Should we get rid of the "User Note system"?

Some time ago, we chose to introduce the system of PMing members with a warning before we issued a yellow card warning. At the time, it seemed this was a good way of letting members know where they have gone wrong before we issue what seems to be a punishment. They essentially adopted the real purpose of the warnings because members felt that a warning on your profile was quite a harsh form of punishment.

The benefits include the ability to physically see what is on your "record" and it also makes administration for the moderation team easier.

Whilst I am not particularly inclined either way, I am curious to know what our members think of this system. The poll options provided include a possible alternatives to this system.

I must stress that the results of this poll will not necessarily reflect action taken. The point of this poll is to gauge member opinion.

the systems fine imo. it's easier for moderators to keep track on a users rule-breaking history and with it in place, the whole 'punishment' system is generally more lenient as theres a step before users receive a warning.

If it ain't broke, why fix it? :)

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Originally Posted by preposterous

the systems fine imo. it's easier for moderators to keep track on a users rule-breaking history and with it in place, the whole 'punishment' system is generally more lenient as theres a step before users receive a warning.

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It's far easier for Moderators to keep track if all rule breaks were kept on the infractions page in the form of a warning. When the system was introduced, warnings were essentially supposed to play the role that user notes play today. Of course the main reason I am not too inclined to do it is, despite the fact they aren't supposed to be, warnings are perceived as something quite bad!

keep it the way it is
much betta

It would be easier for Moderators to just issue a warning tbh. Right now they have to go to the usernotes page, look through them to see when/if the person was warned for it. Then write a PM, send it, copy and paste it.

Would be easier if they checked the profile, and then just issued a warning or whatever. It saves them time too as they dont have to issue a PM and then copy and paste it.
This way people can see their exact record and have an idea.

Delete all expired warnings/infractions after a year.

Simples.

I think we should keep the system, I don't like not being able to see my usernotes (if I even have any?), but I guess it's better than receiving a warning straight away.

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Originally Posted by Inseriousity.

If it ain't broke, why fix it? :)

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I am so SICK of people using that phrase on here.

keep it, but let us see them

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Originally Posted by Blob

keep it, but let us see them

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This. ^

I know this is a bump but this thread wasn't given justice in my opinion! I think you should scrap the user note system or if not let use be able to see what we've got. I know we get a PM but if you get a PM every couple of weeks it doesn't take long for them to build up and although you have been told you have a usernote (you get a PM) it's incredibly confusing. It would make people stick to the rules more. The system isn't bad it's just frustrating and confusing as to why we're not allowed to see them ourselves? I personally don't understand why we can't. What's the official reason for this?

I think we should keep the usernote system. It certainly made things alot easier when I was a moderator to see who needs what type of punishment. Also, think about the amount of people who will get annoyed because of the straight forward yellow card warning. A polite PM can sometimes be enough to deter a user from breaking the same rule. I think it's fine as it is.

Yeah i wanna see mine lol......... other users seem to be able to see mine (lol) but i cant
If i seen my very very very few usernotes i wouldn't break rules as much

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Originally Posted by sex

Yeah i wanna see mine lol......... other users seem to be able to see mine (lol) but i cant
If i seen my very very very few usernotes i wouldn't break rules as much

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this. i honestly can't for the life of me understand why we aren't allowed to see our running total to boast about.

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Originally Posted by doherty

I know this is a bump but this thread wasn't given justice in my opinion! I think you should scrap the user note system or if not let use be able to see what we've got. I know we get a PM but if you get a PM every couple of weeks it doesn't take long for them to build up and although you have been told you have a usernote (you get a PM) it's incredibly confusing. It would make people stick to the rules more. The system isn't bad it's just frustrating and confusing as to why we're not allowed to see them ourselves? I personally don't understand why we can't. What's the official reason for this?

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You could be cutting you nose off to spite your face here. Mods have a lot more discretion with minor rule breaks under the present system to issue another pm. If usernotes were scrapped I can see members who rule break regularly getting banned a lot quicker. I feel this present system is a lot fairer on members. As stated before user notes are just copies of pms which you could save to a folder if you want and there is nothing stopping you pm'ing somebody to find out how many you have.

