We are no longer a military power, well done Cameron you ****.
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We are no longer a military power, well done Cameron you ****.
Do you want to expand on that? Are you referring to the scrapping of the HMS Ark Royal plans? If you are it would be a good idea to specify rather than make seemingly random comments.
I have to agree, I'm not from Australia, however I am curious and want to participate in the discussion but I have no idea what you're on about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nixt
war is bad.
War is necessary.
nothing is necessary.
Breathing is necessary for survival.
I have to think this may be the Conservative compromise for where the Lib Dems compromise on tuition fees, so to be fair, I wouldn't blame the tories.
I think it's the fact that the HMS Ark Royal (newest and most up to date in terms of technology) out of the rest of three carriers I believe or maybe two is getting scrapped which includes the harrier jets as well. Which If the BBC is correct it means the UK will not have the ability to launch fighter jets from the sea, let's hope nothing bad happens from now until 2019.
Although on the plus side, the two new carriers are still going ahead. But that is probably only down to the fact that it would cost more to actual scrap them.
For survival, yes. Good observation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic Bear
The decision to cut the Armed Forces in any form is a bad one, that's for sure. Reallocation or deployment of resources makes more sense but cutting personnel and equipment is ludicrous when the army, for example, is suffering a severe shortage of soldiers in infantry regiments for example. When I first joined, the army was officially classed as a 'militia' because the number of soldiers in its command was below that of the world standard.
I fail to see how this is going to work for them politically. For a start, since the Iraq invasion up until present day popular media has been advocating increased funding for the armed forces particularly on the front line. Now they are cutting key front line support arms and removing hundreds of dedicated personnel.
we're an island and we don't need a big army.
Good to have resources at sea mind, which is what's being cut here..Quote:
Originally Posted by immense
then the people in this country shouldn't have voted in the current government. wait, the sun told them to do so. it's awfully depressing.
An Island that should have a top navy being able to defend our country which includes overseas territory within a minutes notice which is being cut.. so bye bye defense.Quote:
Originally Posted by immense
you're all so typically male.
Not so. Our forces are massively overstretched as it is when it comes to overseas deployments. Not so much now we have withdrawn from Iraq, but when you have operational deployments in Cyprus, Afghanistan, Sierra Leone, Kenya, Gibraltar and the Falklands as well as numerous other places around the world offering varying numbers of soldiers. In the event of a large scale war resulting from ongoing diplomatic unease with eastern countries we would be in a difficult position. The fact we are an island gives us a strategic advantage but in this day and age that advantage isn't massive and it plays no bearing on the fact that, should war break out, we would be facing a shortage of soldiers.Quote:
Originally Posted by immense
War is necessary for survival. If the middle east was allowed to grow they would inevitably attack western culture and start a 3rd world war. Admittedly it'd be over pretty fast due to America, but it would still be a very big problem, just like it is already due to immigration.Quote:
Originally Posted by immense
But hey I suppose you support that, don't you?
What ever happened to this once great empire. Oh wait, the war... right.
l m a o .Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic Bear
yeah, everybody who is from the middle east wants to attack western culture. how right you are.
Similar to 'the terrorists are coming', 'the East is going to attack us' is overexaggerated. We'll survive.
someone else with sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Inseriousity.
While I'm not scared of Eastern aggressiveness or any of the ilk, I still doubt this was a good decision. In the end, in the public's eyes, it's a demented indicator of things to come. Tuition fees rising and now cutting the military, I doubt this government will be revered as doing any good. I'm not saying it is good but the working class/middle class hold such sensibilities that they won't interpret these things as good things. We need to get out of the red and into the blue (see what I did there?) and these are necessary paving stones for the future.
If we ever did get attacked here somehow I don't see what use having planes on a boat will do, seems like it might be a better idea to have them here ready for defensive purposes, or if we really need to have them out in other countries I'm fairly sure we're still capable of building an airbase, it's not only the Polish who can do manual labour
They'll be known for trying to wipe out the national debt. They've got a hard job, they're not gonna be popular and quite frankly they've got massive ******** since both of them will likely be voted out in favour of Labour now, because things wern't as bad with Labour in terms of debt... but thats only because they hid it all for this government. I guess its the way you wanna look at it, I think they're doing a mint job trying to wipe out the debt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fez
You live in Scotland I thought it was illegal for your sort to support the Conservatives
Jut heard about all the cuts. All I'm saying is if countries like Argentina wanted to re take islands such as the Falklands we wouldn't be able to diddly **** about it.
You keep clinging to that belief whilst the rest of the world wakes up. Germany has already started. They don't want to integrate with us, they just want free land and resources.Quote:
Originally Posted by immense
Can I just ask, during the election weren't the conservatives slating the labour party for not providing enough support in the ways of military ships, planes, boats and weaponary and now the tories themselves are cutting this sort of thing themselves?
Clappity clap tories what else are we going to bring down now?
I dont honestly think were needing a large military at this moment, worlds not in bad shape in terms of war, minus afghanistan and terrorists, but still we dont really need a sea boat for it. If war was to start I honestly think we'd get loads in a matter of months so we can go kick ass.
