Palestine or Israel

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02-04-2009, 05:59 PM
-:Undertaker:-

Palestine or Israel

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Israel.svg.png
State of Israel

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...estine.svg.png
Palestinian National Authority

After the British Mandate of Palestine (which was set up after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire) was dissolved in 1948. Due to the holocaust may jewish people had immigrated to this country which had been arab land for hundreds, if not thousands of years.

Jerusalem was overrun by the two religions and after the British withdrawl the UN planned a partition with the creation of a jewish state and a arab state with Jerusalem as a UN-administrated zone. Jerusalem did have more arabs than jews.

Due to the arabs not accepting the partition plan, civil war broke out and neighbouring arab countries invaded, Israel was victorious and occupied much more land than the partition plan had planned. To this day Israel occupies parts of the planned Palestinian State, parts of Syria & Lebanon.

Israel also has a nucler arsenal which it refuses to awknowledge and has even abducted the man who exposed their nuclear program to the British media in he 1980's. Palestine meanwhile remains a country which is seperated in zones and isn't offically a country.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...s%2C_Davos.jpg
Palestinian President (democratically elected)
Mahmoud Abbas

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...%282009%29.jpg
Israeli President (democratically elected)
Shimon Peres

So what is your opinion on the conflict, are you more on Palestines side or Israels side. Personally I believe the 'State of Palestine' should occupy all that area and I regard Israel as an illegal state.

Vote and discuss!
02-04-2009, 06:01 PM
cocaine

i dont understand it lmao. even with the notes at the top :(
02-04-2009, 06:02 PM
Technologic

Palestine. Who the hell kills thousands of people, starves millions, cut their basic needs and then calls it a success?
02-04-2009, 06:05 PM
-:Undertaker:-

Basically you had the Ottoman Empire (an arab empire) which ruled over all that land until after WWII. When it collapsed, that area where Palestine and Israel now occupy the UN gave to the British to administer (British Mandate of Palestine). Many jews immigrated to Israel after the war and then civil war broke out, Arab neighbours invaded and Israel was ultimatley victorious.

The question is, do you believe the land is Palestine's or Israels, considering the jews only began appearing there after WWII whilst the arabs had been there for hundreds, even thousands of years.
02-04-2009, 06:07 PM
Technologic

Claiming land on religious reasons is stupid. The arabs are native to the area so the land is obviously theirs.
02-04-2009, 06:08 PM
cocaine

ohright. im on the palenstinian side.
thanks for clearing it up (:
02-04-2009, 06:32 PM
FlyingJesus

Take a wild guess
02-04-2009, 06:54 PM
--ss--

Palestine fo sho.
It was their land, if the Jews wanted the land they wouldnt have left it for the western world. The true people of the land were Arabs whom at one point were jews but then had converted to muslim and stayed their. The majority of the Jews that went back to Isreal weren't probably even orignated from their.
If they wanted to be fair they would have given the Arabs much more land.
02-04-2009, 08:06 PM
no waiii

which one helps me with my daily life? ie makes things that i would use?
02-04-2009, 08:25 PM
Jordy

Quote:

Originally Posted by no waiii

which one helps me with my daily life? ie makes things that i would use?

Well Israel provides a lot of the Fruit consumed in the UK, presumably though Palestine also has good farmland too but I can't say I've ever eaten any food from Palestine (Then again officially speaking Palestine isn't a country so it could have had Israel written on it anyway). Growing decent crops can be done by whoever occupies the land though so it's slightly irrelevant, much like your post.
02-04-2009, 08:36 PM
Immenseman

Hmmm, Israeli president looks like a barrel of laughs. Therefore, Israel, woo.
02-04-2009, 09:12 PM
no waiii

Palestinians president looks like he is about to fall asleep
04-04-2009, 01:22 PM
FlyingJesus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordy

(Then again officially speaking Palestine isn't a country so it could have had Israel written on it anyway)

Palestine is a country lol, it's not the entire country occupied by Israel just a large enough part of it to be a massive injustice.

This week: Israel found to be using white phosphorus (WP) shells against civilians! Joy to the world. It's not illegal but Geneva states that it can't be used in urban areas because it basically burns everything up and leaves people horrifically wounded. Human Rights Watch have said that Israel's use of WP has been "indiscriminate" and amounts to a war crime.
04-04-2009, 01:43 PM
-:Undertaker:-

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyingJesus

Palestine is a country lol, it's not the entire country occupied by Israel just a large enough part of it to be a massive injustice.

This week: Israel found to be using white phosphorus (WP) shells against civilians! Joy to the world. It's not illegal but Geneva states that it can't be used in urban areas because it basically burns everything up and leaves people horrifically wounded. Human Rights Watch have said that Israel's use of WP has been "indiscriminate" and amounts to a war crime.

Offically it isn't a country is what I have heard which is a massive injustice. In the first Gulf War Saddam Hussein was accused by the west of invading Kuwait illegally, despite reports that Kuwait were stealing Iraqi oil using slanted pipelines. We went in to liberate Kuwait. If we are so 'for independance' why can we not liberate Palestine or even support the two breakaway regions of Georgia for their independance.

It really does knock the wests 'morals' over, support one group yet don't support another. You can't have it two ways, and its something the United States needs to get right to maintain a moral stronghold over countries like the Peoples Republic of China because I certainly don't want them as a major world power in my lifetime.

