Microsoft is accused by EU again

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17-01-2009, 06:21 PM
Flisker

Microsoft is accused by EU again

Quote:

The European Commission has accused Microsoft of harming competition by bundling its Explorer web browser with its Windows operating system.

The commission said it had reached the preliminary view that the US software giant had undermined consumer choice and infringed EU rules.

Microsoft and the European Union have engaged in legal battles over competition issues for years.

Last year, the EU fined Microsoft 899m euros ($1.4bn; £680.9m).

Browser battle

In its statement on Friday the Commission said: "Microsoft's tying of Internet Explorer to the Windows operating system harms competition between web browsers, undermines product innovation and ultimately reduces consumer choice."

Microsoft that it was studying the commission's preliminary finding, and did not rule out requesting a formal hearing.

It has been given eight weeks to reply.

The US software firm controls the majority of the web-browsing market through its Explorer browser.

Analysts say the company has diversified enormously and is now no longer so reliant on its Windows operating system, with revenue coming from Xbox sales and server software.

In February 2008, the EU fined Microsoft 899m euros for defying sanctions imposed on it for anti-competitive behaviour.

The penalty - which was then one of the largest imposed by the European Commission - came after Microsoft failed to comply with an earlier 2004 ruling that it had abused its market position.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/image...ft_226i_ap.jpg The EU and Microsoft have clashed several times over the years

Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7834792.stm

one word... Wow.

Could this mean IE will stop being shipped with Windows in the EU?
17-01-2009, 06:32 PM
FlyingJesus

Surely they're allowed to put their own software in with a system :S
17-01-2009, 06:34 PM
Flisker

Apparently it's dominating the browser market.
17-01-2009, 06:35 PM
GommeInc

... Who cares? No-one I know cares about this, and there is no reason to. If you don't want to use IE, you can use any browser with minimal effort. IE is there as a safe option for compatibility issues for some programs and internet features which don't work in Firefox or other browsers, which still do exist :/
17-01-2009, 06:37 PM
Hitman

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyingJesus

Surely they're allowed to put their own software in with a system :S

Just what I was thinking... if they didn't put IE with Windows then we wouldn't be able to download Firefox or Google Chrome anyway, unless they included it with Windows, which is silly... Macs come with Safari and not Firefox aswell (NOT causing an argument here just stating).

Hmm.
17-01-2009, 06:40 PM
FlyingJesus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hitman

if they didn't put IE with Windows then we wouldn't be able to download Firefox or Google Chrome anyway

Haha oh yeah. No browser unless you buy a disc with it or something :S that'd be ultimately crap
17-01-2009, 06:42 PM
Flisker

If they do remove IE from Windows, then surely they will make a link with lists of browsers to download like:

Internet Explorer
Firefox
Google Chrome
Safari
Opera
17-01-2009, 06:47 PM
Turbocom

I'll be honest with you, people are just trying to get money out of Microsoft. They are by far the most successful company out there for the computer and entertainment systems out there. This is almost like the guy trying to sue them over a scratched disk. Microsoft will win again, as the always do.

They are allowed to put there own stuff it like common how much ** do people put out there.

And when I say most successful its true, apple sales are dropping due to the economy
17-01-2009, 07:08 PM
scottish

EU must be so ******* stupid, that's like saying "Oh when you sell a dell computer you can't give a dell monitor with it, its dominating the monitor market" like wth stupid *****.
17-01-2009, 07:15 PM
Captain

EU are a joke. Why is the UK even apart of this :\
17-01-2009, 07:19 PM
Moh

Even thought I hate Microsoft, I think this is stupid.

How do you download any other browser when you don't have a browser installed?

I do however, think they shouldn't have it embedded into the system. You should be able to install it if you don't want it.
17-01-2009, 07:22 PM
--ss--

Screw what they say, they're just money hungry scumbags.
If people didn't like IE they can always download another one, it's not like MS are syaing you can only use IE with their Operating Systems.
17-01-2009, 07:34 PM
Moh

Quote:

Originally Posted by --ss--

Screw what they say, they're just money hungry scumbags.
If people didn't like IE they can always download another one, it's not like MS are syaing you can only use IE with their Operating Systems.

But they are saying you have to have it installed, it should come with Firefox installed imo.
17-01-2009, 07:38 PM
scottish

Why the hell would they supply their OWN operating system with a COMPETITORS operating system?

Thats just ******* stupid.

Thats like microsoft setting up an advertisement campaign on TV for firefox? why the **** would they do that, its idiotic.

Also you can delete IE if you want :S
17-01-2009, 07:41 PM
Moh

Quote:

Originally Posted by entrance

Why the hell would they supply their OWN operating system with a COMPETITORS operating system?

Thats just ******* stupid.

