Does religion have a positive or negative influence on society? [ENDS 31/01/2010]

Does religion have a positive or negative influence on society?

Ends 01/02/2010

In recent years, religion has received a lot of negative press from the media. Religious extremism has been the cause of many terrorist attacks, from the IRA bombings to the 9/11 attacks in America. Some would argue that if religion didn't exist, a lot of problems we face in modern times would not even exist.

Nevertheless, religion is also a tool for good. It encourages many things that most people would consider morally correct. It is, in fact, the basis of most modern day values and law.

The question is, do you think religion has a positive or negative impact of society?

NOTE: This is not a debate on whether certain religions are or are not valid. The existence of God is not the debate here. We are talking about the influence religion has on society.

Negative

The biggest problem surrounding religions is racism. Racism has been a big problem since religions began, putting a massive strain on the world and governments and most of all society.

If there was no religions in the world there would be no terrorists, religious riots and proably no wars.

On the flip side, riots would still exist over things such as skin colour, money, and rivalry between countries & their governments (laws etc)

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Originally Posted by Special

Negative

The biggest problem surrounding religions is racism. Racism has been a big problem since religions began, putting a massive strain on the world and governments and most of all society.

If there was no religions in the world there would be no terrorists, religious riots and proably no wars.

On the flip side, riots would still exist over things such as skin colour, money, and rivalry between countries & their governments (laws etc)

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All of them would still exist if there was no such thing as religion. Conflicting opinions and ideas will always exist, it doesn't have to be over who created the world, it could be over rights, land, rules etc. It's kinda obvious religious riots won't exist without religion, but what about normal riots? You seem to say it's bad, but say without religion it would still be bad. Can you go on further with this? Like your views, would be interesting :)

Anyway, I tend to see religion do more good than bad, the only negatives effects are what leak into mainstream media as with the usually media huffing stories that only revolve around bad/negative news.

For example; alot of charities are relgious based. Aviation Fellowship is working in Haiti now helping with the rescue and recovery missions. Although the charity primarly functions around giving aid as well as religion to poorer countries, it helps out alot within local, small communities and puts the religion side behind :) The Salvation Army is a good example of localised religious groups who selflessly help the poor. Alot of volunteer work is done through churches. At my local church, a group went to Kenya to help at a school, and as they were sponsored the money went towards sending food and supplies.

At Christmas, churches fill shoe boxes to give to the poor, either those on the streets or families with problems, be it money or relationship problems.

The silent majority of all religious groups are the good, and minority groups e.g. extremists are the bad. Notice how the silent ones are the majority ;) Yes, the bad ones exist because of religion, but let's not scrap the good ones aside, who are righteously passionate in what they do, voluntarily helping the elderly, the young, the rich and the poor.

i hate religion because it brainwashes people into believing nonsense. but that's just my opinion, i would not try and rub it on anybody else as i respect peoples' opinions.

Positive.

Imagine being told there is no God, no afterlife, this is it. Your one and only chance.
Society would imploud. The 7 Billion People in the world who believe in faith would kill, rape, steal and rob their way to the best life they could get, as this is their only chance.
Religion is what separates us from the animals.

Like it or not, without Religion, there would be no need to conform to any society, to any law. War would be a thing of the past, war would be routine.

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Originally Posted by TaffTalk

Positive.

Imagine being told there is no God, no afterlife, this is it. Your one and only chance.
Society would imploud. The 7 Billion People in the world who believe in faith would kill, rape, steal and rob their way to the best life they could get, as this is their only chance.
Religion is what separates us from the animals.

Like it or not, without Religion, there would be no need to conform to any society, to any law. War would be a thing of the past, war would be routine.

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i didn't know there was 7bill peeps in the world nvm 7b who are religious?!

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Originally Posted by TaffTalk

Positive.

Imagine being told there is no God, no afterlife, this is it. Your one and only chance.

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I've always believed that, it wouldn't phase me in the slightest.

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Originally Posted by TaffTalk

Society would imploud. The 7 Billion People in the world who believe in faith

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There are ~6.6 billion people on Earth, and not all of them are religious.

**Implode

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Originally Posted by TaffTalk

would kill, rape, steal and rob their way to the best life they could get, as this is their only chance.

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No. Sweden is one of the most Atheistic countries in the world and also one of the most peaceful. Shock horror.

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Originally Posted by TaffTalk

Religion is what separates us from the animals.

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Humans are animals. We are of the kingdom Animalia.