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

You could be cutting you nose off to spite your face here. Mods have a lot more discretion with minor rule breaks under the present system to issue another pm. If usernotes were scrapped I can see members who rule break regularly getting banned a lot quicker. I feel this present system is a lot fairer on members. As stated before user notes are just copies of pms which you could save to a folder if you want and there is nothing stopping you pm'ing somebody to find out how many you have.

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Yeah, I understand completely but it wouldn't happen if I could see. Look at my old account, I had a few infractions, a few warning and 1 billion usernotes. I made sure I didn't get warnings/infractions because I knew how many I had. If I knew about usernotes and thought "OK I have too much" I'd try even harder to keep within the rules. I did ask on my Immenseman account how many I had and told they weren't allowed to be disclosed. I don't know if they should be scrapped Rosie, I imagine they're very useful for the moderation team but maybe the same system but we could see them ourselves.

Back when I was an smod the system was the you break a rule you get a warning/infraction. Then it changed to usernotes and I left a bit after. I preferred giving users warnings.

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Originally Posted by doherty

Yeah, I understand completely but it wouldn't happen if I could see. Look at my old account, I had a few infractions, a few warning and 1 billion usernotes. I made sure I didn't get warnings/infractions because I knew how many I had. If I knew about usernotes and thought "OK I have too much" I'd try even harder to keep within the rules. I did ask on my Immenseman account how many I had and told they weren't allowed to be disclosed. I don't know if they should be scrapped Rosie, I imagine they're very useful for the moderation team but maybe the same system but we could see them ourselves.

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Well that is obviously not a decision for me but they are obviously vital to the mod team otherwise we could issue harsher penalties than are necessary. Too much is made of user note 'confidentiality' I feel as it is just a record of a pm.

i put indifferent cause i don't know what it is :(

when sav showed me mine catzsy they were nothing like the pms i had gotten

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

Well that is obviously not a decision for me but they are obviously vital to the mod team otherwise we could issue harsher penalties than are necessary. Too much is made of user note 'confidentiality' I feel as it is just a record of a pm.

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First time I've agreed with you in many moons, I think. Too much is made, I agree. I'm assuming it's just a tick box option that lets us see them that could be altered within seconds by Matt or Jin or whoever. Obviously, I could be wrong. I know the counter argument is "you get the PM and therefore the record of the usernote" but it would be really helpful to me and others if we were allowed to access them on our user CP. Maybe a new poll could be created - Should we be given access to our usernotes? - or something similar. Just a thought.

I genuinely find it bizarre that they're kept from us, when they're about us.

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Originally Posted by sex

when sav showed me mine catzsy they were nothing like the pms i had gotten

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Sorry Graham I find that hard to believe. Let me get this right - you are saying that mods send different pms to the ones they post as a user note?

@ abi -

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i put indifferent cause i don't know what it is

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It explains here what user notes are:
http://www.habboxforum.com/faq.php?f..._mod_usernotes

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What are usernotes?
Usernotes are used by (Super) Moderators and Administrators to record Private Messages that have been sent to the member regarding any rule breaking that has been committed.

For example:

You double post and a (Super) Moderator notices this offence. They then send you a PM to you of what rule you have broken and they will then post this in the usernotes for future references.

However, if you have already been contacted regarding the same offence you will either get a warning for straight infraction depending on the infraction option.

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@ Jake I don't think we are on the same wave length here. I meant that members make too much of it as they are just copies of pms. You can always discuss them with the Forum Manager.

I thought user notes were a copy of the PM sent?

not but i had ones that were like extremely rude to staff or something like that and i looked at my pms and could only find "mildly inappropriate"

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Originally Posted by Blob

keep it, but let us see them

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Agreed

ooo them i got one of you catzy before -whistles

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Originally Posted by sex

not but i had ones that were like extremely rude to staff or something like that and i looked at my pms and could only find "mildly inappropriate"

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So are you saying that no user notes were kept of the 'extremely rude to staff' ones or that Mods were sending you different pms to those posted as user notes. It makes a great deal of difference.

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

@ Jake I don't think we are on the same wave length here. I meant that members make too much of it as they are just copies of pms. You can always discuss them with the Forum Manager.

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oh lol, misunderstood your post. I don't think you should generalise all members either, elitism has already been acknowledged as a problem here and saying "members make too much of it" isn't really helping that but that's a whole new different thing. If they are just a copy of PMs (PMs which we have to delete due to the low amount we're allowed to keep) why can't we see them. PMs have to be deleted when maximum is met, user notes won't be.