Thats like microsoft setting up an advertisement campaign on TV for firefox? why the **** would they do that, its idiotic.

Also you can delete IE if you want :S

Because Firefox is better, and don't Microsoft like to provide the best service?

Also, IE's embedded into the system, you cannot install it.
17-01-2009, 07:42 PM
--ss--

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack120

But they are saying you have to have it installed, it should come with Firefox installed imo.

Well it'll be unfair on all other browsers then, if they're gunna make it so it has to come with Firefox then they have to make sure it also comes with Google Chrome, Opera, Safari and every other browser aswell. They're gunna complicate things so they mightaswell leave it as it is.
17-01-2009, 07:44 PM
Moh

Quote:

Originally Posted by --ss--

Well it'll be unfair on all other browsers then, if they're gunna make it so it has to come with Firefox then they have to make sure it also comes with Google Chrome, Opera, Safari and every other browser aswell. They're gunna complicate things so they mightaswell leave it as it is.

True. Their should be a vote on which Browser comes installed, then no one can complain :)
17-01-2009, 07:46 PM
scottish

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack120

True. Their should be a vote on which Browser comes installed, then no one can complain :)

But they can't cause if they chose to create all them then I'd create a company and make a browser (i wouldn't but just for example) then i could sue the EU for allowing them to give MS with all them browsers and not mine. so it'd be ridiculous.
17-01-2009, 07:46 PM
--ss--

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack120

True. Their should be a vote on which Browser comes installed, then no one can complain :)

The minority can :p

It's their OS so they have every right to use their own browser, infact it's not like the browser is going to make them any extra direct cash, it's a free service they're providing with their software, if they were to charge people to use it then it'd be a different story.
17-01-2009, 08:06 PM
Hitman

Some linux distibutions (like Ubuntu) come with Firefox... that's basically the same as this.
17-01-2009, 08:08 PM
Moh

Why's everyone sticking up for Microsoft, their a right arse of a company.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hitman

Some linux distibutions (like Ubuntu) come with Firefox... that's basically the same as this.

Linux is free and open source.
17-01-2009, 08:13 PM
scottish

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack120

Why's everyone sticking up for Microsoft, their a right arse of a company.

Linux is free and open source.

Because a few reasons

i like microsoft

and if i made a company and built it up to get about a few hudnred billion a year, i'd hate for some low life scum fining me all the time to take my money for unjustified causes.
17-01-2009, 08:13 PM
Tim.

How would we be able to get hold of other browsers without an actual browser to start?
17-01-2009, 08:20 PM
Hitman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack120

Why's everyone sticking up for Microsoft, their a right arse of a company.

Linux is free and open source.

They're still promoting Firefox, giving it an unfair advantage.
17-01-2009, 08:34 PM
Moh

Quote:

Originally Posted by entrance

Because a few reasons

i like microsoft

and if i made a company and built it up to get about a few hudnred billion a year, i'd hate for some low life scum fining me all the time to take my money for unjustified causes.

It didn't say they got fined, it says they are accused.

But I do agree with EU (Well, not with this case), Microsoft do not play fair in the market. They shouldn't have to use their money to "make their products the best", they should make them the best so they shouldn't even have to pay. For example, Microsoft gaming. If their game console was "the best", then why would they have to pay game developers to just create games for them and not PS3.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hitman

They're still promoting Firefox, giving it an unfair advantage.

People have a choice to have Linux or not, but Windows is installed on pretty much every computer. Which puts the cost of a computer up by how much?
17-01-2009, 08:39 PM
scottish

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack120

It didn't say they got fined, it says they are accused.

But I do agree with EU (Well, not with this case), Microsoft do not play fair in the market. They shouldn't have to use their money to "make their products the best", they should make them the best so they shouldn't even have to pay. For example, Microsoft gaming. If their game console was "the best", then why would they have to pay game developers to just create games for them and not PS3.

People have a choice to have Linux or not, but Windows is installed on pretty much every computer. Which puts the cost of a computer up by how much?

Yes but we all know microsoft is going to lose against the EU as they're just in it trying to make some money for stupid causes.

Imho if i was microsoft i'd do something to spite the stupid *******s who are doing this, like add something to make other browsers incompatible and don't ship it with internet explorer so they have no way of using the internet just to piss these ***** off.
17-01-2009, 08:39 PM
Nick.

They should bundle Firefox and Internet Explorer on Windows tbh. All my friends use IE7 and hate it, but don't know there is an alternative. They think that the only way to get on the net is IE7. IE7 really is a hunk of junk. It's so bloated and ugly, hopefully IE8 will be better.
17-01-2009, 08:40 PM
scottish

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick.

