A Proposal.

Now, I realise this is quite an extreme proposal, but at least it will settle once and for all the debate about moderators.

What I propose, is that for a full week, all the moderators become normal members / do not do any moderation, because quite frankly I'm getting pissed off with people not realising the kind of work they do.

Obviously this is just an experiment, so people will finally realise how hard it would be to use the forum without sufficient moderation.

And then maybe this will get the moderators the recognition and praise that they deserve (see my resignation thread)

Cheers for reading,
Sam.

I would be well up for that, but imagine the sort of stuff that would go on! :P

That would be my point exactly :)

looool bad idea
people fighting
scripters etc...

Scripters? You don't have to worry about that HBK, you can't script on a forum. :P

:P
thats not the point
and what about malicious codes...?

I know, there could be bullying, posting of porn, hacking accounts and all the autoban hackers like Qamp, Dlox could come back and start causing trouble. It would be really cool to see what would happen and how everyone got on without moderators but imagine the clean-up afterwards.

I voted no... Imagine the carnage! I don't even think there's justification for it, it's not like the majority have said "Moderators do absolutely nothing."

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Originally Posted by heart break kid

looool bad idea
people fighting
scripters etc...

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Moderators are too strict, remember?

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Originally Posted by heart break kid

:P
thats not the point
and what about malicious codes...?

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Obviously there would still be admins and stuff to deal with that, and Smods. They just wouldn't deal with the majority of stuff.

Obviously there would need to be some moderation, but you could maybe... relax the rules abit for a week and make them less strict.

No, I don't mean relax the rules, I mean a week, without moderators, apart from Smods to deal with emergencies E.g. posting of porn ect.

However, People like Qamp would be allowed back, would be good to see all your reactions.

A good few deps don't get enough praise as they should, imo, but I don't agree with your idea :p

I know that MAD/OSH have been mods before, going up through the ranks, so they know how much hard work it is. How do you think they should get praised though, in what way and stuff.

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Originally Posted by Coldplay

Moderators are too strict, remember?

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That's the thing though, we're not. Most members only ever say that when they get an infraction themselves and they're too proud to admit they're wrong. Obviously, if the moderator was in the wrong, the infraction gets reversed because each one is reviewed by another moderator make sure it's fair and not biased. The only reason we were so strict last night is because Spam got so out of control and it was necessary.

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Originally Posted by Coldplay

No, I don't mean relax the rules, I mean a week, without moderators, apart from Smods to deal with emergencies E.g. posting of porn ect.

However, People like Qamp would be allowed back, would be good to see all your reactions.

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Yes, but that's never going to happen is it? So my idea is much more suitable.

I don't think the majority of the Moderation team do it for praise, they're a bit more comfortable with themselves than that. They know they're helping the forum out and ensuring it's a nicer place for everyone. You should never do a job just for the praise because if you're happy doing it and you know you do it to a good standard then unless you're very insecure you wouldn't care about what other people thought or said about you. I don't think it's a good idea at all and there is no reason to do so. Most of the moderators should know they're very valued and that the majority are happy with their work. ;)

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Originally Posted by Coldplay

No, I don't mean relax the rules, I mean a week, without moderators, apart from Smods to deal with emergencies E.g. posting of porn ect.

However, People like Qamp would be allowed back, would be good to see all your reactions.

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Can't you just have moderators stay as they are but they should forcefully try not to remove posts etc to prove what does happen? If you really want to prove this theory?

I think all that it would do is cause extra strain on the super mods, who do more work than mods.

I am not saying mods don't do anything and it may have got better for mods/smod now as there is more of them, but a few months back there was just me, lascend, lucasage, mat64 and --ss-- as smod and there was always something that needed doing and the pressure was huge.

Isn't the future plan to scrap moderators and only have super moderators? I read that somewhere in one of the threads a few weeks ago :P

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Originally Posted by GommeInc

Isn't the future plan to scrap moderators and only have super moderators? I read that somewhere in one of the threads a few weeks ago :P

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It was the plan but was scrapped because of various reasons. I don't know all the ins and outs but nvr explained it in the thread in question.

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Originally Posted by Immenseman

I don't think the majority of the Moderation team do it for praise, they're a bit more comfortable with themselves than that. They know they're helping the forum out and ensuring it's a nicer place for everyone. You should never do a job just for the praise because if you're happy doing it and you know you do it to a good standard then unless you're very insecure you wouldn't care about what other people thought or said about you. I don't think it's a good idea at all and there is no reason to do so. Most of the moderators should know they're very valued and that the majority are happy with their work. ;)

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I mean, it's always nice to be praised for doing a good job, Management get free VIP / Payment, so it would be nice to at least be APPRECIATED by members, instead of getting ******* off all the time.