As for the white phosperus, its a disgrace. The United States used it in Iraq aswell and the worse thing is, Israel are using it on a country which doesn't even have an army like Iraq did.
04-04-2009, 01:47 PM
BeanEgg

Palestine. Sorted.

They are native, then a small group take over and claim it's theirs over religious claims which is horrifically stupid.

The Israeli State cut supplies to Palestine (from their own country), and claim it's to make peace. (Clever, is it not? :rolleyes:)

Then Israel use phosphorus shells over civilians, and claim Hamas soldiers were at the building they attacked. Also they attacked a school, where the UN declared the place as a safe place, then Israel attacked it. Later found that there were only civilians there, as previously alerted. Really smart.

Also, an Israel soldier proved that they were murdering civilians, recently.
They Israeli forces made fools of themselves when they were filmed by the BBC. They raided a home in Gaza where people were ill, hungry and thirsty and never helped them. That was illegal, they're are meant to help them.

Hence, I support Palestine all the way. :eusa_clap

Feel free to -Rep, if you are that sick. ;)
04-04-2009, 01:49 PM
FlyingJesus

The US/UK don't help Palestine (or not as much as they should) because we benefit from Israel in terms of Westernizing power. The US provide them with all their weapons - think back to their early wars with Egypt and such, and think how well they'd have done without the massive US supply - and in return are an "outpost" of sorts in the East, much like how we've used Turkey and other such countries in the past
04-04-2009, 01:57 PM
-:Undertaker:-

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyingJesus

The US/UK don't help Palestine (or not as much as they should) because we benefit from Israel in terms of Westernizing power. The US provide them with all their weapons - think back to their early wars with Egypt and such, and think how well they'd have done without the massive US supply - and in return are an "outpost" of sorts in the East, much like how we've used Turkey and other such countries in the past

I know and it's totally wrong, as i've said before - Israel wouldn't be here now if the United States didn't pump stupendous amounts of money into it. It's an illegal state and if i'm honest if I was a Palestinian I would fight for my land back just like we fought the Third Reich to prevent our land & rights from being taken.
04-04-2009, 02:00 PM
FlyingJesus

Well I didn't fight the Third Reich but yeah
04-04-2009, 02:08 PM
-:Undertaker:-

The country as whole darling. :P
04-04-2009, 10:57 PM
Jordy

Quote:

Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

I know and it's totally wrong, as i've said before - Israel wouldn't be here now if the United States didn't pump stupendous amounts of money into it. It's an illegal state and if i'm honest if I was a Palestinian I would fight for my land back just like we fought the Third Reich to prevent our land & rights from being taken.

Yeah that's very true, to this day they continue to give them enormous amounts of aid, weapons and yeah, money. However lets share the blame, although the US continues it's loyalty to Israel because of it being a strong power in the Middle East but mostly because of it's large Jewish community. Lets not forget about the UK which is responsible for helping them build illegal nuclear warheads and creating the state in the first place.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyingJesus

The US/UK don't help Palestine (or not as much as they should) because we benefit from Israel in terms of Westernizing power. The US provide them with all their weapons - think back to their early wars with Egypt and such, and think how well they'd have done without the massive US supply - and in return are an "outpost" of sorts in the East, much like how we've used Turkey and other such countries in the past

That's a good point actually, they really are an outpost in a lot of respects, much like Turkey has been in the Second Gulf War and Saudi Arabia was in the First Gulf War. I personally don't see them being that useful to America as they have enough allies in the region to probably do with out them but because of their illegal nuclear weapons, I wouldn't be surprised if they were ever to use Israel's if the need ever arised to launch a nuclear warhead, particularly as most the US one's are guarded by the UN I believe? The US do very well out it anyway, they build up the Israeli armies and then the richer Middle Eastern countries, countries such as the UAE & Saudi Arabia feel the need to rival their armies and where do they buy most their weapons and aircraft from? America. It's a win, win situation!

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeanEgg

Palestine. Sorted.

They are native, then a small group take over and claim it's theirs over religious claims which is horrifically stupid.

The Israeli State cut supplies to Palestine (from their own country), and claim it's to make peace. (Clever, is it not? :rolleyes:)

Then Israel use phosphorus shells over civilians, and claim Hamas soldiers were at the building they attacked. Also they attacked a school, where the UN declared the place as a safe place, then Israel attacked it. Later found that there were only civilians there, as previously alerted. Really smart.

Also, an Israel soldier proved that they were murdering civilians, recently.
They Israeli forces made fools of themselves when they were filmed by the BBC. They raided a home in Gaza where people were ill, hungry and thirsty and never helped them. That was illegal, they're are meant to help them.

Hence, I support Palestine all the way. :eusa_clap

Feel free to -Rep, if you are that sick. ;)

Regarding your point about the school, that was a shameless move by Hamas. Although I support the nation of Palestine and Hamas's motives I totally think they screwed up here. The UN said it was a 'Safe Spot' and then Hamas then begin storing their weapons and important people in there which Israel wants to kill. This then puts Israel in a difficult situation as the UN say no, but Hamas have used this to their advantage to make Israel look bad and hopefully to stop them bombing it. Israel don't fall for it, bomb it, and now everyone thinks it's an awful thing on the Israeli's behalf but really Hamas just got their own civilians killed for their own people (who were also killed anyway!).
04-04-2009, 11:47 PM
Virgin Mary

The Jews only got Israel back because everyone felt bad for marching past the concentration camps and supporting Hitler till he tried to take over the world. I don't even know why they want it or call it holy land, it's a ****hole with no resources.