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Originally Posted by TaffTalk

Like it or not, without Religion, there would be no need to conform to any society, to any law. War would be a thing of the past, war would be routine.

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You really don't give human morality any credit do you? Go watch "Why do people laugh at creationists? Part 29".

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Originally Posted by DrLacero

I've always believed that, it wouldn't phase me in the slightest.



There are ~6.6 billion people on Earth, and not all of them are religious.

**Implode



No. Sweden is one of the most Atheistic countries in the world and also one of the most peaceful. Shock horror.



Humans are animals. We are of the kingdom Animalia.



You really don't give human morality any credit do you? Go watch "Why do people laugh at creationists? Part 29".

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marry me irl

Edited by Jamesy (Forum Super Moderator): Please do not post pointlessly.

I see you point, however I would like to argue your case (I would quote you, but I cant understand to what of my points your relating to).

I've always believed that, it wouldn't phase me in the slightest.

- Count yourself lucky that believing that this world is the "be all and end all", 'doesn't phase you'. If you fell to a terminal illness tomorrow, you wouldn't even contemplate an afterlife?

There are ~6.6 billion people on Earth, and not all of them are religious.

- Statistical error, there is no definitive number for the worlds population regardless. Atheism accounts for 2% of the total population.

No. Sweden is one of the most Atheistic countries in the world and also one of the most peaceful. Shock horror.

- Sweden is by no means a measure to how fanatic religious countries such as Israel, Afghanistan, India, even America, would react to how leaning their God does exist will affect them. Could be a coincidence that Athesim happens to be the dominant Religion of that country. Could also be coincidence that the Number One, more peaceful country in the world is 60% of a Religion.

Humans are animals. We are of the kingdom Animalia.

- I'm talking metaphorically. Also, who told we are apart of the Animal Kingdom? Scientists. I don't know about you, but I consider myself completely different to an Animal. The Animal Kingdom is just a crude umbrella in which to place us under.

You really don't give human morality any credit do you?

- No I don't give humanity morale credit. Without religions we are forced into facism, hence Caesar, Tse-Tung, Stalin, Hitler, Amine. These are the rule of the men who had no faith, no Religious conscriptions or beliefs.

I'm certainly going to say negative influence.

First I'm going to say I do believe in God and this isn't a hate-on religion all together, I just don't believe in a lot of the things different religions want me to believe and I think some of these things have influenced the world badly.

Churches have a horrible track record of being over controlling and the amount of deaths in the past caused by different religions fighting for control and power is absolutely sickening and disgusts me.

I'll pick on the catholic church here a second. I think it is absolutely outragous that females cannot be catholic priests. I think it's the absolute stupidest most sexist thing I have ever heard in my entire life. I think "God made man and woman equal" and it's pretty lame having sexist rules in a place where you worship god. Apparently they're only just starting to relax this rule now. Only a few hundred years too late.

The amount of Homophobia in the church and a lot of churches is very petty. Who do some of these people think they are. If two guys (or girls) fall in love then it's absolutely none of the churches business. If you're homophobic that's your own problem, but why publicly be homophobic thinking it's ok:eusa_wall. On WBZ news (a USA news station I pick up from Canada) there was seriously coverage on catholic churches with signs saying "homosexuality is a crime" and "god hates gays". I don't know how people who believe in god would think god still likes them after they put up a sign like that:S

I think if religion didn't exist there would be a lot less sexism, homophobia and you could probably throw less xenophobia in there too.

Then again, was the "womens liberation" movement that suddenly forced all women to think that being a Housewife, a mother is wrong and restrictive, rather than Religion.
These rules are set in place to try and protect Women as they are the womb that must give birth to God's most precious gift of all. Life.
Also, there are many mainstream religions that have no sex divides. Buddhism, Scientology, Hinduism, Humanism, Jainism, Sikhism - to name but a few.
It seems a bit cliché and ignorant to target the Catholic Church, it seems that this is the only religion being targeted at the moment.
As a Buddhist, this is not my best area to defend.

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Originally Posted by TaffTalk

I've always believed that, it wouldn't phase me in the slightest.

- Count yourself lucky that believing that this world is the "be all and end all", 'doesn't phase you'. If you fell to a terminal illness tomorrow, you wouldn't even contemplate an afterlife?

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Nope

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Originally Posted by TaffTalk

Humans are animals. We are of the kingdom Animalia.