They should bundle Firefox and Internet Explorer on Windows tbh. All my friends use IE7 and hate it, but don't know there is an alternative. They think that the only way to get on the net is IE7. IE7 really is a hunk of junk. It's so bloated and ugly, hopefully IE8 will be better.

MS shouldnt have to advertise other browsers because other browsers don't advertise enough?
17-01-2009, 08:41 PM
Jordy

This is identical to the Windows Media Player case which they lost and the EU made £600,000,000 out of them, they're just trying their luck again to get a bit more easy money from them. When I buy the Windows OS, I pay for Windows Media Player and Internet Explorer too, it's like a package of software you pay for, the EU treats it as you buy the Kernel and everything else is additional? No consumers have complained, and the funny thing is, neither has Firefox, Safari or Google Chrome.

Although I'm an avid Firefox fan and I try to get my friends and family away from IE, it's always my second browser and I like an easy backup browser which integrates well with Windows. I see this as the EU trying to make money or look for problems which aren't there.

I'm not sure if anyone noticed but as a result of the EU sanctions against Microsoft, Microsoft didn't incorporate Windows Media Player with European editions of Vista. However they stuck a little pop-up/balloon reminding you to download it (I'm guessing everybody downloads it). You just had to click the balloon and it downloaded it and installed it. So it's not like the EU achieved anything anyway, they still get people to download it.

Why don't the EU go after Linux Distro's and Apple too? Surely they may as well go for the whole Windows OS as almost all the software on Windows has a competitor somewhere? Microsoft aren't anti-competitive, they encourage developers and programmers to make rival software and allow them to easily implement it in Windows. Microsoft helped Mozilla intergrate Firefox with Vista when it was released and they have tech support lines to help developers.

It's wrong the EU goes after Microsoft but they achieve nothing anyway as MS will simply stick a balloon in telling you to download IE.
17-01-2009, 08:44 PM
Moh

Quote:

Originally Posted by entrance

MS shouldnt have to advertise other browsers because other browsers don't advertise enough?

In what way could they advertise their browsers to people who have no clue about what a browser is?
17-01-2009, 09:17 PM
scottish

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack120

In what way could they advertise their browsers to people who have no clue about what a browser is?

I'm sure over 99% of the world who have a computer, also have a tv or access to family tv. oh advertisement.

im sure they could advertise more on various webpages

It's not as if because its a browser there is no way to advertise :\
17-01-2009, 09:27 PM
Hitman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack120

People have a choice to have Linux or not, but Windows is installed on pretty much every computer. Which puts the cost of a computer up by how much?

People have a choice to buy a system with an OS or not, they also have a choice to buy a system with Windows installed on it. Cost is irrelevant to this. Choice is irrelevant.

Windows comes with IE, so they're promoting IE.
Ubuntu comes with Firefox, so they're promoting Firefox.
Macs come with Safari, so they're promoting safari.

The Mac OS isn't free, is it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack120

In what way could they advertise their browsers to people who have no clue about what a browser is?

Most people who use the internet know what a browser is. If they don't know what one is then I doubt they care about which browser they use.
17-01-2009, 09:31 PM
Jahova

What a joke. Microsoft made the OS, so they should be allowed to bundle anything they like with it. What will be next? Windows Movie Maker or paint because it 'dominates' the market.
17-01-2009, 09:33 PM
scottish

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomSpit

What a joke. Microsoft made the OS, so they should be allowed to bundle anything they like with it. What will be next? Windows Movie Maker or paint because it 'dominates' the market.

Jesus christ dude, don't give them ideas.
18-01-2009, 02:46 AM
Rapidshare

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack120

Even thought I hate Microsoft, I think this is stupid.

How do you download any other browser when you don't have a browser installed?

I do however, think they shouldn't have it embedded into the system. You should be able to install it if you don't want it.

You can uninstal it if you want :/

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack120

Because Firefox is better, and don't Microsoft like to provide the best service?

Also, IE's embedded into the system, you cannot install it.

Same as above.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack120

True. Their should be a vote on which Browser comes installed, then no one can complain :)

No point, cos i want something else?

Quote:

Originally Posted by entrance

Jesus christ dude, don't give them ideas.

I lol'd

and lol at this, EU are dumb :).
18-01-2009, 03:58 AM
HotelUser

Although I think Internet Explorer is a waste of breath I think it's within their right to include it in Windows. Should they not be allowed to sell Media Center editions of Windows because Media Center competes with other PVR software? Does mspaint hurt Photoshop sales?
18-01-2009, 10:13 AM
Hitman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rapidshare

You can uninstal it if you want :/

Same as above.

No point, cos i want something else?

I lol'd

and lol at this, EU are dumb :).

No, Jake, you can't. Try uninstalling it, it won't budge.