It disappeared, perhaps we should bring our armed forces in line with this. We have the second/third most military expenditure, it just doesn't make sense anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neversoft
That's exactly what I was thinking. What is absolutely vital is defending Britain (Trident + RAF Jets) and supporting our current mission in Afghanistan (Troop numbers, vehicles + Chinooks) not an Aircraft carrier which really isn't that useful in either of those. It's far better that an ageing aircraft carrier is cut than the alternative of something like Trident, RAF Jets, Chinooks, Troop numbers etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingJesus
The Tories attacked Labour lots on the poor equipment they had in Afghanstan, the lack of Helicopters, SNATCH Land Rovers and poor body armour in particular rather than things such as Aircraft Carriers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starburst..x
You'll find out tomorrow what else is going down in the spending review announcements. So when you hear of "Tory cuts!" don't be surprised. Oh and also remember it's a coalition government, so if you intend on carrying on about how savage the Tories are, don't forget about the Lib Dems k? :)
So one aircraft carrier is the difference between defending them and surrendering them? Nahhhh.Quote:
Originally Posted by StefanWolves
As I'm sure you're well aware, within 24 hours most the troops all over the world could be re-positioned anywhere else in the world. Should anything kick off we would withdraw from Afghanistan almost instantly. As I've said, the cuts have been careful to allow Britain to still have defences and continue the fighting in Afghanistan. Surely you agree it's better that an old aircraft carrier gets decommissioned rather than something like Trident being scrapped or the Chinook order cancelled.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nixt
I'm sure they brought the Falklands up again some months back if anyone remembers the thread we had on it. Well they just scrapped the harriers which were our only aircraft to be able to use aircraft carriers and we will have nothing like it for around 10 years or so. I'm not currently sure what kind of equipment we have over there if that would be case of Argentina wanting it back within months time. I guess we could send in some submarines and Type 45 destroyers to solve that.Quote:
Originally Posted by StefanWolves
1300 troops, RAF Typhoons and a Navy boat are always stationed there, and that's not to say more couldn't be sent within days and the continual trident deterrent.Quote:
Originally Posted by xxMATTGxx
Not sure anyone would care.Quote:
Originally Posted by StefanWolves
Ignorance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic Bear
Just had to pick out these silly posts. Tories are scum.
Yes we do, we have various oversea territories which need protecting (namely Gibralter and the Falkland Islands).Quote:
Originally Posted by immense
As for these cuts to the military, stupid - I know. However first the blame lies foremost with the Labour Party who got us into crippling debt in the first place (the recession was worldwide, debt is a seperate issue which Labour failed to control). Secondly one must ask; why is the EU/foreign aid ringfenced rather than the military?
The idea that our military doesn't need to be massive is invalid - our military is already rather small compared to the former percentage of GDP we previously spent on the armed forces. The military budget (especially that of the Navy) needs to be greatly increased if anything - especially as we are fighting the war that is Afghanistan of which none of our politicians can give a reason to why we are fighting there.
In the event anything did kick off, we could redeploy our soldiers very quickly, correct. However first response to any large scale war involves launching aircraft from sea in order to clear the way for ground deployment. If we were required to invade a country, for the sake of argument let's just say Iran, our immediate air support would be severely inhibited by the fact we aren't able to launch from the sea. It's not likely, no, but these cuts run deep and beyond just the decommissioning of an aircraft carrier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordy
The loss of 7,000 personnel in the army, for example, overstretches an already overstretched service even further. Our overseas commitments are vast and wide - and agree or disagree with them, the current government has an obligation to ensure that the army and the other services are in a position to maintain these commitments for as long as necessary. They've just made it a hell of a lot more difficult for everyone.
In the long term, the decisions he has made in this review make sense - the increase in the number of Chinook helicopters, the decision to continue with the building of the two new aircraft carriers and so forth. Short term though, he is making the UK from a military point of a view, a laughing stock without fundamental capabilities that today all modern nations have available.
Hmm, a better approach would be to hold a Labour, Tory and Lib Dem meeting in Parliament where every member must attend, as well as every Lord. Then, you do what Guy Fawkes planned and blow it up. Simples, you don't have the Labour Party who do not understand the value of money, you won't get the Tories who lie to get into office as well as their long lost brother the Lib Dems.
Being more realistic though, cutting away from the EU would be a better option, it serves no real purpose seeing as it appears to take rather than give, the money we spend on the EU could easily do everything here - tuitions, military and, the only thing I've seen EU funding being used for, roads and new buildings. Lets face it, the EU is only there to put countries in debt, not actually help with any costs :P
An entire country saying that it doesn't work is ignorance. Why not go tell the Germans they're ignorant?Quote:
Originally Posted by immense
Im sorry, but what are they going to do?, send a fleet of fishing boats to capture the island with fishing nets?, the simple answer is No. Whilst we do need defending and need to defend places like falklands etc there is really only a very slim chance of argentina actually doing any damage.Quote:
Originally Posted by StefanWolves
As for the cuts, Do i agree with them all? No. Do they have to be done? YES ABSOLUTELY!. You can sit here and complain about this and that but at the end of the day we have a huge deficit and it needs to come down dramatically and this is through CUTS.
To those of you who say bring back labour etc well please stop and think for a minute. Who caused the defecit in the first place? LABOUR. Does labour have a plan to tackle the defecit? NO. Until they do dont even mention them as they are practically irrelevant in curing the problem when they caused it in the first place.
We do not live in Germany. England has one of the highest rates of assimilation in the world. I think that's fundamentally because none of our ancestors were actually born in England.Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic Bear