- I'm talking metaphorically. Also, who told we are apart of the Animal Kingdom? Scientists. I don't know about you, but I consider myself completely different to an Animal. The Animal Kingdom is just a crude umbrella in which to place us under.

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I don't. To qualify as a member of the Kingdom Animalia you must be a (and I quote):

"multicellular, heterotrophic eukaryotes that digest food outside their cells and then absorb the digested nutrients"

Put simply: You have more than one cell, can only survive by digesting organic materials, your cells contain a nucleus surrounded by a membrane and your DNA is bound together by proteins into chromosomes. Your digestive system is not contained within a cell and you have the ability to remove nutrients from food.

A human who wasn't also an animal would have to be rather odd. But enough science, it's time for propoganda!

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Originally Posted by TaffTalk

You really don't give human morality any credit do you?

- No I don't give humanity morale credit. Without religions we are forced into facism, hence Caesar

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Originally Posted by http://www.unrv.com/culture/roman-religion.php

"Julius Caesar, having claimed to be a direct descendent of Aeneas, the son of Venus, was among the first to deify himself in such a manner."

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Originally Posted by TaffTalk

Tse-Tung

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Partial credit, Zedong was a Buddist and an Atheist later in life.

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Originally Posted by TaffTalk

Stalin

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Partial credit, Stalin was an Orthodox and an Atheist later in life.

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Originally Posted by TaffTalk

Hitler

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Godwins law, ding ding ding!

Hitler was a Roman Catholic. There is astounding amounts of evidence to back this up, however I'll just post the most obvious one. This is a belt buckle worn by the Wehrmacht (German army) in WWII:

http://www.claremontmckenna.edu/hist...age/buckle.jpg

Gott mit uns. God with us. Very atheistic, dohoho.

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Originally Posted by TaffTalk

Amine

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Time for some intellectual honesty, I have no idea who or what an Amine is outside of science, so I won't comment on him/her/them.

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Originally Posted by TaffTalk

These are the rule of the men who had no faith, no Religious conscriptions or beliefs.

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Wanna talk about the rule of people with faith? The Crusades? 9/11? Bush's illegal war on terror? Perhaps even the millions God himself killed in the bible?

I don't. To qualify as a member of the Kingdom Animalia you must be a (and I quote):

"multicellular, heterotrophic eukaryotes that digest food outside their cells and then absorb the digested nutrients"

Put simply: You have more than one cell, can only survive by digesting organic materials, your cells contain a nucleus surrounded by a membrane and your DNA is bound together by proteins into chromosomes. Your digestive system is not contained within a cell and you have the ability to remove nutrients from food.

- Like I said, the 'Animal Kingdom' is a phrase to umbrella us all into certain groups. This is simply an indicator into what group Science wishes for us to be under.

Godwins law, ding ding ding!

Hitler was a Roman Catholic. There is astounding amounts of evidence to back this up, however I'll just post the most obvious one. This is a belt buckle worn by the Wehrmacht (German army) in WWII:

-You would also know how Hitler was one of the most genius minds on the planet, and realised that the German people would always consider God as a higher importance, therefore it was necessary to appear to be a man of God. Hence, propaganda.

Hitler Youth marching song:

"We follow not Christ, but Horst Wessel,
Away with incense and Holy Water,
The Church can go hang for all we care,
The Swastika brings salvation on Earth".

Hitler also denounces Religion in 'Mein Kampf'.

"Religions are mainly for the benefit of the religious leaders, such as Bishops, Cardinals, and the Pope".

The 'Concordant' hits the final nail in the coffin as Hitler creates his own Religion, riddled with Nazism and fakery.

Time for some intellectual honesty, I have no idea who or what an Amine is outside of science, so I won't comment on him/her/them.

-My apologises, I spelt his name wrong, Idi Amin, the Ugandan dictator who used Islam as a way to defend his fascist regimes.

Wanna talk about the rule of people with faith? The Crusades? 9/11? Bush's illegal war on terror? Perhaps even the millions God himself killed in the bible?

- The Crusades, the attack on the twin towers leading to current war in Iraq are dwarfed by The Russian Revolution, Stalins Russian purges, WWI, WWII.

Like I said, I'm a Buddhist, therefore I can not defend who God killed in the Bible, I can say however, No wars have ever been fought in direct relation to Buddhism. One cornerstone in how Religion is a positive impact on society.

