Wanting to get into rap

I'm always getting told how good rap is, especially some of the older stuff. I know I hate rappers such as 50 cent because they just seem really fake. I mainly listen to dance music, I like The Prodigy, David Guetta, Cascada, Scooter etc but songs like B.O.B's latest and Eminem's have made me realise I also quite like rap. So what makes a good rap song, is it the lyrics, the beat, the rhyming? If anyone could recommend me some good rap artists and maybe name some songs or a specific album I'd appreciate it. :)

i think its a combination of the beat and the lyrics tbh
if youre missing one of the other then the song isnt really up to much

Jay-Z and maybe Sean Kingston are the only rap artists that come to mind (all the others i think of are hip hop or something)

I don't like Sean Kingston but I'll try some of Jay-z's songs.

firstly, rap and hip-hop are virtually the same thing. the only distinction is that "rapping" is what an MC will do over a beat, while "hip-hop" is the music and production as a whole. there's such thing as instrumental hip-hop, such as the avalanches, RJD2, etc, however there is no such thing as instrumental rap, since rap implies there is an MC spitting over it. i'd suggest reading about the history of hip-hop, which i find truly fascinating.

hip hop is an incredibly diverse genre. what usually turns people off of it are "fake" rappers, like you said, like 50 cent, solja boy, all those idiots who dont know anything. what makes a "good" rap song really depends on who it is. some rappers prefer minimalist and basic production in order to focus their songs more on their ability to tell stories and their wit. others choose lush, complex and atmospheric production in order to create a soundscape to match their lyrics. neither is wrong and both can be compelling

if youve never really been too acquainted with the genre, it'd probably be best to first listen to where it started and really took off in modern form. (such as if someone had never heard rock music before, it probably wouldnt be the best idea to introduce it to them with slayer, but rather the beatles or something). i'd suggest for starters:

"illmatic" by nas (1993, probably the most influential rap album ever, as well as one of the best)
"paul's boutique" by the beastie boys (1989, yes, the beastie boys, also a very influential album)
"it takes a nation of millions to hold us back" by public enemy (1988, a very dated record now, but still great nonetheless)

the reason i like hip-hop so much is because it has built a gigantic social community that no other genre of music has ever had before (rappers guest on other rappers' songs, producers make beats for countless MCs), and has basically built its own language. but because of this, it can be a hard genre to decipher and understand at first, especially with certain rappers who are constantly referencing. it took me years to truly understand the scope of everything in it, so it takes time. just find what you like and go from there, be it backwards or forwards.

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Originally Posted by RedStratocas

firstly, rap and hip-hop are virtually the same thing. the only distinction is that "rapping" is what an MC will do over a beat, while "hip-hop" is the music and production as a whole. there's such thing as instrumental hip-hop, such as the avalanches, RJD2, etc, however there is no such thing as instrumental rap, since rap implies there is an MC spitting over it. i'd suggest reading about the history of hip-hop, which i find truly fascinating.

hip hop is an incredibly diverse genre. what usually turns people off of it are "fake" rappers, like you said, like 50 cent, solja boy, all those idiots who dont know anything. what makes a "good" rap song really depends on who it is. some rappers prefer minimalist and basic production in order to focus their songs more on their ability to tell stories and their wit. others choose lush, complex and atmospheric production in order to create a soundscape to match their lyrics. neither is wrong and both can be compelling

if youve never really been too acquainted with the genre, it'd probably be best to first listen to where it started and really took off in modern form. (such as if someone had never heard rock music before, it probably wouldnt be the best idea to introduce it to them with slayer, but rather the beatles or something). i'd suggest for starters:

"illmatic" by nas (1993, probably the most influential rap album ever, as well as one of the best)
"paul's boutique" by the beastie boys (1989, yes, the beastie boys, also a very influential album)
"it takes a nation of millions to hold us back" by public enemy (1988, a very dated record now, but still great nonetheless)

the reason i like hip-hop so much is because it has built a gigantic social community that no other genre of music has ever had before (rappers guest on other rappers' songs, producers make beats for countless MCs), and has basically built its own language. but because of this, it can be a hard genre to decipher and understand at first, especially with certain rappers who are constantly referencing. it took me years to truly understand the scope of everything in it, so it takes time. just find what you like and go from there, be it backwards or forwards.

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Thanks very much for this. I have Nas's Illmatic downloading at the moment, should be done shortly and I will listen to this first since you mentioned it being perhaps the best display of rap ever. +rep when I can.