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Originally Posted by Favourtism

I think all that it would do is cause extra strain on the super mods, who do more work than mods.

I am not saying mods don't do anything and it may have got better for mods/smod now as there is more of them, but a few months back there was just me, lascend, lucasage, mat64 and --ss-- as smod and there was always something that needed doing and the pressure was huge.

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There are 8 now.

I HOPE NOT ;'(
I like this idea, but it would be total carnage. AND SEEING AS IM THE ONLY MOD IN ENTERTAINMENT NOW, i'd be exhausted trying to edit everything. I was getting pissed of last night, and that was only one edit, it takes AGES to edit stuff!

Lol, You've got another mod on the way. :)

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Originally Posted by Coldplay

I mean, it's always nice to be praised for doing a good job, Management get free VIP / Payment, so it would be nice to at least be APPRECIATED by members, instead of getting ******* off all the time.

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A moderator is the same as Articles Staff, Rare Values Staff and Competitions Staff etc, they're the same as all staff so you can hardly use the management "payment" to back your case up. Firstly, because moderators aren't managers and secondly you shouldn't do it for the praise but for the enjoyment or to pass your free time. If you get annoyed then obviously being a moderator wasn't the best job for you.

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Originally Posted by Immenseman

A moderator is the same as Articles Staff, Rare Values Staff and Competitions Staff etc, they're the same as all staff so you can hardly use the management "payment" to back your case up. Firstly, because moderators aren't managers and secondly you shouldn't do it for the praise but for the enjoyment or to pass your free time. If you get annoyed then obviously being a moderator wasn't the best job for you.

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Not really, Moderators are more important and get criticised for what they do more than any other department on Habbox. They are incharge of looking after the community and therefore are in more contact with the community than any other department on the site (because obviously a forum department is bigger than a site department in terms of what you see of Habbox). There has to be some amount of praise in the job you do, constantly being criticised for your actions won't exactly make you happy... Which therefore means you won't find as much enjoyment and will therefore mean it's a waste of your free time :P If you get annoyed, then you talk to your boss (whoever that is) and see if there's a way of changing the error. You are allowed an opinion on what you do or how something is done, as long as you back it up and aren't incredibly rude and belittling about it.

y not just a day where admin moderate the really bad posts. or just S mods moderate the bad posts but do nothing to anything else

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Originally Posted by GommeInc

Not really, Moderators are more important and get criticised for what they do more than any other department on Habbox. They are incharge of looking after the community and therefore are in more contact with the community than any other department on the site (because obviously a forum department is bigger than a site department in terms of what you see of Habbox). There has to be some amount of praise in the job you do, constantly being criticised for your actions won't exactly make you happy... Which therefore means you won't find as much enjoyment and will therefore mean it's a waste of your free time :P If you get annoyed, then you talk to your boss (whoever that is) and see if there's a way of changing the error. You are allowed an opinion on what you do or how something is done, as long as you back it up and aren't incredibly rude and belittling about it.

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How on earth is the forum bigger than Habbox.com :S Let me just use Rare Values Reporters as an example. Thousands of people daily go on habbox.com just to look at rare values not much else and don't use the forum. Just because you use the forum often and maybe not the Habbox Site as much you can't assume that everybody does the same because the truth is they don't. There will be people who just check articles, there will be people who just use the forum. All staff are in the same level, unless they're senior/super staff or what not.

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Originally Posted by GommeInc

Not really, Moderators are more important and get criticised for what they do more than any other department on Habbox. They are incharge of looking after the community and therefore are in more contact with the community than any other department on the site (because obviously a forum department is bigger than a site department in terms of what you see of Habbox). There has to be some amount of praise in the job you do, constantly being criticised for your actions won't exactly make you happy... Which therefore means you won't find as much enjoyment and will therefore mean it's a waste of your free time :P If you get annoyed, then you talk to your boss (whoever that is) and see if there's a way of changing the error. You are allowed an opinion on what you do or how something is done, as long as you back it up and aren't incredibly rude and belittling about it.

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Precisely my point.

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Originally Posted by Immenseman

How on earth is the forum bigger than Habbox.com :S Let me just use Rare Values Reporters as an example. Thousands of people daily go on habbox.com just to look at rare values not much else and don't use the forum. Just because you use the forum often and maybe not the Habbox Site as much you can't assume that everybody does the same because the truth is they don't. There will be people who just check articles, there will be people who just use the forum. All staff are in the same level, unless they're senior/super staff or what not.

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Hardly, because Moderators are pivotal to the site, additionally, Articles don't get slated for writing articles, which takes less time than moderation

Dj's get thanked by listeners

RVR's only have to report on what they see in the hotel.

Moderators do their jobs, and a lot of the time for at least 6 hours a day, and just get **** off the members.