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Originally Posted by TaffTalk

Like I said, I'm a Buddhist, therefore I can not defend who God killed in the Bible, I can say however, No wars have ever been fought in direct relation to Buddhism.

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Nor Atheism.

Right umm this is an interesting topic may I say.

Ok to start digging my grave... jokes

But seriously there is no negative or positive to desribe all of the religions. Each religion is different and proclaims to their followers a different message. Buddhism and Christianity and both different therefore their members will be shown a different light on their lives and a different method of converting other people.

However. Muslims lately have decided they need to use extremist methods of violence and terrorism to convert other humans into Muslims and to follow Islam. I for one disagree with terrorist extremeists (and I'm sure most of you do) and would see this as a negative aspect on society.

I got forwarded a link on facebook, and I have to say I was fascinated, take a look at this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCp4r4pep9k
It shows that Islam is the fastest growing religion and that we can already see the affects of it, e.g churches turning into mosques, we have to bring out new laws that include Muslim people etc. and soon some very Christian countries will turn Muslim.

I'm Christian as you may have guessed and I say that depending on the religion and the people that are being taught how to spread the message, either a negative or positive affect will be spread upon society.

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Originally Posted by DrLacero

Nor Atheism.

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Revolutionary War, French/Indian War, Spanish Civil War, Napoleon Conquests, Mexican - American war, Italian invasion of Ethopia. Fought on the basis of decaying religious values or on no religious values at all.
Not to mention to 180 Million people executed by Stalin for being of a religion and the Holocaust.

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Originally Posted by DrLacero

Nor Atheism.

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Wasn't the Dutch versus. Spainish war considered unreligious? It was down to the Spainish having a foothold in Holland and/or the whole Netherlands, and they frankly had enough and fought them back, which aided England winning their war against the Spainish within Queen Elizabeth's reign :) Not that I disagree with the rest of what you said :P Though it's a bit vague to suggest all wars are purely for religious reasons, when that could be a contributing factor emerging from a religious minority backed by a factor of economic or land factors like the war that resulted in the Republic of Slovenia emerging and thus creating the republic in the 1980s (or 70s, quite recently).

Then again, it depends if all non-religious wars are purely athiestic wars, they could just be wars with a whole range of different contributing factors which all conflicted towards another group or country.

The Afghan and Iraq Wars for example, they're not purely religious wars, one half might say so, while the other half is to "protect the world" or oil, depending what your opinion is on them :P

I think religon is a postive influence.
First of all most of the laws of today did come from religon.

Also while there is people out there that do use religon in a negative way but there is alot more people who use religon in a postive way. Religon helps teach people to behave in a good way, to be kind, helpfull and loving. Without religon the world today would be very diffrent. It would just be a world full of money hungry people with no morals.

Religion wont really put a stop to any problems, if religon didnt exist then something else would take its place which would still cause the same problem.

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Originally Posted by TaffTalk

Revolutionary War

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No, the American Revolutionary War was over the American colonists not obeying the laws of the British parliament.

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Originally Posted by TaffTalk

French/Indian War

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No, that was over land and differences in ideology between Catholics and Church of England

Spanish Civil War

No, that was a corrupt monarchy and the Catalonia and Basque religions wanting independence which pissed off the Catholics.

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Originally Posted by TaffTalk

Napoleon Conquests

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No idea why Napoleon wanted an empire, why does anyone?

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Originally Posted by TaffTalk

Mexican - American war

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Border conflict over Texas.

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Originally Posted by TaffTalk

Italian invasion of Ethopia

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Mussolini wanted an empire, so he took on the poorly-armed Abyssinians, one of very few indipendant African countries.

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Originally Posted by TaffTalk

Fought on the basis of decaying religious values or on no religious values at all. Not to mention to 180 Million people executed by Stalin for being of a religion and the Holocaust.

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Holding of a religion was never outlawed and the Soviet Constitutions always guaranteed the right to believe. Most of the people Stalin killed were the Intelligencia and Aristos.

And where the hell did you get 180 million?

20 Million (Stalin) + 6 Million (Holocaust) = 26 Million.

Obviously religion has both a positive and negative influence on society, but I believe the positives greatly outweigh the negatives.

Primarily because of what TaffTalk was getting at; religion holds society together. I was having this discussion with a friend the other day and we were trying to imagine what the world would actually be like if the concept of religion had never been conceived. Society as we know it would be infinitely different, that's for sure.