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Originally Posted by Apple

Thanks very much for this. I have Nas's Illmatic downloading at the moment, should be done shortly and I will listen to this first since you mentioned it being perhaps the best display of rap ever. +rep when I can.

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no prob! again, hip hop is really really diverse, and some people like very specific types. i have some friends that listen to exclusively underground/alternative hip-hop like aesop rock, mf doom, early mos def. and even if now you dont find yourself interested in so-called "gangsta rap," you may find yourself listening to it in the future because it'll make more sense to you than just hearing "guns, hos, money money money." a few years ago i'd have never imagined myself listening to something as gritty and thuggish as wu-tang clan, but now they're one of the pillars of my taste. eventually, you start seeing gangster rap in the same way you see gangster movies or tv shows; listening to it doesnt mean you find that lifestyle appealing or even reasonable, in the same way you don't find the lives of people in violent movies appealing or reasonable, its all about entertainment.

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Originally Posted by RedStratocas

no prob! again, hip hop is really really diverse, and some people like very specific types. i have some friends that listen to exclusively underground/alternative hip-hop like aesop rock, mf doom, early mos def. and even if now you dont find yourself interested in so-called "gangsta rap," you may find yourself listening to it in the future because it'll make more sense to you than just hearing "guns, hos, money money money." a few years ago i'd have never imagined myself listening to something as gritty and thuggish as wu-tang clan, but now they're one of the pillars of my taste. eventually, you start seeing gangster rap in the same way you see gangster movies or tv shows; listening to it doesnt mean you find that lifestyle appealing or even reasonable, in the same way you don't find the lives of people in violent movies appealing or reasonable, its all about entertainment.

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Love it!! I was positive I had heard N.Y. Stafe Of Mind before and now I remember, it was in GTA IV. If I like this then could you recommend any other artists who produce music similar to this please? Also when I was younger I always remember my older brother playing rap/hip hop in is car, back then I hated it but now I'm thinking I should try listening to some of the songs he'd always play again. I can always remember him mentioning people such as DMX, 2pac, eminem (obviously I know some of his songs) and Jay-Z. I have heard some of Jay-Z's latest such as Young Forever and Empire State of Mind and love them.

I personally prefer gangster rap, artists being Ice T, NWA, Public Enemy, KRSone etc.
G-funk is great too and usually gets played in some clubs still aswell, look at the doggystyle album from 1993, the chronic 1992 for the very best of g-funk.

Ne-Yo - Beautiful Monster (Not rap, but R&B)

Eminem is a good choice, Love the way you lie is amazing.

Kanye West?

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Originally Posted by Mkuu

I personally prefer gangster rap, artists being Ice T, NWA, Public Enemy, KRSone etc.
G-funk is great too and usually gets played in some clubs still aswell, look at the doggystyle album from 1993, the chronic 1992 for the very best of g-funk.

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I actually know some G-Funk, well I know 1 song.. Regulate by Warren G. :)

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Originally Posted by ShazLouise

Ne-Yo - Beautiful Monster (Not rap, but R&B)

Eminem is a good choice, Love the way you lie is amazing.

Kanye West?

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I like eminem's old stuff, it just sounds good, his voice isn't weird.. and yes.

Girls by D12 is a good diss song imo

Don't listen to eminem, keep it gangster and old school. ;)

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Originally Posted by Apple

Love it!! I was positive I had heard N.Y. Stafe Of Mind before and now I remember, it was in GTA IV. If I like this then could you recommend any other artists who produce music similar to this please? Also when I was younger I always remember my older brother playing rap/hip hop in is car, back then I hated it but now I'm thinking I should try listening to some of the songs he'd always play again. I can always remember him mentioning people such as DMX, 2pac, eminem (obviously I know some of his songs) and Jay-Z. I have heard some of Jay-Z's latest such as Young Forever and Empire State of Mind and love them.

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well good! yes, "empire state of mind" is actually purposefully in reference to nas's song (jay z and nas were in a feud for almost 10 years, but have since made nice). jay z is a good rapper to listen to, his recent stuff is actually not as great as his older songs. you could start with either "reasonable doubt," which is his debut breakthrough album from 96, or the original "blueprint," which is usually cited as his best. however, "the black album" is probably my favorite of his albums. for other 90's rappers, really you can just go with ones you already probably heard of, like biggie, wu-tang clan, big pun, etc. i'd personally recommend "only built 4 cuban linx" by raekwon, which is one of the best solo wu-tang albums. as a heads up, anywhere from 20% to 40% of any wu-tang album is inaudible/incomprehensible/gibberish lol, but trust me they've been the most compelling rap group of the past 20 years.