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Originally Posted by Immenseman

How on earth is the forum bigger than Habbox.com :S Let me just use Rare Values Reporters as an example. Thousands of people daily go on habbox.com just to look at rare values not much else and don't use the forum. Just because you use the forum often and maybe not the Habbox Site as much you can't assume that everybody does the same because the truth is they don't. There will be people who just check articles, there will be people who just use the forum. All staff are in the same level, unless they're senior/super staff or what not.

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Because forum moderators directly work with members and users, while no-one knows which rare value staff did what value and no-one really cares. If a value is wrong, the whole department is usually criticised, while if a moderator does something, obviously the one moderator is to blame unless it appears that the moderator was given orders by a guide, then the whole department is criticised.

It's common sense and kinda obvious the forum department is larger than any other department on Habbox. They're seen more, they're discussed more, they do more work as far as members can see and have to keep to more rules and regulations. The only departments getting close to interactiveness with members are the articles and news departments. Coldplay seems to understand it too, moderators are called upon more, while an article staff member just has to write an article and leave it be, same with most other departments. The forum department have to be on alot, look after alot more things and do alot more things. Kinda obvious :P

As someone just said to me, you're taking a "typical AGM view on everything." :P

If you think RVRs don't get a lot of hassle then oh dear... They get it 10x worse than Moderators. I can say that after working in both departments for quite some time.

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Originally Posted by GommeInc

Because forum moderators directly work with members and users, while no-one knows which rare value staff did what value and no-one really cares. If a value is wrong, the whole department is usually criticised, while if a moderator does something, obviously the one moderator is to blame unless it appears that the moderator was given orders by a guide, then the whole department is criticised.

It's common sense and kinda obvious the forum department is larger than any other department on Habbox. They're seen more, they're discussed more, they do more work as far as members can see and have to keep to more rules and regulations. The only departments getting close to interactiveness with members are the articles and news departments.

As someone just said to me, you're taking a "typical AGM view on everything." :P

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If onde moderator gets criticised then a lot of the time they actually deserve it for not thinking before they make a decision. Like I said I think I can make quite a decent judgement that other staff get just as much hassle as Moderators because I have worked for a number of departments. Sometimes I see DJ's getting singled out, in fact I see it more than I see Moderators. If you're method was right then surely the HabboxLive Team are the most essential to Habbox because they run a whole site by themselves.

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Originally Posted by Immenseman

If you think RVRs don't get a lot of hassle then oh dear... They get it 10x worse than Moderators. I can say that after working in both departments for quite some time.

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As have I, but I don't agree with you. :S

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Originally Posted by Immenseman

If you think RVRs don't get a lot of hassle then oh dear... They get it 10x worse than Moderators. I can say that after working in both departments for quite some time.


If onde moderator gets criticised then a lot of the time they actually deserve it for not thinking before they make a decision. Like I said I think I can make quite a decent judgement that other staff get just as much hassle as Moderators because I have worked for a number of departments. Sometimes I see DJ's getting singled out, in fact I see it more than I see Moderators. If you're method was right then surely the HabboxLive Team are the most essential to Habbox because they run a whole site by themselves.

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I cannot see any evidence that the department suffers more. The forum is the main place to see all these criticisms come together, and the majority I see are criticisms against the forum department in terms of rules being too strict, moderators doing a bad job and so on and so forth. The Rare Value Department do have alot of work to do as in making sure rare values are correct, but that doesn't contend with the more direct and personal approach that moderators seem to suffer. Moderators know who criticises them, rare value staff don't, because the department is usually considered at fault, not an individual.

How comes ColdPlay is banned?!

Sometime last year I worked as a Forum Moderator for a couple of months, the dedication and time you have to put into the job is enormous, only once did I get a feeling of 'Oh... no new posts and no post reports, what to do?' - I do understand the hard-work you have to put in, you have to carefully evaluate everything before an infraction and type out edits exactly right otherwise you'll be moaned at by members or even worse by the managers.

I have to agree with Immenseman on this one, the job shouldn't be done for praise. I did the job to fill time and knowingly help the forum, there's always been a bad attitude towards moderators on this forum by a number of users, it's a naturally a job where you'll be hated by some, it's like joining the police in a way. But there is always people who respect you, like they respect the police, these people are usually the one's that shut up and don't do anything, you may not be getting threads saying 'Coldplay you were a wonderful moderator!' or 'Slowpoke thanks for dedicating your time!' but I still have a lot of respect for you.

I'd just ignore all this 'flaming' from members however it shouldn't be confused with constructive criticism. If it gets too out of hand perhaps members could be PMed by Moderator's telling them that they're just trying to do their best and help.