Religion gives people hope (whether it is false or not is irrelevant), they still have some hope for when times get hard and helps people make the right decisions. Without the fear of God, this world would be an insane place to live. This is coming from an atheist, but I know for a fact that believing in God prevented me from doing some stupid stuff in the past and I think it set me on the path to being a better person.

Of course, you can't deny all the war and hatred that comes with religion. But I'm pretty sure we would be experiencing this on a much larger scale had there never been any religion in society. People have mentioned the value of human morality, but surely religion has an influence on that itself? What we call "right" and "wrong" has no doubt been highly influenced by religion whether we like it or not. We have no idea what sort of morals we would hold without it.

While I am disappointed that all the stuff I grew up learning about is not actually real (well, this is what I believe), once I'm dead, it won't make a difference. However, being brought up in a religious family is far better than some of the families I hear about on the news and even if I no longer agree with the fundamental beliefs, I still value what I have learned through religion about how to live my life.

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Originally Posted by DrLacero

No, the American Revolutionary War was over the American colonists not obeying the laws of the British parliament.



No, that was over land and differences in ideology between Catholics and Church of England

Spanish Civil War

No, that was a corrupt monarchy and the Catalonia and Basque religions wanting independence which pissed off the Catholics.



No idea why Napoleon wanted an empire, why does anyone?



Border conflict over Texas.



Mussolini wanted an empire, so he took on the poorly-armed Abyssinians, one of very few indipendant African countries.



Holding of a religion was never outlawed and the Soviet Constitutions always guaranteed the right to believe. Most of the people Stalin killed were the Intelligencia and Aristos.

And where the hell did you get 180 million?

20 Million (Stalin) + 6 Million (Holocaust) = 26 Million.

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Exactly all proof that wars exist outside of Religion, via Nationalism, Expansion and Racism.

Dr David Barrett; The Fruit of Atheism. A few extracts.


As Dr. James Kennedy in ”What If Jesus Had Never Been Born?” observes: ”That vacuum has been filled with the totalitarian state, the loss of freedom for millions, the concentration camp and the gulag, the rise of abortion, infanticide, euthanasia and suicide, crime out of all proportion, and the most savage wars in the history of the world.”

