the stuff you've just posted below, half these things aren't remotely racist and the claims that Nigel Farage said that cannot even be backed up at all, hence why nobody has ever called him a racist.

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Yes, ofcourse they are going to ask the person the same question everytime :rolleyes:
Its most likely he made up an excuse for it and the media cant be bothered arguing on it now.

Oh and heres a quote

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Oh the media can't be bothered oh yes its all Farage and UKIP V you isn't it. Excuses, excuses.

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Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3666155.stm

So thats not homophobic or have the BBC made the news up? Or both? :rolleyes:

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That's not remotely homophobic.

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Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programme...st/3912385.stm

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He supports the old-fashioned family view of women - and? :S

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Source: http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/lette...inst.833678.jp

This guy is an absolute moron. Why would anyone want these idiots running the country?

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His opinion, not UKIP policy. We already have idiots such as Gordon Brown giving away billions upon billions to fight non-existant climate change while we have old people dying in poor care which is utterly disgusting. Today we have more cuts to the military as our men and women are dying while in war - its disgusting yet because its Labour, don't mention hey?

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Source: http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/a...-tricks-row.do

Thats just lame and idiotic.

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Do you know why that is? - because just like the BNP was treated on Question Time they feared they would get the same treatment. The main parties used to call UKIP racist etc when it was smaller back in 2004.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

..because as I have said before, the Corbett document is utter rubbish, as shown by the stuff you've just posted below, half these things aren't remotely racist and the claims that Nigel Farage said that cannot even be backed up at all, hence why nobody has ever called him a racist.



Oh the media can't be bothered oh yes its all Farage and UKIP V you isn't it. Excuses, excuses.



That's not remotely homophobic.



He supports the old-fashioned family view of women - and? :S



His opinion, not UKIP policy. We already have idiots such as Gordon Brown giving away billions upon billions to fight non-existant climate change while we have old people dying in poor care which is utterly disgusting. Today we have more cuts to the military as our men and women are dying while in war - its disgusting yet because its Labour, don't mention hey?





Do you know why that is? - because just like the BNP was treated on Question Time they feared they would get the same treatment. The main parties used to call UKIP racist etc when it was smaller back in 2004.

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Not remotely homophobic? Are you kidding me? Your counter arguments are pathetic!
So you are saying if UKIP get in power and the old fashioned leaders made it so woman didn't have equal rights, you wouldn't care? :rolleyes: Political parties need to adapt to the modern culture. Parties such as UKIP don't and hence they fail.

And are you saying the climate isn't changing? If yes then gosh, its the biggest load of crap I have heard this month.

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Originally Posted by SauravG

Not remotely homophobic? Are you kidding me? Your counter arguments are pathetic!
So you are saying if UKIP get in power and the old fashioned leaders made it so woman didn't have equal rights, you wouldn't care? :rolleyes: Political parties need to adapt to the modern culture. Parties such as UKIP don't and hence they fail.

And are you saying the climate isn't changing? If yes then gosh, its the biggest load of crap I have heard this month.

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How is that homophobic, infact out of the two of us I think i'm best placed to decide whether thats homophobic. You would suit being a euro/burocrat because you seem to think that the smallest things said are offensive to minority groups from the big bad UKIP. Where is the malice in what that man said?

They haven't said women won't have equal rights, although if you could find that in their policies then that would be fantastic i'm sure. He has merely said that in his opinion he prefers the old family style, and by the looks of it was taking the micky out of the EU/Government equality bodies which are set up at the cost of hundreds, if not billions of pounds a year.

Can you give me examples of climate change please.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

How is that homophobic, infact out of the two of us I think i'm best placed to decide whether thats homophobic. You would suit being a euro/burocrat because you seem to think that the smallest things said are offensive to minority groups from the big bad UKIP. Where is the malice in what that man said?

They haven't said women won't have equal rights, although if you could find that in their policies then that would be fantastic i'm sure. He has merely said that in his opinion he prefers the old family style, and by the looks of it was taking the micky out of the EU/Government equality bodies which are set up at the cost of hundreds, if not billions of pounds a year.

Can you give me examples of climate change please.

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http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...icle852640.ece

Antarctica, the ice melting along with the weather changes the UK has experienced over the last decade. More floods etc.
Denying global warming really is like denying that the earth is round :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Ardemax

So if you're saying I can openly deny something without solid evidence then I could deny anything? What about if there's rock hard evidence?

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:eusa_clap

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Originally Posted by SauravG

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...icle852640.ece

Antarctica, the ice melting along with the weather changes the UK has experienced over the last decade. More floods etc.
Denying global warming really is like denying that the earth is round :rolleyes:

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Nobody is disputing the Earth's natural cycle of warming up over a long period of time but that's all it is, a natural cycle. A few generations of humans are barely going to scratch the surface in affecting it and they sure as hell can't do **** all to prevent it, even though this Government are quite happy to make naive people like you think so and take your money in the meantime.

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Originally Posted by SauravG

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...icle852640.ece

Antarctica, the ice melting along with the weather changes the UK has experienced over the last decade. More floods etc.
Denying global warming really is like denying that the earth is round :rolleyes:

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What weather changes have we experienced?

Floods - oh wait thats what happens when you build next to a river or on a flood plain.
Cold summers - oh wait thats what we've always had.
Hot days - oh wait thats what we've always had.

..and no it isn't, especially considering the fact that a few weeks ago a high profile study group on climate change were found out to be fiddling their figures.

Have I ever said anything along the lines of

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affecting it and they sure as hell can't do **** all to prevent it, even though this Government are quite happy to make naive people like you think so and take your money in the meantime.

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No. Stop being ignorant which you clearly are. Undertaker denied that the climate was changing. Now the political policies concerning it is a different matter. I think its you and undertaker who are the naive one here and hence he is so crap at debates (as he has demonstrated in this one). He comes out with laughable replies and then refuses to believe the facts.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

What weather changes have we experienced?

Floods - oh wait thats what happens when you build next to a river or on a flood plain.
Cold summers - oh wait thats what we've always had.
Hot days - oh wait thats what we've always had.

..and no it isn't, especially considering the fact that a few weeks ago a high profile study group on climate change were found out to be fiddling their figures.

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In Manchester, it used to snow in December. Now it snows in March/April. I think that clearly shows it. There are more floods now.
And would you please link me to this thing which you refer to regarding the numbers being fiddled.

Its a scientific fact that the climate is changing. The ice isn't melting of its own in the Antarctica you know :rolleyes:.