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Originally Posted by doherty

oh lol, misunderstood your post. I don't think you should generalise all members either, elitism has already been acknowledged as a problem here and saying "members make too much of it" isn't really helping that but that's a whole new different thing. If they are just a copy of PMs (PMs which we have to delete due to the low amount we're allowed to keep) why can't we see them. PMs have to be deleted when maximum is met, user notes won't be.

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Well you do see them as they are copies of pms but I do feel you have a point about them being deleted at some point. I am not sure how much of a task this would be. Yes I should have been more specific and say some members -you are right.

usernotes should expire also. or am i asking too much now :L

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Originally Posted by doherty

usernotes should expire also. or am i asking too much now :L

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Well I think that is a valid point that should be considered formally as a personal view but we do use our common sense and not take notice of old ones.

Yeah. Anyway I don't think this poll is much use as it would appear there is more of an interest in the current system staying but allowing members to view their own. Does anybody technically minded know if this can be done with ease or not? Would be helpful before I labour the point any further.

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Originally Posted by doherty

Yeah. Anyway I don't think this poll is much use as it would appear there is more of an interest in the current system staying but allowing members to view their own. Does anybody technically minded know if this can be done with ease or not? Would be helpful before I labour the point any further.

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It is possible so members can view user notes about themselves. Not too sure If I like the idea of this happening but shall keep checking back for peoples views regarding it all.

Can I ask why not, Matt? Don't have to go in much detail, I'm just curious why people shouldn't see their own usernotes in one place as and when they want too.

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Originally Posted by doherty

Can I ask why not, Matt? Don't have to go in much detail, I'm just curious why people shouldn't see their own usernotes in one place as and when they want too.

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Well to myself and I don't know about others in the department think but I feel that they are a moderation tool and the only thing members should see is the PM they get sent when breaking the forum rules. I also don't think it would benefit users that much really. Hmmm

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Originally Posted by MattGarner

Well to myself and I don't know about others in the department but I feel that they are a moderation tool and the only thing members should see is the PM they get sent when breaking the forum rules. I also don't think it would benefit users that much really. Hmmm

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I agree and it would be interesting to know what benefits members feel it would have apart from the fact they could see them. Also for such a big move what support would the move have?

I don't see why a thread can't be created. If it's that easy to implement. If I'm wrong then I'll happily admit that but I mentioned this a good 6-8 months ago and was rejected so was pleasantly surprised to see this thread, suggesting it could be changed if the members want. Obviously the decision is with senior management and they'll have the final decision. However, it would benefit people who get usernotes because:

- They would be there forever and you'll constantly be reminded
- We have limited PM space, we have to delete these usernotes
- We'll be able to make sure they're fair and understand them more
- We can assess our own behaviour rather than just relying on PMs which you forget are negative sanctions (people have been banned on usernotes so don't tell me they're not punishments)

[QUOTE=doherty;6465024]I don't see why a thread can't be created. If it's that easy to implement. If I'm wrong then I'll happily admit that but I mentioned this a good 6-8 months ago and was rejected so was pleasantly surprised to see this thread, suggesting it could be changed if the members want. Obviously the decision is with senior management and they'll have the final decision. However, it would benefit people who get usernotes because:

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- They would be there forever and you'll constantly be reminded
- We have limited PM space, we have to delete these usernotes

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Well making a folder on your PC and C&Ping them would have the same effect.

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- We'll be able to make sure they're fair and understand them more

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They are copies of what you get :S

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- We can assess our own behaviour rather than just relying on PMs which you forget are negative sanctions (people have been banned on usernotes so don't tell me they're not punishments)

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Well I see them as reminders as opposed to 'punishments' but most members ( and I am not generalising here)
only need one or two pms to make sure they read and comply with the rules. Manual bans have always been in existence and can be appealed.

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Originally Posted by sex

when sav showed me mine catzsy they were nothing like the pms i had gotten

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I only showed you the titles... and all about one topic to prove my point to you, nothing else.
I just re-checked yours and there's no "extremely rude to staff".

Usernotes are a moderation tool and will remain like that, there's no need for members to see them whatsoever. Matt and Catzsy are correct.