The triumph of secular humanism with its atheism, evolutionism and situation ethics has led to the rise of gangster statesmen such as Vladimir Lenin, Joseph Stalin, Mao Tse Tung, Fidel Castro, Pol Pot, Robert Mugabe and many more like them.

~~~Regarding the 180 Death toll~~~

Joseph Stalin was responsible for killing over 40 million people. Joseph Stalin closed down over 48 000 churches, and attempted the liquidation of the entire Christian Church.

Similarly, communist dictator of China Mao Tse Tung launched the Great Proletariat Cultural Revolution, ”History’s most systematic attempt ever, by a single nation, to eradicate and destroy Christianity…” Mao was responsible for killing about 72 million people.

The communist takeover of Cambodia in 1975 resulted in the death of up to 3 million people - a full third of the total population. When we add to these the death toll of communist regimes in Korea, Vietnam, Laos, Afghanistan, Ethiopia, Angola, Mozambique, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Cuba, and Zimbabwe, the body count is staggering.

As Dostoevsky so eloquently put it: ”If God is dead, then all things are possible!”

Extremely valid point:
The terrifying thing about secular atheism states is that there is no authority above the state to which one can make an appeal. The concept of ”inalienable rights” endowed by a Creator are of course impossible in a secular state. If the state itself is the highest authority, then there are no limits to the abuses and oppression that unrestrained human nature is capable of. The humanist state inevitably leads to tyranny and despotism.

Sergio also makes a good point about Religion giving people hope and faith.

I'm an atheist so it's going to be of no surprise my view on this but I think largely negative. I do have several reasons for this, many of which have probably been set out in this thread already but before I start, in reference to whoever wrote that without religion we'd all implode and start being generally lawless, just no. I've never had any belief in God or a higher power, and not once have I ever considered breaking the law or harming someone because of it.

Anyway, onto my reasons. Religion is negative because if you look at it, the majority of wars have some sort of religious undertone. How anyone can say they are representing their God in a war of all things is beyond me because as far as I know God said we should all get along.. so where's all this fighting coming from? Not to mention that it creates prejudices between religions which is again a negative. Religion also creates extremism, people who are willing to pretty much break every rule in their holy book in the name of their god.. which sort of negates the point to me.

Further to this, religion, organised at least, creates too many boundaries and rules, the majority of which limit a persons life because they are afraid of what might happen to them (heaven/hell etc). I don't believe that a person should have their life governed by something that they believe in, it should be solely a source of comfort, not fear.

As someone else has said, it creates disgusting stereotypes. Homophobia is supposedly wrong in almost every single mainstream religion and for someone who doesn't believe in God to see the hypocrisy of this beggers belief to me because some who follow it cannot see it. If God created us all as equals and loves us all, why would he hate gays? He wouldn't because that would make god a hypocrite and an omniscient being such as God is unlikely to be that is he? Again with the inequality of women, if womankind was made from Adam then how are we any different or less to a man? We aren't and yet certain religions see fit to impose that upon us, not so much now so but that is how it has been for centuries and is still the case in the church (as shown by the banning of women priests).


In order for balance to exist, I do think that religion has positives but they are largely outweighed by the negatives in my mind. Yes religion does provide a source of comfort for many, I know it did for my nanna and my mum when she died. I also know that it is often the religious charities that go out and help the homeless, the needy and even those who have been victims of natural disasters. Both of these are brilliant and religion should be applauded for providing it, but like I said, the other points I raised are stronger in my mind.


I've not really written that very well, been a long day and my words aren't coming out coherently but hopefully it makes some sense at least.

I understand what your saying Tash, I don't want to offend but once again your slipping into the classic mistake of thinking that only two religions exist - Islam and Christianity.

Religion is negative because if you look at it, the majority of wars have some sort of religious undertone. How anyone can say they are representing their God in a war of all things is beyond me because as far as I know God said we should all get along.

-Religion does play a huge role in warfare, and for this reason it is extremely positive. Consider this, no religion, no reason to try and justify a war in terms of Divinity, no higher power than the state.
Most leaders pepper speeches with Religion because they know that declaring a war needs to be religiously justified. In terms of the Roman Catholics, the minuet the Pope denounces the war, all support with fall apart.
Without anything higher than the state totalitarianism reigns. Classic example: The Third Reich. The fighting is coming from the perversion of holy scriptures by those who see that they need to overcome religion and make their cause appear just.

Religion also creates extremism, people who are willing to pretty much break every rule in their holy book in the name of their god.. which sort of negates the point to me

- You don't get more extreme than Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin, Lenin, Amin, Mugabe, Tse-Tung, amongst others. Your Atheist martyrs.

Further to this, religion, organised at least, creates too many boundaries and rules, the majority of which limit a persons life because they are afraid of what might happen to them (heaven/hell etc).

- A couple of laws that Religion try's to enforce, please outline which ones you think society would benefit from if it was seen as acceptable.

Ten Commandments (Foundation laws of Christianity and parts of Islam)

ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.' - Not to deny ones religion.

TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.' - Force people to believe you are high then God. (See: Charles I, Stalin, Amin)

THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.' - Manners.