for more recent artists, personally im a huge kanye west fan. he's not really the greatest rapper around, but he's certainly one of the best producers and song makers of the past 10 years (he started out as a producer for jay-z). he changed the game as well, before him gangster rap was the only way to make it big in hip-hop, he started the trend of writing more about middle-class problems, self consciousness and things more relatable to people who weren't necessarily from the streets. he's not as much about pure flow and rhyming, he tries more to stay on topic and makes sure you can hear everything he says. his lyrics can be incredibly thoughtful. also, i find it awesome that he's the only real rapper who doesnt have a stage name. start with either "the college dropout," his debut, or "late registration," which is one of my favorite albums ever.

i dont mean to overwhelm you with info and suggestions lol, but if you want something REALLY recent, id highly suggest big boi's (from outkast) new solo album that came out a few weeks ago, it's one of the best hip hop albums ive heard in a long time, in terms of production its a masterpiece.

Well you've got Eminem who brings something new to the table with every Album, Drake whose just got his foot in the door but has made a great impression on me, Lil Waynes got Carter 4 comin' out in a few months which is said to be incredible, 2Pac isn't my favourite of rappers but he's quite well liked by most so you might aswell give him a listen, Yelawolf is another white rapper who is getting quite a lot of attention at the moment and Iron Solomon is a pretty good underground MC who is really impressive at first but later you realize he's a fake and isn't free styling at all - everything he says is rehersed (N)

I had eminem, nas and 2pac discographies downloading over night. When people say biggie vs 2pac are they saying which is the greatest rapper of all time or do they just get compared because they were enemies and both from the same time? I've listened to 2pacs greatest hits as I figured I couldn't go wrong and it is amazing, some of the best music I have heard in a long time. When I was younger I always remember songs such as without me, my name is, real slim shady, guilty conscience, who knew from eminem as they were always playing everywhere so it's gonna be interesting to see what his other older stuff from back then was like. This eminem discography didn't include his latest album with rihana but I have a couple of singles from that anyway. I've found 2 nas songs that I love, hate me now and hero. Thanks for the advice anyway now I finally have some new music to listen to.

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Originally Posted by Apple

I had eminem, nas and 2pac discographies downloading over night. When people say biggie vs 2pac are they saying which is the greatest rapper of all time or do they just get compared because they were enemies and both from the same time? I've listened to 2pacs greatest hits as I figured I couldn't go wrong and it is amazing, some of the best music I have heard in a long time. When I was younger I always remember songs such as without me, my name is, real slim shady, guilty conscience, who knew from eminem as they were always playing everywhere so it's gonna be interesting to see what his other older stuff from back then was like. This eminem discography didn't include his latest album with rihana but I have a couple of singles from that anyway. I've found 2 nas songs that I love, hate me now and hero. Thanks for the advice anyway now I finally have some new music to listen to.

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well the key factor of pac vs. biggie is west coast vs. east coast. hip hop originated on the east coast but west coast rappers like tupac were first starting to come up around the same time, and pac and biggie were very close in terms of popularity. basically your rapper represented you in the same way a sports team would represent you, minus that fact that there's no definitive winning or losing.

as for eminem, really all you need is everything up to the eminem show. honestly after that is when he really starts going downhill in my opinion. i mean if you like his new stuff thats cool, but even people who like his new stuff can't deny that the marshall mathers and slim shady lps are his peak and he'll never be that good again.

I honestly can't stand eminem, he songs just remind me of parodies and i absolutely hate his voice.

Have you tried listening to the westcoast gangster rap yet pal?

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Originally Posted by Mkuu

I honestly can't stand eminem, he songs just remind me of parodies and i absolutely hate his voice.

Have you tried listening to the westcoast gangster rap yet pal?

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Westcoast gangster rap? Artists like Biggie Smalls I am guessing?

Also I agree that Eminems older stuff are his best. If I love 2pac and biggie is similar then I will download his discography too, not now though my internet is going slow as it is.

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Originally Posted by RedStratocas

it took me years to truly understand the scope of everything in it, so it takes time.

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I can't imagine there ever being a time when anyone totally understands what Ghostface is on about haha

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Originally Posted by RedStratocas

anywhere from 20% to 40% of any wu-tang album is inaudible/incomprehensible/gibberish

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Yakoo! Maker and creator of the devil! Swine merchant, your time is near at hand. **** with me, and your time will be now. Your presence here affects the mind of my people like a fever. You, Yakoo, are the bearer of 9,999 diseases: evil, corrupt pork-chop-eating atrocities!