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Originally Posted by GommeInc

I cannot see any evidence that the department suffers more. The forum is the main place to see all these criticisms come together, and the majority I see are criticisms against the forum department in terms of rules being too strict, moderators doing a bad job and so on and so forth. The Rare Value Department do have alot of work to do as in making sure rare values are correct, but that doesn't contend with the more direct and personal approach that moderators seem to suffer. Moderators know who criticises them, rare value staff don't, because the department is usually considered at fault, not an individual.

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Well just had a quick look now and there are more direct complaints about DJ's which aren't "valid" or "fair". As normal rare values staff I had plenty of personal attacks not as a department. I don't know where you're getting this information from because I don't remember you being Rare Values Staff in the last two years. I would say Habbox main attraction is Rare Values and then maybe HxL/Forum second. It's ridiculous to say they get more personal attacks:S

I think this might work actually, it gives the users that thrive off punishment or insults nothing therefore they realise etc etc.

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Originally Posted by Immenseman

Well just had a quick look now and there are more direct complaints about DJ's which aren't "valid" or "fair". As normal rare values staff I had plenty of personal attacks not as a department. I don't know where you're getting this information from because I don't remember you being Rare Values Staff in the last two years. I would say Habbox main attraction is Rare Values and then maybe HxL/Forum second. It's ridiculous to say they get more personal attacks:S

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You see more of a site from a member point of view than a staff point of view. As far as I can see, and judging by some other people, the forum department is looked upon more than the rare values department, especially considering the fact that the majority of Habbo users use Habbox for trading and that number is alot bigger than the forum members moaning at moderators. The perceivable stats kinda make it obvious. I (and others) see more of the forum department than the rare values department, and the forum is the main source of contact with both deparments. Heck, on Habbo I hear more about the forum department decisions being criticised than the rare values department, and obviously the forum department has little contact with what goes on, on Habbo :P

I see what you mean Adam but things will get so personal between some users and things will be blown out of proportion. Moderation is essential to the forum and they do a great job to keep things in shape. This thread was produced to prove a point, the point we all already know. Moderators are vital to keep HxF going.

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Originally Posted by Immenseman

If you think RVRs don't get a lot of hassle then oh dear... They get it 10x worse than Moderators. I can say that after working in both departments for quite some time.


If onde moderator gets criticised then a lot of the time they actually deserve it for not thinking before they make a decision. Like I said I think I can make quite a decent judgement that other staff get just as much hassle as Moderators because I have worked for a number of departments. Sometimes I see DJ's getting singled out, in fact I see it more than I see Moderators. If you're method was right then surely the HabboxLive Team are the most essential to Habbox because they run a whole site by themselves.

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Jake I love you, but no. HxL aren't the most essential to Habbox. Without the Mods, it would be chaos. You can say 'we have AGMs, Admins, SMods to help', then be my guest, Let all 15(ish) of you Mod the whole forum.
The fact remains that Mods do the hardest and most important work on a day to day basis, luckily enough I haven't made any bad decisions (in the user's eyes) for them to give me stick, but I'm sure one day I will. Mods get so much stick for just enforcing the rules that the users agreed to obey on sign up.

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Originally Posted by GommeInc

How comes ColdPlay is banned?!

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You've been here long enough to know that asking that question is futile ;)

As for the topic, I can completely see Jake's POV, in fact he would probably have felt it most being the RV manager. However, as with habboxlive, a lot of the stick forum moderators get is aimed personally at them rather than at the manager or the department as a whole, which makes it get to you more than in other depts. Arguing over which department gets the most stick is very much besides-the-point anyway.

The proposal that Sam put forward is extremely interesting and something which has been suggested many times before. However, for fairly obvious reasons, its extremely unlikely to happen.

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Originally Posted by samsaBEAR

Jake I love you, but no. HxL aren't the most essential to Habbox. Without the Mods, it would be chaos. You can say 'we have AGMs, Admins, SMods to help', then be my guest, Let all 15(ish) of you Mod the whole forum.
The fact remains that Mods do the hardest and most important work on a day to day basis, luckily enough I haven't made any bad decisions (in the user's eyes) for them to give me stick, but I'm sure one day I will. Mods get so much stick for just enforcing the rules that the users agreed to obey on sign up.

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I was saying if we used his way of thinking then surely he would think that, it's not my personal opinion. I can usually see good and bad points for most ideas but I am struggling to see what is postive about this, am I missing something:S

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Originally Posted by Immenseman

I see what you mean Adam but things will get so personal between some users and things will be blown out of proportion. Moderation is essential to the forum and they do a great job to keep things in shape. This thread was produced to prove a point, the point we all already know. Moderators are vital to keep HxF going.

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Super Moderators are vital to keep HxF going, moderators are not.