FOUR: 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.' - A day of rest (Remember without Religion forget Religious international holidays, also forget Weekends, as Saturday and Sunday are the Sabbath days).

FIVE: 'Honor your father and your mother.' - If you don't do this already you should be ashamed.

SIX: 'You shall not murder.' - ...

SEVEN: 'You shall not commit adultery.' - Honouring marriage and relationships.

EIGHT: 'You shall not steal.' - ... even if its the only way I'm ever going to get an Aston Martin, Sigh.

NINE: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.' - To remain truthful.

TEN: 'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife. - The hardest of all to obey, we're talking the seven sins, particularly lust and envy.

The Ten Precepts (Buddhism)

Refrain from taking life. - ...
Refrain from stealing. - ...
Refrain from sexual misconduct. - Honouring relationships.
Refrain from lying. - ...
Refrain from using intoxicants. - For ones own health. Alternativley it is acceptable to drink alcohol aslong as one does not intoxicant themselves beyond mindset.
Refrain from gossiping. - ...
Refrain from praising oneself. - Arrogance.
Refrain from meanness. - ...
Refrain from aggression. - ...
Refrain from slandering the Three Jewels. - This is basically respecting each other and not denouncing ones self also.

Like I said, is it the murdering or the sexual deviance that you would think makes these simple rules restrictive?

Homophobia is supposedly wrong in almost every single mainstream religion and for someone who doesn't believe in God to see the hypocrisy of this beggers belief to me because some who follow it cannot see it.

- Like I said, I can think of one religion where this might be applied. I know for a fact that Christianity, Buddhism, Taoism, Conservative Judaism, Episcopal, United Church of Christ, Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterian, Puritan and Scientology are openly acceptable of homosexuality. This is your most valid point.

Hopefully I have enlightened a little bit to the common misconceptions.

Mostly positive. It's just extremeists who misinterpret the bible etc and use it for their own selfish means that I have a problem with. In general, religion is good, it can give people a sense of purpose in life and that should not be discouraged.

Those who commit crimes in the name of their god are a disgrace to their religion.

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Originally Posted by TaffTalk

Positive.

Imagine being told there is no God, no afterlife, this is it. Your one and only chance.
Society would imploud. The 7 Billion People in the world who believe in faith would kill, rape, steal and rob their way to the best life they could get, as this is their only chance.
Religion is what separates us from the animals.

Like it or not, without Religion, there would be no need to conform to any society, to any law. War would be a thing of the past, war would be routine.

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I think the punishment of incarceration, or, in some countries, execution, is what prevents people from committing crime, not religion lol.

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Originally Posted by TaffTalk

I understand what your saying Tash, I don't want to offend but once again your slipping into the classic mistake of thinking that only two religions exist - Islam and Christianity.

Religion is negative because if you look at it, the majority of wars have some sort of religious undertone. How anyone can say they are representing their God in a war of all things is beyond me because as far as I know God said we should all get along.

-Religion does play a huge role in warfare, and for this reason it is extremely positive. Consider this, no religion, no reason to try and justify a war in terms of Divinity, no higher power than the state.
Most leaders pepper speeches with Religion because they know that declaring a war needs to be religiously justified. In terms of the Roman Catholics, the minuet the Pope denounces the war, all support with fall apart.
Without anything higher than the state totalitarianism reigns. Classic example: The Third Reich. The fighting is coming from the perversion of holy scriptures by those who see that they need to overcome religion and make their cause appear just.

Religion also creates extremism, people who are willing to pretty much break every rule in their holy book in the name of their god.. which sort of negates the point to me

- You don't get more extreme than Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin, Lenin, Amin, Mugabe, Tse-Tung, amongst others. Your Atheist martyrs.

Further to this, religion, organised at least, creates too many boundaries and rules, the majority of which limit a persons life because they are afraid of what might happen to them (heaven/hell etc).

- A couple of laws that Religion try's to enforce, please outline which ones you think society would benefit from if it was seen as acceptable.

Ten Commandments (Foundation laws of Christianity and parts of Islam)

ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.' - Not to deny ones religion.

TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.' - Force people to believe you are high then God. (See: Charles I, Stalin, Amin)

THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.' - Manners.

FOUR: 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.' - A day of rest (Remember without Religion forget Religious international holidays, also forget Weekends, as Saturday and Sunday are the Sabbath days).

FIVE: 'Honor your father and your mother.' - If you don't do this already you should be ashamed.

SIX: 'You shall not murder.' - ...

SEVEN: 'You shall not commit adultery.' - Honouring marriage and relationships.

EIGHT: 'You shall not steal.' - ... even if its the only way I'm ever going to get an Aston Martin, Sigh.

NINE: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.' - To remain truthful.

TEN: 'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife. - The hardest of all to obey, we're talking the seven sins, particularly lust and envy.

The Ten Precepts (Buddhism)

Refrain from taking life. - ...
Refrain from stealing. - ...
Refrain from sexual misconduct. - Honouring relationships.
Refrain from lying. - ...
Refrain from using intoxicants. - For ones own health. Alternativley it is acceptable to drink alcohol aslong as one does not intoxicant themselves beyond mindset.
Refrain from gossiping. - ...
Refrain from praising oneself. - Arrogance.
Refrain from meanness. - ...
Refrain from aggression. - ...
Refrain from slandering the Three Jewels. - This is basically respecting each other and not denouncing ones self also.

Like I said, is it the murdering or the sexual deviance that you would think makes these simple rules restrictive?