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Originally Posted by Apple

Westcoast gangster rap? Artists like Biggie Smalls I am guessing?

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Nope that's East coast (which is superior) :P think he was on about people like Ice Cube and Dr Dre who do have some banging albums which are often perhaps easier to listen to than the NY style stuff, but as a lyricist I prefer East coast because they do tend to have a better lyrical style for the most part. That's not to say that you shouldn't get into the West coast too, like I say they got some great albums (AmeriKKKa's Most Wanted for one) so yeah shop around :D you like Tupac and he was West coast so quite likely you'll enjoy a few of them.
DMX was mentioned in passing earlier in the thread somewhere, getting hold of It's Dark And Hell Is Hot will let you know if you like his style as it's probably his best work, Nas you said you got the discography so that's always gonna be good listening, Doe Or Die by AZ is an amazing album from possibly the most underrated rapper around... I'll leave it at that I think, there are far too many great rappers to list all the suggestions I could make haha.

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Originally Posted by Apple

Westcoast gangster rap? Artists like Biggie Smalls I am guessing?

Also I agree that Eminems older stuff are his best. If I love 2pac and biggie is similar then I will download his discography too, not now though my internet is going slow as it is.

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No biggie smalls is eastcoast, westcoast would consist of snoop dogg, ice cube, dr dre etc.
Tupac and biggie are similar but at the same time completely different, if you get me. :P
Im sure you'll love biggie though.

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Originally Posted by FlyingJesus

I can't imagine there ever being a time when anyone totally understands what Ghostface is on about haha



Yakoo! Maker and creator of the devil! Swine merchant, your time is near at hand. **** with me, and your time will be now. Your presence here affects the mind of my people like a fever. You, Yakoo, are the bearer of 9,999 diseases: evil, corrupt pork-chop-eating atrocities!



Nope that's East coast (which is superior) :P think he was on about people like Ice Cube and Dr Dre who do have some banging albums which are often perhaps easier to listen to than the NY style stuff, but as a lyricist I prefer East coast because they do tend to have a better lyrical style for the most part. That's not to say that you shouldn't get into the West coast too, like I say they got some great albums (AmeriKKKa's Most Wanted for one) so yeah shop around :D you like Tupac and he was West coast so quite likely you'll enjoy a few of them.
DMX was mentioned in passing earlier in the thread somewhere, getting hold of It's Dark And Hell Is Hot will let you know if you like his style as it's probably his best work, Nas you said you got the discography so that's always gonna be good listening, Doe Or Die by AZ is an amazing album from possibly the most underrated rapper around... I'll leave it at that I think, there are far too many great rappers to list all the suggestions I could make haha.

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Ok I don't know what to think about biggie, his flow is good and he has some good beats but I hate his lyrics. Being that whoppa that he was, I don't really like it when he starts mentioning food

"So we can steam on the way to the telly go fill my belly
A t-bone steak, cheese eggs and Welch's grape"

And then his favourite time of the day is his half feeding him breakfast and giving him a sponge bath in another one of his songs. I guess I just don't like biggie as a person, although I do like some of his songs. I know this might be a lot to ask but what would you say your top 5 favourite 2pac/nas/biggie songs are, just that there are so many songs to choose from and I haven't got a clue where to start. :P

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Originally Posted by FlyingJesus

I can't imagine there ever being a time when anyone totally understands what Ghostface is on about haha

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whats so difficult to understand about "scooby snack jurrasic plastic gas booby trap"?

lil wayne, i fell in love with him.
not much rap but you know.
also try eminem or kanye (not west just kanye)

NWA - Straight outta compton.

Best rap song you will ever hear.

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Originally Posted by Apple

Ok I don't know what to think about biggie, his flow is good and he has some good beats but I hate his lyrics. Being that whoppa that he was, I don't really like it when he starts mentioning food

"So we can steam on the way to the telly go fill my belly
A t-bone steak, cheese eggs and Welch's grape"

And then his favourite time of the day is his half feeding him breakfast and giving him a sponge bath in another one of his songs. I guess I just don't like biggie as a person, although I do like some of his songs. I know this might be a lot to ask but what would you say your top 5 favourite 2pac/nas/biggie songs are, just that there are so many songs to choose from and I haven't got a clue where to start. :P

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my favorite biggie song is "gimme the loot" for sure. i dont think anyone rapper has ever made a more badass song.

download machine gun funk by biggie, nice tune.