Homophobia is supposedly wrong in almost every single mainstream religion and for someone who doesn't believe in God to see the hypocrisy of this beggers belief to me because some who follow it cannot see it.

- Like I said, I can think of one religion where this might be applied. I know for a fact that Christianity, Buddhism, Taoism, Conservative Judaism, Episcopal, United Church of Christ, Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterian, Puritan and Scientology are openly acceptable of homosexuality. This is your most valid point.

Hopefully I have enlightened a little bit to the common misconceptions.

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I actually wasn't considering only 2 religions, I was considering at least 3. The most recent wars are fought between traditionally christian and muslim countries (UK/US v Iraq/Afganistan). However, in my mind was also the conflicts between muslims and hindus which have also caused thousands if not millions of deaths over the years.

I don't get your point about the wars though. Wars do not automatically stop just because the Pope denounces them. He has no real influence on anyone outside of catholicism. His opinion matters nought to me or to anyone of a different religion. And any person or regime who is hell bent on starting a war does not need any real justification other than what he/she feels is necessary.

You again used examples of people who were almost all at one point part of a religion. The fact that they turned against it does not take away the fact that Hitler especially used his hatred of a certain religion (or race as he saw it) to massacre millions of people.

There is nothing wrong with the rules you posted, those weren't what I referred to. What I meant for example was someone of the islamic faith having to pray a certain amount of times a day, having to fast etc.. that imposes time constraints on your life and without religion they wouldn't be there.

And finally, Christianity (I can't comment on the others because i've not looked into it) does not as a whole accept homosexuals. There is outrage when there is news of a gay priest, many don't believe that a promise between two men/women means as much as one between a man and a woman.. I need not go on because the inequality is now clear.

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Originally Posted by Tash.

You again used examples of people who were almost all at one point part of a religion. The fact that they turned against it does not take away the fact that Hitler especially used his hatred of a certain religion (or race as he saw it) to massacre millions of people.

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Simply these are the best examples and easily recognisable, others, pure Atheists if that's what you want, include; Maximillion Robespierre (Promptly butchered 40,000 people upon gaining his country in the name of Atheism), Kim II Sung (Massacred 5 Million), Mao Zedong (40 Million).. etc.. etch..

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Originally Posted by Tash.

And finally, Christianity (I can't comment on the others because i've not looked into it) does not as a whole accept homosexuals. There is outrage when there is news of a gay priest, many don't believe that a promise between two men/women means as much as one between a man and a woman.. I need not go on because the inequality is now clear.

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I think you mean the Roman Catholic Church is reluctant to view Homosexuality, however this has changed, as current cardinal members are openly homosexual. Puritan, Anglican, Presbyterian, Baptist, Quaker, Brethren, Jehovah etc. are all acceptian of Homosexuals. There is more than one church...

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Originally Posted by Inseriousity.

Mostly positive. It's just extremeists who misinterpret the bible etc and use it for their own selfish means that I have a problem with. In general, religion is good, it can give people a sense of purpose in life and that should not be discouraged.

Those who commit crimes in the name of their god are a disgrace to their religion.

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I think you mean the Qur'an or w.e

There's not been many Christian extremists lately :P

I would say racisim plays a big part in it.
For example say your in school and someones being racist towards you your not just going to stand there and take it ? people just get sick of it after a while until they eventualy break. It's hard to ignore it because it happens all the time.

Not too sure on this, but negative?

Manily because of how all people cannot get along. This world is full of different people, different religions, beliefs, cultures, etc. People are never and most probably will never be excepted for the way they are. A main thing i'd point out as outstanding due to the amount of people committing to it, is racism. It's only a colour of your skin. Like how some black people hate white people, and some white hate black. It's like saying you have blue eyes I don't like you... I see it as only a feature, just like everything else on your body. Some people's eyes are green some are blue.

People will always argue over there beliefs. How each religion believes a different way in which the world was made. It will never be a win win where we stick to our beliefs and they stick to they're's, there will always be constructive critisism over it. Another thing which crosses my mind is Homophobia. Christians believe in the eyes of 'Gods' words, that a man shall never lay beside another man. Sure, but if a man falls in love with a man or a woman falls in love with a woman, hows that to be helped? Feelings cannot always be controlled. And as for what David said above, how can people say to Gays/Lesbians and Bisexuals that god hates gays, meaning god hates you is constructive enough to say that it is really wrong. God surely wouldn't like them if they said that? I could rabble on more but I wont.

I officially agree with David. If there was no religon there would be less sexism, homophobia, racism, etc. As we would all believe in one thing, but not have rules related to that religon pulled over our eyes for believing it.

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Originally Posted by Ardemax

There's not been many Christian extremists lately :P

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http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/m...7-_447437a.jpg

The ones there are are bad enough.

Well Ghandi was religious and he had a massive (and positive) effect on the world.
Martin Luther king also had a huge impact and changed America for the better.

On a whole I don't agree with religion, but some good can come of it.